Alive! magazine and a no junk mail sign.

AudreyHepburn

prinz wrote: »

A 30 second spell on google would show questioning of the official RCC-"line" up to Cardinal level on hot topics. To accuse Catholics of not questioning anything is completely inaccurate.

True. I am sure there are some who do still take the Church's word as law but it is not accurate to say we all do.

Again though given the Church's past we can probably understand why Rob thinks that way.

Pace2008

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

To be fair, I'd imagine if question beliefs really was not taught or allowed there would not be any athiests would there?

Since when does one need permission or encouragement to question dogma? There were atheists back in times when heresy was punishable by death.

AudreyHepburn

Pace2008 wrote: »

There were atheists back in times when heresy was punishable by death.

I know that.

The point was if Catholics never questioned anything at any point in history, never knew how to,there would not have been athiests.

AudreyHepburn

Pace2008 wrote: »

Since when does one need permission or encouragement to question dogma?

I was responding to the point that Catholics are not taught to question and saying that imo the existance of athiesm disproves that.

Pace2008

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I know that.

The point was if Catholics never questioned anything at any point in history, never knew how to,there would not have been athiests.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I was responding to the point that Catholics are not taught to question and saying that imo the existance of athiesm disproves that.

Curiosity is not acquired, it is an innate human characteristic, and combined with the free will apparently bestowed on us by God it is inevitable that people will question what they are taught.

AudreyHepburn

Pace2008 wrote: »

Curiosity is not acquired, it is an innate human characteristic and combined with the free will apparently bestowed on us by God it is inevitable that people will question what they are taught.

You're missing my point completely.

Pace2008

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

You're missing my point completely.

You've actually made two separate points in the preceding posts:

The point was if Catholics never questioned anything at any point in history, never knew how to,there would not have been athiests.

This suggests that people who considered themselves Catholic have questioned their beliefs throughout history. This goes without saying - Catholics are human (despite popular opinion on this forum) and humans are naturally curious and inquisitive. There will always be those who won't accept a prescribed worldview and will endeavour to find their own.

I was responding to the point that Catholics are not taught to question and saying that imo the existance of athiesm disproves that.

This suggests it is the Church's encouragement that leads people to question their beliefs. I'd disagree, as unlike other sects of Christianity, the Catholic Church has a prescribed doctrine that people will nonetheless question for the reasons stated above.

robindch

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

But in my personal experience no Catholic I know, myself included, has ever been told not to question things nor have they never been told how to question.

The kind of splendiferous misinterpretation that your excellent self and prinz are experiencing is symptomatic of the problem I'm taking about

It's very simple really.

I'm not saying that christians do not ask questions. Let me repeat that. I am not saying that christians do not ask questions.

I am saying -- indeed I think I've said it several times now -- that christians in the main are NOT ENCOURAGED to ask questions about a relatively wide range of topics and they are not encouraged to seek out or explore alternate views.

It's the difference between permitting questions and encouraging questions, particularly the kind of structural philosophical, epistemological and evidential questions which lead to people developing the kind of independent thinking which leads to a decline or a loss of religious belief.

Incidentally, the pope agrees that catholics should be kept in the dark:

Bishop Ratzinger, in 1979 wrote:

The christian believer is a simple person: bishops should protect the faith of their little people against the power of intellectuals.

All I'm doing is pointing out that what the pope wants is what's actually happening.

prinz

robindch wrote: »

I am saying -- indeed I think I've said it several times now -- that christians in the main are NOT ENCOURAGED to ask questions about a relatively wide range of topics and they are not encouraged to seek out or explore alternate views..

..yet you have no back up whatsoever... and you've been corrected. I have discussed a massive range of topics with members of the clergy... from abortion to music. No one ever discouraged me from asking questions and debating answers. I have yet to see anything from the RCC telling me not to question x or y. If you are going down the doctine and dogma route then it's the height of f*cking childishness to berate the Roman Catholic Church for not encouraging something which directly contradicts the tenets of the faith. Philosphy is encouraged. For some reason you seem to rue the fact that the RCC doesn't encourage people to lose their faith.

robindch wrote: »

Incidentally, the pope agrees that catholics should be kept in the dark:All I'm doing is pointing out that what the pope wants is what's actually happening.

The little bit of respect I was holding on to is gone. 1979 :rolleyes: Afraid to even show the context?

You really are smarter than that.

Nodin

prinz wrote: »

..yet you have no back up whatsoever... and you've been corrected. I have discussed a massive range of topics with members of the clergy... from abortion to music. No one ever discouraged me from asking questions and debating answers. I have yet to see anything from the RCC telling me not to question x or y............

So you're saying that the RCC no longer regards itself as the sole interpreter of scripture? I missed that announcement meself....

prinz

Nodin wrote: »

So you're saying that the RCC no longer regards itself as the sole interpreter of scripture? I missed that announcement meself....

Apparently you missed what I actually wrote so that wouldn't suprise me.

Nodin

prinz wrote: »

Apparently you missed what I actually wrote so that wouldn't suprise me.

You don't think claiming ultimate authority over whats supposed to be the 'master plan' is a big deal then...?

AudreyHepburn

robindch wrote: »

The kind of splendiferous misinterpretation that your excellent self and prinz are experiencing is symptomatic of the problem I'm taking about

It's very simple really.

I'm not saying that christians do not ask questions. Let me repeat that. I am not saying that christians do not ask questions.

I am saying -- indeed I think I've said it several times now -- that christians in the main are NOT ENCOURAGED to ask questions about a relatively wide range of topics and they are not encouraged to seek out or explore alternate views.

It's the difference between permitting questions and encouraging questions, particularly the kind of structural philosophical, epistemological and evidential questions which lead to people developing the kind of independent thinking which leads to a decline or a loss of religious belief.

Incidentally, the pope agrees that catholics should be kept in the dark:All I'm doing is pointing out that what the pope wants is what's actually happening.

But it isn't that's the whole point I am trying to make.

If it was happening do you think Prinz or I or any of the other Catholics on Boards would be here debating and discussing and questioning?

Your quote was from 1979. And yes back then perhaps questioning was not encouraged.

But this is 2010. The Church, contrary to popular belief, has changed a lot and I for one have never heard a Priest tell a member of his congregation not to question things nor have I met a Catholic who has not been taught how to question.

BeatNikDub

I have emailed these folks 6 times, left 2 voice messages and called several times during their opening office hours of 9-10.30am (!!!!) and have still yet to get a reply to confirm I am off their distribution list.

I do not want to receive this and should not have to.

Very aggravating.

Celly Smunt

BeatNikDub wrote: »

I have emailed these folks 6 times, left 2 voice messages and called several times during their opening office hours of 9-10.30am (!!!!) and have still yet to get a reply to confirm I am off their distribution list.

I do not want to receive this and should not have to.

Very aggravating.

Send a fuck load pro-choice flyers to them.

corktina

it's alive! it's back from the dead after three years...it's a Miracle!

kylith

BeatNikDub wrote: »

I have emailed these folks 6 times, left 2 voice messages and called several times during their opening office hours of 9-10.30am (!!!!) and have still yet to get a reply to confirm I am off their distribution list.

I do not want to receive this and should not have to.

Very aggravating.

You're not on a distribution list; they put one through every door. I've been trying to find out if 'no junk mail' signs cover free papers (I too am sick of having that hate-filled rag put through my door), but I haven't been able to find anything either way.

lazygal

Junk mail is classed as advertising - so it can be ignored.


What you need is a sign saying 'Addressed mail only' = this means only mail sent to you as a named person at that address can be put in the letterbox. Ours cut the junk by 100%.

super_furry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPIwsAW2Q0w

Ever single time I see this topic bumped, I immediately get this song stuck in my head for the next few hours. Now you lot can suffer too.

kylith

lazygal wrote: »

Junk mail is classed as advertising - so it can be ignored.


What you need is a sign saying 'Addressed mail only' = this means only mail sent to you as a named person at that address can be put in the letterbox. Ours cut the junk by 100%.

Deadly, will get one of those so. Thanks.

Pumpkinseeds

We usually just file it under bin. I've never actually read it. It's usually delivered to us by some old chap and it probably gets him out of the house for a few hours and gives him something to do. The last issue came in handy for wrapping up some broken glass, I had to dig through the recycle bin first though.

spacetweek

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

But this is 2010. The Church, contrary to popular belief, has changed a lot and I for one have never heard a Priest tell a member of his congregation not to question things nor have I met a Catholic who has not been taught how to question.

The whole point of Catholicism is that it isn't meant to change or evolve. That is the primary difference between Catholics and Protestants.

Ghost Buster

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

But it isn't that's the whole point I am trying to make.

If it was happening do you think Prinz or I or any of the other Catholics on Boards would be here debating and discussing and questioning?

Your quote was from 1979. And yes back then perhaps questioning was not encouraged.

But this is 2010. The Church, contrary to popular belief, has changed a lot and I for one have never heard a Priest tell a member of his congregation not to question things nor have I met a Catholic who has not been taught how to question.

Wouldn't you think God and his son/self would have set the dam religion up complete in the first place. Very shoddy work from a super-being and the people he has working under His guidance.

BeardySi

Not sure if it works the same South of the border, but if I get crap when there's a clear sign saying "no junk mail/newspapers" I'll post it back to them without a stamp, with a note explaining why it's been sent back...

Royal Mail then charge them postage + a £1 handling fee....

shankespony

Nice one the old woman with the plastic rain thing on her head like Mrs Doyle ignores my sign aswell, am afraid to tackle her about it in case I offend or she kicks my butt. so give it a quick glance then light my fire!