Alive! magazine and a no junk mail sign.

bleg

Oranage2 wrote: »

Why don't you stop being such a moan bag and just throw it in the bin instead of throwing a hissy fit.

These guys are only trying to do a job and is it really that bad when you consider that people are getting employment out of this? Would it be better if they were on the Dole?

They're volunteers.

Neyite

so, the people who deliver Alive! dont consider it junk, and the chuggers who deliver for charities dont consider their stuff junk, im guessing the politicians are of the same mind... what if i sell really, really excellent pizza, i might consider that leaflet dropping people about my really excellent pizza is not junk? where is the line?

faceman

wild_cat wrote: »

Have you ever read alive?!

Anyone that gives an ounce of their time to support/volunteer in distributing the hate that they preach with that rag should be called such.

I havent read alive, and from the sounds of things in the thread from those you have read it, i dont want to. But i would treat that crap that comes through my door the same way i treat the Northside/Southside People or whatever else comes through the door that i dont want, i lash it in the recycling bin.

Calling her scum is just unnecessary and brings you down to their level.

robindch

greendom wrote: »

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it

There are plenty of laws abridging the right to say and publish what one wants. And regardless of the reality of the law, there's a more basic responsibility on the behalf of the publisher not to abuse the right of "free speech" by publishing what the great Justice Holmes was referring to here:

Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote:

The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic.

In the case of, for example, of the Lisbon Treaty, the Thoughts of Chairman McKevitt managed (somehow) to be even more extreme than Coir's tendentious drivel. And from my own personal experience, McKevitt certainly did influence the correct and normal process of democracy in this country by shouting "fire" in a heated memespace.

BTW, McKevitt's rag can be downloaded here:

http://www.alive.ie/archives.php

for anybody who's interested.

prinz

faceman wrote: »

Calling her scum is just unnecessary and brings you down to their level.

+1. Something strikes me that the altercation didn't quite go exactly as claimed up to that point. From one side anyway...

robindch wrote: »

And from my own personal experience, McKevitt certainly did influence the correct and normal process of democracy in this country by shouting "fire" in a heated memespace..

I'd say he had about as much influence as Nigel Farage, that is to say none whatsoever with anyone capable of stringing a coherent sentence together... then again everyone was entitled to say their piece.

Nodin

I had no idea.....

The Irish branch of the pro-abortion, homosexualist agency issued a statement that "it is Amnesty International's policy not to comment on specific salary levels for any member of staff."

http://www.alive.ie/story2.php

"homosexualist" eh?

Odysseus

ScumLord wrote: »

Of course he hasn't read it. Not even the people who write it have read it, they just close their eyes and mash away at the keyboard the gibberish that's left on the page is always somehow religious.

To anyone who has never read it, I would suggest reading it. It is not delivered to my home thankfully, but it was delivered to an ex's of mine. I used to read it when I had really really nothing to do. I do think it would be important for someone who has never read it; only to be aware of the content of it.

The stuff that makes it to print in that rag is terrible, I will give it the benefit of saying there must a an editorial process involved, if so I can only imagine how these people really think on the topics they write, really I would question anyone a person's mental abilities if the write for that paper. The content of it is actually quite disturbing if you take a bit of time to think on it.

Whilst I believe in the of free expression of beliefs and speech, I find it hard to be objective when I see such hate being expressed.

Nodin

Odysseus wrote: »

The stuff that makes it to print in that rag is terrible, I will give it the benefit of saying there must a an editorial process involved, if so I can only imagine how these people really think on the topics they write, ........

The 'brain storming' sessions must be gas....

'rawrrr...gays..rawrrr..liberals..rawwrrrr....lefties..rawwrrr..bra-wavin feminist pill poppers...'

bleg

I was given a copy by a patient before, and I decided to keep it and have a read of it. I thought it was absolutely hilarious. They were calling all the political parties in Ireland extreme left wing. The thing was full of conjecture, inconsistencies and inaccuracies. I think there is an audience for this tripe out there, but I don't see Alive! changing the face of our society any time soon. Let them have their little paper and let's all have a good laugh at them.

prinz

Nodin wrote: »

The 'brain storming' sessions must be gas....
'rawrrr...gays..rawrrr..liberals..rawwrrrr....lefties..rawwrrr..bra-wavin feminist pill poppers...'

I'm checking my kitchen for bugs when I get home <.< >.> :pac:

In seriousness most of the time the majority of the content seems to be relatively harmless; film reviews, book reviews; lonely hearts; etc. The rest is straight out of the bottom drawer rubbish.

Jamiekelly

Lol I just read one of the "Dumbag" articles for the laugh.
The title was "Beware! Education damages your mind"
Do I need to say more? :rolleyes:

prinz

Jamiekelly wrote: »

The title was "Beware! Education damages your mind"
Do I need to say more? :rolleyes:

Yes actually you do, because usually those pieces are tongue in cheek and satirical. Link the piece perhaps.

Bucklesman

prinz wrote: »

Yes actually you do, because usually those pieces are tongue in cheek and satirical. Link the piece perhaps.

Poe's law to be honest.

robindch

prinz wrote: »

I'd say he had about as much influence as Nigel Farage, that is to say none whatsoever with anyone capable of stringing a coherent sentence together

The issue wasn't whether he was influencing intelligent people, but whether he was influencing the election by telling outright lies to catholics who, let's be blunt here, are not taught to question what priests like Chairman McKevitt say.

Jamiekelly wrote: »

Lol I just read one of the "Dumbag" articles for the laugh. The title was "Beware! Education damages your mind"

Given that Ratzinger is quoted from 1979 as having said:

Ratzinger wrote:

“The christian believer is a simple person: bishops should protect the faith of their little people against the power of intellectuals.”

...I'd imagine that could well be church policy :rolleyes:

prinz

robindch wrote: »

The issue wasn't whether he was influencing intelligent people, but whether he was influencing the election by telling outright lies to catholics who, let's be blunt here, are not taught to question what priests like Chairman McKevitt say.

BS. Not even worth responding too. You should also note that the official hierarchy in the Irish Catholic Church found no issue with the Lisbon Treaty whatsoever IIRC and made clear they had no grounds for advising Irish Catholics to vote against it. Anything that McKevitt spouts is his own private business. Funnily enough I don't know a single Irish Catholic who takes what Alive! has to say as unquestionable truth. There's a reason they are usually left untouched, even in Catholic churches.

But of course Catholics aren't intelligent enough to find out anything for themselves...

I suppose the next time some ol' biddy is on Joe Duffy to complain about something Fr Brian D'arcy had to say you'll be amazed, because, like, an Irish Catholic has never questioned something a priest had to say before........ever..........


I used to have respect for you as a poster, while not always agreeing with you. The last few days, have seen that ebb away.

robindch

prinz wrote: »

I don't know a single Irish Catholic who takes what Alive! has to say as unquestionable truth.

One of the older members of my extended family does and frankly, it's very upsetting and frequently almost frightening to see her fears and hatreds being stoked by McKevitt. Monthly.

Over one memorably awful dinner two years back, this woman shrieked that it was the job of my extended family to outbreed the muslims (several non-Irish were present) and how would we ever do that if we voted in the Lisbon Treaty which would force abortion onto Ireland. And then exited the room in floods of tears.

If you haven't seen what happens when people's mental ability declines with age, and when they surround themselves with hate-rags like McKevitt's, then I quite understand why you might want to dismiss what I'm saying.

prinz

robindch wrote: »

One of the older members of my extended family does and frankly, it's very upsetting and frequently almost frightening to see her fears and hatreds being stoked by McKevitt. Monthly. Over one memorably awful dinner two years back, this woman shrieked that it was the job of my extended family to outbreed the muslims (several non-Irish were present) and how would we ever do that if we voted in the Lisbon Treaty which would force abortion onto Ireland. And then exited the room in floods of tears. If you haven't seen what happens when people's mental ability declines with age, and when they surround themselves with hate-rags like McKevitt's, then I quite understand why you might want to dismiss what I'm saying.

tbh the same could go for someone reading Farage's UKIP leaflets, including a nice picture of an actual turkey IIRC in case you couldn't quite read. I doubt either had any meaningful effect at the end of the day.

Nice little change though, from influencing 'Catholics' to the aged and mentally infirm, saturated in Alive!... that's a seismic shift. What about the younger, mentally able Catholics..... I dismissed what you were saying because it was outlandish. Perhaps you'd like to reign it in, to who you were actually referrring to? Personally, as I side, I don't know a single person who puts any store whatsoever in any sort of anything of a political/serious nature. Infact I've even heard a priest wonder aloud why they bother leaving the papers at the back of his church at all, because so few are taken/read.

robindch

prinz wrote: »

Nice little change though, from influencing 'Catholics' to the aged and mentally infirm, saturated in Alive!... that's a seismic shift.

Not if you actually read the original post where I explicitly pointed out that I was talking "from my own personal experience" (see the fourth paragraph)

prinz

robindch wrote: »

Not if you actually read the original post where I explicitly pointed out that I was talking "from my own personal experience" (see the fourth paragraph)

.......on to the next post where Catholics aren't taught to question priests? Supposed that just refers to this one lady too does it? Claimed as yourself to be church policy.... let's not pretend that was anything but applied to all Catholics.

If I had a post where I said in own personal experience this atheist I met was an ass, and a couple of posts later described all atheists as ignorant buffoons.. you'd be ok with that?

robindch

prinz wrote: »

.......on to the next post where Catholics aren't taught to question priests?

Are you saying that they are taught and expected to question priests?

prinz

robindch wrote: »

Are you saying that they are taught and expected to question priests?

Yes. Much as you'd like to pretend they weren't, the days of the dictatorial priests are gone. You can ask a priest anything you like, or question his reasoning on anything.

starlit

Burn the Alive newspaper alive everytime you get it in the letterbox. Maybe just write a note saying you will sue alive newspaper for those who are sending this junk mail which is alive. Its a load of tripe if you ask me, pure cult stuff in it. Utter rubbish what is written in it. Luckily it doesn't be posted to the house but my mam can get it free from the back of the church after mass. I just feel like throwing it away everytime I see it, it makes me cringe to just look at the front page. The only comic value is the whole letter cac. Talk about brainwashing! Could you not contact the gardai or something they might be able to do something about it OP.

starlit

prinz wrote: »

Yes. Much as you'd like to pretend they weren't, the days of the dictatorial priests are gone. You can ask a priest anything you like, or question his reasoning on anything.

I might be mistaken but it is still the case today, there are still quiet a few dictatorial priests out there! Especially of those approaching retirement! There are still priests out there that favour talking with men than women why that is I cannot understand more or less treating women as second class citizens which is wrong in my eyes. The more modern ones aren't, you are right you can speak to them about anything. Its the modern ones you need to give credit to not those dictatorial priests like oohh lets see can I name one which is in fact the Pope!

prinz

snuggles285 wrote: »

I might be mistaken but it is still the case today, there are still quiet a few dictatorial priests out there! Especially of those approaching retirement! There are still priests out there that favour talking with men than women why that is I cannot understand more or less treating women as second class citizens which is wrong in my eyes. The more modern ones aren't, you are right you can speak to them about anything. Its the modern ones you need to give credit to not those dictatorial priests like oohh lets see can I name one which is in fact the Pope!

Could be a some knocking about. I only knew of one who is retired a few years now..probably for his own benefit before someone clobbered him. Tosser.

However original point remains, Catholics are not taught to accept every word from a priest on every subject without question.

robindch

prinz wrote: »

Much as you'd like to pretend they weren't, the days of the dictatorial priests are gone. You can ask a priest anything you like, or question his reasoning on anything.

Sheesh, prinz, are you reading any of my posts today -- I'm almost in despair

I didn't say that catholics weren't allowed to ask questions, I said that they are not taught to ask questions. And particularly -- and this is relevant to Chairman McKevitt's case -- his readers are not encouraged or expected to seek out or explore alternate perspectives, or to cast the slightest shadow of doubt upon the perfect sunlight of McKevitt's own silly or hateful points of view.

It's the difference between teaching somebody what to think, and teaching them how to think. Religious teachers in general, and catholics in particular, tend to the former unfortunately (for the obvious reason that they have a fixed 'what' to communicate and propagate, rather than a flexible worldview in which every 'what' is open to change).

prinz

robindch wrote: »

Sheesh, prinz, are you reading any of my posts today -- I'm almost in despair I didn't say that catholics weren't allowed to ask questions, I said that they are not taught to ask questions.

..and you'd be wrong. Questions are encouraged.

robindch

prinz wrote: »

Questions are encouraged.

In what specific areas and by whom?

prinz

robindch wrote: »

In what specific areas and by whom?

Interior decorating and manicure techniques. :rolleyes:

AudreyHepburn

Robindch, while I do understand why you might think Catholics are not thought to question, given the Church's past, the days when the Priest's word was law are long gone whether you like it or not.

Again I do understand why you might think otherwise.

But in my personal experience no Catholic I know, myself included, has ever been told not to question things nor have they never been told how to question.

To be fair, I'd imagine if question beliefs really was not taught or allowed there would not be any athiests would there?

prinz

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Robindch, while I do understand why you might think Catholics are not thought to question...

A 30 second spell on google would show questioning of the official RCC-"line" up to Cardinal level on hot topics. To accuse Catholics of not questioning anything is completely inaccurate.