Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Tox56

siltirocker wrote: »

I think McCarthy has arguably been the best Irish lock this season and he should be involved with the national team this spring.

Definitely.

jacothelad

profitius wrote: »

Archer was marching him backwards in the first half remember. Credit to McAllister for being cute enough to change things in the second half. Archer couldn't cope but he is still 22 years old which is young for a prop.

I'm not calling for Archer to be in the Ireland A squad or anything I just think its too early to write him off. He did have some good performances before the Ospreys match.

"Archer was marching him backwards in the first half remember." Not true at all. They were having a pretty good contest which Archer possibly shaded. There was certainly no 'marching backwards' ..........except in the second half, where there was plenty. I'm not writing him off at all, just saying what I see and I see a poor scrummager who looks unfit. Archer will be 24 this month, about 18 months older than McAllister who let's face it has a long way to go himself. If I was a betting man I wouldn't put my money on Archer any time soon. He looks to be in the Mushy school of props..

I feel the problem surrounding our props is a real lack of will or wit on the part of some of the provinces to realise that while scrums are less important than they once were, they can still be a teams downfall. Easy turnovers, field position, penalty points and penalty tries and yellow cards for good scrums over poor ones.

Ulster for example don't have a scrum coach at all. Botha did the job and Reggie did a bit when Williams was coach. Maybe he, Feek and Botha can help Archer out. Given B.J.s injury history - 43 games in 3 seasons at Ulster, Munster are going to need Archer or someone to step up.

ed7890

jacothelad wrote: »

He didn't 'win' penalties. 2 penalties were awarded for binding offences and one when the Ulster scrum went tits up. If you consider that inexperience is a factor, consider also then that the guy who mullered him in the second half is younger and even less experienced.

McAlister is younger, but he's actually got a fair bit more experience then Archer. Archer has only started 9 pro12 games so far. Compare that to Hagan, who is a year older and has 50-odd games for Connacht. Archer has a lot of learning to do, but not being perfect after 9 games is no sin.

jacothelad wrote:

Having seen Archer a few times this season getting royally humped by pretty average looseheads

The only other one who get him trouble so far was Duncan Jones, a well experienced prop at international level.

I'd say fitness did come against him in the game at the weekend, he was doing a ton of work around the pitch, and was wrecked in the end and couldn't do anything against McAlister. He's got a good bit to learn, this defo isn't the season for him to be pushing onto Ireland As, but lets not write off the guy so fast.

jacothelad

ed7890 wrote: »

McAlister is younger, but he's actually got a fair bit more experience then Archer. Archer has only started 9 pro12 games so far.

Yeah! McAllister is a lot more experienced. He's started 12 Pro12 games. To be fair, tight head is a more demanding position. It's sometimes easier to get away with it at loose head.

ed7890

jacothelad wrote: »

Yeah! McAllister is a lot more experienced. He's started 12 Pro12 games. To be fair, tight head is a more demanding position. It's sometimes easier to get away with it at loose head.

He's gotten a run out at Heineken Cup level as well, 1 start and 6 games off the bench.

Hopefully this time next year Archer will have learned a lot, and won't be caught out as much. I wouldn't guarantee it, but I'm willing to be patient to give a chance to a guy who's just starting out, rather then somebody like Mushy who had over 100 games at a good level and was still getting turned upside-down too easily.

If he can learn to scrum better, Archer is fairly handy around the pitch. He's good at making yards, and does a good bit of defensive work. He had the highest number of tackles for Munster the last day (according to EspnScrum anyway, if you trust them).

CIARAN_BOYLE

New central contract for POC
http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/25280.php

siltirocker

Tox56 wrote: »

Definitely.

Who is playing better rugby in the second row at the moment. POC? Maybe? Tuohy? Good stuff but hardly not better than Macca at the moment. Who else?

thomond2006

POC has been immense, but then comparing any lock to him is harsh!

Tox56

siltirocker wrote: »

Who is playing better rugby in the second row at the moment. POC? Maybe? Tuohy? Good stuff but hardly not better than Macca at the moment. Who else?

I was principally referring to POC, but throw Tuohy in there too.

part time punk

Off topic, although second row related ... I was given Donncha O'Callaghans autobiog (Joking Apart) at Xmas and just finished it the other day. It's an enjoyable enough and easy read, maybe it pulls a few punches given that he's still playing with a lot of the people involved and its maybe a bit cautious and guarded. I haven't read Bernard Jackman's biog although I know it caused a bit of a stir. Anyway are there any other good rugby books/bios out there that might shed a bit more light into life as a pro player? Cheers

totallegend

part time punk wrote: »

Off topic, although second row related ... I was given Donncha O'Callaghans autobiog (Joking Apart) at Xmas and just finished it the other day. It's an enjoyable enough and easy read, maybe it pulls a few punches given that he's still playing with a lot of the people involved and its maybe a bit cautious and guarded. I haven't read Bernard Jackman's biog although I know it caused a bit of a stir. Anyway are there any other good rugby books/bios out there that might shed a bit more light into life as a pro player? Cheers

Don't go near Jackman's book, full discussion on this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75014278
To update it a bit, 'Engage' by Paul Kimmage was recently named Sports Book of the Year by 'Off the Ball' on Newstalk.

vinny chase

totallegend wrote: »

Don't go near Jackman's book, full discussion on this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75014278
To update it a bit, 'Engage' by Paul Kimmage was recently named Sports Book of the Year by 'Off the Ball' on Newstalk.

I read 'Engage' over Christmas and thought it was a great read.

Brendan97

part time punk wrote: »

Off topic, although second row related ... I was given Donncha O'Callaghans autobiog (Joking Apart) at Xmas and just finished it the other day. It's an enjoyable enough and easy read, maybe it pulls a few punches given that he's still playing with a lot of the people involved and its maybe a bit cautious and guarded. I haven't read Bernard Jackman's biog although I know it caused a bit of a stir. Anyway are there any other good rugby books/bios out there that might shed a bit more light into life as a pro player? Cheers

I read Donncha O'Callaghan's book it was fairly good

porterbelly

siltirocker wrote: »

I think McCarthy has arguably been the best Irish lock this season and he should be involved with the national team this spring.

Correct, but we all know the drill

O'Callaghan or Ryan as 1st choice alongside POC, with the other as sub and Cullen as backup

Effectively admitting we have a problem at lock when we don't.

Tuohy and McCarthy along with POC are the top 3 locks we have.

part time punk

totallegend wrote: »

Don't go near Jackman's book, full discussion on this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75014278
To update it a bit, 'Engage' by Paul Kimmage was recently named Sports Book of the Year by 'Off the Ball' on Newstalk.

Cheers, was convinced I'd done a good boards search already, obviously not though. Must have a look at Engage

durkadurka

Has anyone read Leo Cullens book? I had a read over Christmas. It was ok as a diary of the season but I thought he made a bags of describing the HEC final. He did it through the scrums. The legendary half time discussion was very interesting though.

Particularly that they were shouting the same thing as a mere mortal such as I : "Hold Onto the Fcuking ball"!

CatFromHue

durkadurka wrote: »

Has anyone read Leo Cullens book? I had a read over Christmas. It was ok as a diary of the season but I thought he made a bags of describing the HEC final. He did it through the scrums. The legendary half time discussion was very interesting though.

Particularly that they were shouting the same thing as a mere mortal such as I : "Hold Onto the Fcuking ball"!

After the unfulfilled potential of both Quinlans and Jackmans books I've been staying away from rugby books altogether.

CatFromHue

Irish snub NZ game plan

Ireland have rejected New Zealand's request to play two midweek games on their tour there in June which includes three Tests.

The NZ union had hoped Ireland would play midweek games against the Maori -- who beat Ireland in Rotorua on the 2010 tour -- and a Super 15 franchise, in addition to facing the All Blacks on three straight Saturdays.

"It's for logistical as well as playing reasons," an IRFU spokesman said last week. "We would have had to move around to play the midweek games and we want to focus on the Test series."

Ireland have never played three Tests in New Zealand -- or any other single country -- before and the New Zealanders had hoped they would agree to go all out with top-of-the-range midweek games rather than second division provinces. Super Rugby will be suspended during the June window so it would have been perfect for the Kiwis to give some of those players international opposition.

"It wasn't so much about the money -- we wouldn't have made much out of it anyway," a New Zealand source said last week. "It just would have fitted in nicely for us and added to the tour. But we absolutely understand why Ireland don't want to go ahead with it."

Meanwhile Paul McNaughton's replacement as Ireland manager is expected to be named in the next fortnight.

It is understood four candidates were interviewed last week by an interview panel comprised of chief executive Philip Browne, management committee chairman Finbarr Crowley, and chairman of the representative games committee Martin O'Sullivan. Declan Kidney will have an input in selecting the new manager.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/irish-snub-nz-game-plan-2982625.html

---

I can't help feel by not playing mid week games we are missing a great opportunity. The itinery is below with games in Auckland, Christchurch, and Hamilton.

Sat 9th Jun 12 New Zealand v Ireland Eden Park (Auck)
Sat 16th Jun 12 New Zealand v Ireland Rugby League Park (Chch)
Sat 23rd Jun 12 New Zealand v Ireland Waikato Stadium (Hamilton)

The Maori usually play in Rotorua which is 109Km from Hamilton. The team could have based themselves in Hamilton for the final test and still played the game in Rotorua.

Auckland and Chch are home to the Auckland Blues and the Canterbury Crusaders. Both of these would have given the Irish team a good run out (or more!) and could still have been played in the same city as the test match on the weekend.

Considering we play a game against the BaBas in Gloucester before we fly out (that's correct Gloucester in England) which will more than likely be a weakened Irish team. I don't see the point of this game if we're not going to play any mid week games in NZ. I mean what can be learned from it. The team will have little training before hand and no one knows what the BaBas will be like. By playing this game it seems to contradict the reasons for not playing the mid week games in NZ.

There is only one A game this season but if we played mid week games in NZ there would be three, well four including the BaBa game. So much could be answered by playing these games.

In short I'm and :mad: at this.

irishbucsfan

If we played midweek games then Declan Kidney would have to acknowledge the existence of young and talented Irish rugby players. That would be a catastrophe.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If we played midweek games then Declan Kidney would have to acknowledge the existence of young and talented Irish rugby players. That would be a catastrophe.

It would also mean we may be able to identify 2 people in each (or most) positions on the field. And we can't be having that...can we?

iuyfiuuffbnouygiougyictifoccoc

****

GerM

Do we have the resources to bring a large enough squad to deal with 6 games in 3 weeks? We would need about 35-40 players when you factor in injuries and fatigue. It would also cause major disruption to the test match plans. One game against the Maoris would have been nice but I don't think we'd be able to do a full, 6 game tour. The players would be in bits. We got through about 30 players in a 3 game tour in 2010 and ended up putting out completely patched up sides. End of a long season and the players will have enough on their plates without a glut of midweek matches.

danthefan

GerM wrote: »

Do we have the resources to bring a large enough squad to deal with 6 games in 3 weeks? We would need about 35-40 players when you factor in injuries and fatigue. It would also cause major disruption to the test match plans. One game against the Maoris would have been nice but I don't think we'd be able to do a full, 6 game tour. The players would be in bits. We got through about 30 players in a 3 game tour in 2010 and ended up putting out completely patched up sides. End of a long season and the players will have enough on their plates without a glut of midweek matches.

There was a massive number of injuries before than 2010 tour even left Ireland.

And it would be 5 games not 6 surely?

GerM

danthefan wrote: »

There was a massive number of injuries before than 2010 tour even left Ireland.

And it would be 5 games not 6 surely?

Duh. Yes. It would be five, of course.

There were several injuries before travelling but we shipped another glut out there. We lost our entire back row between the tests and MOD had to go off injured too but recovered for the Australia match. Fogarty got injured out there. Hayes pulled out just before the NZ test too from memory. We'd need to bring a big squad for that sort of commitment and I'm sure resources came into the equation when rejecting the idea.

irishbucsfan

We could bring a 38 man squad of

Healy, Wilkinson, Court, Ross, Hagan, McGrath, Best, Cronin, Varley, POC, Ryan, Toner, Tuohy, McCarthy, McLoughlin, Ferris, O'Brien, Ryan, O'Mahoney, Heaslip, Reddan, Murray, Marshall, Sexton, O'Gara, Madigan, Fitzgerald, Earls, Bowe, Gilroy, Trimble, D'Arcy, McFadden, O'Malley, Spence, Griffin, Kearney, Jones

And have an A team of:

Wilkinson, Cronin, Hagan, Toner, Tuohy, McLoughlin, Ryan, O'Brien, Marshall, Madigan, Trimble, McFadden, Griffin, Gilroy, Jones

Varley, McGrath, McCarthy, O'Mahoney. Murray, O'Gara, Spence

Varley,
That A team would let us see:
- Depth in the front row in case of future injuries, including seeing the development of Cronin and Hagan after a season working closely with Greg Feek. Wilkinson will probably be playing for Munster or Ulster in the near-future as well imo (Irish qualified prop $$$)
- A potential future second row partnership of Toner and Tuohy, who would show a great mix of lineout superiority, ball carrying, and work rate.
- O'Brien as an 8, alsongside a more natural openside, to see how it works out.
- Madigan rewarded for his form playing beside a 9 who is used to playing beside an attacking 10 and in fine form himself (although erratic).
- Let's see if McFadden can start to show himself as a 12. Also see how Griffin gets on playing with a better 10 and with better support, would be very exciting.
- Gilroy on the wing, has really setlled into the Ulster team and has a great future.
- Jones at fullback, let's not forget how impressive he was last August.... we need a natural fullback to cover Kearney.


Instead of discovering all that about our fringe players, we'll see the same old team playing the same old rugby. In terms of logistics, I find it extremely hard to believe the team would have trouble accommodating a couple of extra players given the size of these touring parties (a few blazers clinging on to their plane seats perhaps).

CatFromHue

GerM wrote: »

Do we have the resources to bring a large enough squad to deal with 6 games in 3 weeks? We would need about 35-40 players when you factor in injuries and fatigue. It would also cause major disruption to the test match plans. One game against the Maoris would have been nice but I don't think we'd be able to do a full, 6 game tour. The players would be in bits. We got through about 30 players in a 3 game tour in 2010 and ended up putting out completely patched up sides. End of a long season and the players will have enough on their plates without a glut of midweek matches.

Considering Irish teams have made up 3 of the 4 finalists ever in the Pro 12, won it the two seasons previous to the play offs, and looking at how well they're doing at the moment it's safe to say we'll have at least one team in the final in May. The BaBa game is on Tuesday 29 May which is 3 days after the Pro 12 final. So why is this game being played? It doesn't add up to say player welfare/logistically reasons stop the mid week games in NZ yet this game goes ahead. It's in England as well! The tour to NZ was agreed long before the BaBa game was scheduled too.

For the tour anyway we'd have to bring 30 to 32 players. Considering the match day squad will be 22 that leaves 8 to 10 players who will more than likely get very little to no game time what so ever. Yes by bringing the extra A team players makes the tour pretty big but it could be very benefical in that more players get more game time. It would answer so many questions about player capabilities.

This used to be the format that touring teams always took so just because the game is now professional shouldn't stop this.

Also one of the reasons the Churchill Cup is no longer run is because of the 3 test June tours.

CIARAN_BOYLE

GerM wrote: »

Duh. Yes. It would be five, of course.

There were several injuries before travelling but we shipped another glut out there. We lost our entire back row between the tests and MOD had to go off injured too but recovered for the Australia match. Fogarty got injured out there. Hayes pulled out just before the NZ test too from memory. We'd need to bring a big squad for that sort of commitment and I'm sure resources came into the equation when rejecting the idea.

It is mentioned in last years annual report that bringing an extended squad for the tour last year was expensive

tolosenc

Deleted User wrote: »

iuyfiuuffbnouygiougyictifoccoc

****

My sentiments exactly.

thomond2006

Knowing Kidney, there will be 5/6 players in NZ that won't play any rugby at all.

GerM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Knowing Kidney, there will be 5/6 players in NZ that won't play any rugby at all.

Hopefully, with three tests, he'll try a few new combinations for one of the games. We know NZ are going to try a few different things and it's going to be their first game under Hansen so he'll be looking for guys to put their hands up. They won't be at full strength for all the games.

I'd like to think anyone that travels will at least feature in one match day squad. Would like to see DK use one of the games to try a few new things such as an alternate centre combination, give Cronin a start, mix up the back three significantly, allow someone like POM a shot at the big time and, at a stretch, give someone like Madigan a debut from the bench if he continues to develop.