Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

thomond2006

danthefan wrote: »

Typical Kidney really. Rather than looking at someone like Gilroy with Bowe/Fitz/Earls going to 15 he's going to fall back on Murphy if it comes to it. Hardly a surprise.

Just because Murphy makes himself available, it doesn't mean Kidney will call him up!

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

danthefan wrote: »

Typical Kidney really. Rather than looking at someone like Gilroy with Bowe/Fitz/Earls going to 15 he's going to fall back on Murphy if it comes to it. Hardly a surprise.

Just because Murphy makes himself available, it doesn't mean Kidney will call him up!

This is true, but Kidney has had talks with him according to the article.

GerM

totallegend wrote: »

Horgan's Ireland career was over as soon as DK came on board

There's one biography I wouldn't mind reading. Horgan was always noted as one of the people that was most annoyed and vocal about the Leinster/DK scenario.

I'd be very annoyed to see GM included in the Irish squad for the 6N. There's absolutely no reason he should be near the side. We've a multitude of wingers. Kearney has 15 absolutely locked down. If we need a back up full back I'd rather see Earls move back there and used as a strike runner from deep than bringing in a bloke about to turn 34 who is considering his retirement plans. Felix Jones is due back in the next few weeks. If he gets a game under his belt in early February he should immediately be ahead of Murphy too.

As for DK and the Lions, it's not the worst idea in the world. His speciality is the short term, motivating a group of players to a focussed goal; a Lions tour would fit the bill. He's not good at development or tactics or the long term but a Lions tour provides an opportunity to hand pick the best of the coaching talent in these islands to assist in those aspects. A Lions tour is very much a collective effort. I'm not sure he's the best man for the job, but he should certainly be in consideration. The one major drawback is that his loyalty could heavily influence his part in selection.

chancer12

tolosenc wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2012/0110/lions.html

Deccie in the mix for the Lions job.

About the only chance ROG, TOL, Hayes and Buckley have for another tour...

Oh please take him! Would be great to get rid!

leakyboots

Six Nations squad set to be announced next Wednesday apparently

funky penguin

DECLAN KIDNEY will announce the Ireland squad for the upcoming Six Nations Championship next Wednesday, a tournament that will have an added piquancy in 2012, as indeed will the 11 Test matches the national side will play, because the seeding for the 2015 Rugby World Cup in England and Wales will be determined by the world rankings after the conclusion of this year’s November Test series.

The draw for the pools in the 2015 Rugby World Cup will be made in early December. The teams ranked one to four in the world will be top seeds in groups containing five nations. Those ranked fifth to eighth will act as second seeds and ninth to 12 as third seeds. Twelve countries have already qualified automatically for the 2015 tournament by finishing third or better in their respective qroups in New Zealand last year.

The remaining eight teams – there will again to be 20 competing nations at the next World Cup – will have to qualify and their seeding for the World Cup draw will be determined by the global rankings at the end of November.

In essence there will be five pots (teams ranked 1-4, 5-8, 9-12, 13-16, 17-20) from which the four pools of five teams will be filled.

Ireland’s fixtures schedule aside from the Six Nations includes a three Test tour to New Zealand and November internationals against South Africa, Samoa and Argentina. Kidneys’ charges will also play the Barbarians at Gloucester’s Kingsholm ground ahead of their departure to New Zealand but this game will not count in terms of the IRB world ranking system.

In effect Ireland will play three matches against the reigning world champions, an All Blacks side that have topped the rankings for the past 25 months and counting, whom they have never beaten, and seven of the top 10 sides in the world. The ones they won’t play are the second-ranked Australia and Tonga, who are ninth. They will also take on Samoa (11th) and Italy (12th).

Ireland are currently ranked sixth in the standings and this season’s remit couldn’t be tougher with visits to Stade de France and Twickenham, to say nothing of a three Test tussle in the backyard of the 2011 World Cup winners. The only team in the top five Ireland will face in the Aviva Stadium is South Africa on Saturday, November 10th.

Conversely, the Irish side will play the five teams ranked below them in the world rankings – Argentina, Wales, Scotland, Samoa and Italy – at the Aviva Stadium.

This might sound like an advantageous proposition but the manner in which the world rankings are calculated ensures that losing a home match can carry a more severe penalty than being defeated away from home.

The IRB World Rankings are calculated using a “Points Exchange” system, in which sides take points from each other based on the match result. In simple terms whatever one side gains, the other loses. The exchanges are based on the match result, the relative strength of each team, and the margin of victory, and there is an allowance for the aforementioned home advantage.

In the latter respect the IRB explanation of the system states: “when calculating points exchanges, the home side is treated as though they are three rating points better than their current rating. This has the effect of “handicapping” the home side as they will tend to pick up fewer points for winning and give away more points for losing. In this way, the advantage of playing at home is cancelled out.” It illustrates the importance of Ireland’s six home matches this season.

For each match, there are only five possible outcomes that can affect points exchanges: either side winning by more than 15 points, either side losing by up to 15 points, or a draw. There can also be a mathematical coefficient factor in calculating the points earned/lost that sometimes comes into play.

But what can be stated is the notion that 2012 could be viewed through the prism of development in regard to the 2015 Rugby World Cup is simply not the case.

This year every game counts, period.

WORLD RANKINGS

1 New Zealand 91.43

2 Australia 87.99

3 France 84.70

4 South Africa 84.34

5 England 81.58

6 IRELAND 80.65

7 Argentina 80.28

8 Wales 79.61

9 Tonga 76.63

10 Scotland 76.20

11 Samoa 75.81

12 Italy 73.99

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0113/1224310192822.html

Completely slipped my mind that the seedings takes place this year.

Hard to see us getting into the top 4 with the games we have this year.

Fireball07

Yeah and it also lessens the chances of Kidney making massive changes to the team.

roycon

tolosenc wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2012/0110/lions.html

Deccie in the mix for the Lions job.

About the only chance ROG, TOL, Hayes and Buckley have for another tour...

wouldnt be at all surprised to see tol come good again probably a bit harsh to put him in with hayes and buckley.

[Jackass]

... edited by request...

But just noticed quotes below...

JustinDee

[Jackass] wrote: »

Shaggy hates Munster and their players and their coach (now coaching Ireland)

Wow. Really? Thats quite a claim considering...

.ak

[Jackass] wrote: »

He was also supposedly the player who got in a fist fight in the Irish dressing room at the 2007 world cup, and on the blue magic website, Strauss is quoted as saying "You always want to be around Shaggy for that week", reffering to Leinster / Munster derby.

i.e. Shaggy hates Munster and their players and their coach (now coaching Ireland) and is in international exile as a result.

The best rugby of his career was played when he was out of the Irish squad, but sadly he missed out on a deserved grand slam medal, but at this stage, I'd just be happy to see him back playing again.

Ah well, he'll always be remembered as scoring the best team try in an Irish jersey.

molloyjh

JustinDee wrote: »

Wow. Really? Thats quite a claim considering...

Agreed. There's a difference between being pumped up for a game and hating the opposition. I think Shaggy is just up for those games after Leinster being second fiddle to Munster for so long. I doubt it's anything quite so melodramatic as a hatred of the Munster lads themselves.

jacothelad

Hatred of opposition players is a pathetic notion to anyone with an I.Q, higher than their body temperature. I seriously doubt that a man of Horgan's stature and intellect would be so crass. You can 'hate' rapists, murderers, fraudsters who rob old age pensioners etc, Hitler, Pol Pot,Saddam Hussein, terrorists of all stripes but to waste a second on hating a sporting opponent?????? Leave that to those brain dead soccer fans who besmirch their game and a few loose cannons on sites like Gwlad and MF.

phog

[Jackass] wrote: »

i.e. edited out

The only thing I know about Shaggy is what I've seen on match days or the odd training days that I've seen and I seriously doubt this is factually correct. He may well get up for a game against Munster and to be fair if I was a Leinster fan and I heard that I'd love him for it, that's the kind of mentality you'd want from your players. <edited>

Hagz

[Jackass] wrote: »

He was also supposedly the player who got in a fist fight in the Irish dressing room at the 2007 world cup, and on the blue magic website, Strauss is quoted as saying "You always want to be around Shaggy for that week", reffering to Leinster / Munster derby.

i.e. Shaggy hates Munster and their players and their coach (now coaching Ireland) and is in international exile as a result.

The best rugby of his career was played when he was out of the Irish squad, but sadly he missed out on a deserved grand slam medal, but at this stage, I'd just be happy to see him back playing again.

What are you talking about??? Are you serious!? Everyone knows it was Nacewa who said that, not Strauss!!!! Get it right man!

durkadurka

The reason shaggy is away from Ireland is the existence of tommy bowe as our best 14, and shaggy doesnt really cover any other position.

JustinDee

durkadurka wrote: »

The reason shaggy is away from Ireland is the existence of tommy bowe as our best 14, and shaggy doesnt really cover any other position.

Shane Horgan's original position is actually inside centre.

Yep though he was kept out by players like Tommy Bowe and also unfortunately got injured before the RWC initial squad was announced.

irishbucsfan

JustinDee wrote: »

Shane Horgan's original position is actually inside centre.

Doesn't mean he isn't pretty crap there though.

durkadurka

JustinDee wrote: »

Shane Horgan's original position is actually inside centre.

Yep though he was kept out by players like Tommy Bowe and also unfortunately got injured before the RWC initial squad was announced.

He used to think of himself as a centre I think but I never liked him there.

He covered centre when bod was injured in 05 I think.

JustinDee

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Doesn't mean he isn't pretty crap there though.

Played internationals for Ireland in the centre. From what I remember, he was absolutely unlucky with injury every time he hit his straps. He'd a great tour a couple of years back then got injured again. That was the best I'd seen him play in an Ireland shirt.

irishbucsfan

JustinDee wrote: »

Played internationals for Ireland in the centre. From what I remember, he was absolutely unlucky with injury every time he hit his straps. He'd a great tour a couple of years back then got injured again. That was the best I'd seen him play in an Ireland shirt.

I hated him in the center. I don't think any Irish player ever took more out of the ball*. Even at Leinster I just couldn't handle it... I started to really dislike him.

*James Downey will if given the chance

[Jackass]

I can say with some certainty that Shaggy, (third highest try scorer of all time for Ireland I think?), was not dropped from the entire Irish set up for lack of ability, whilst still starting for an Irish team and winning two Heineken Cups... even if he wasn't a dead cert for the 14 jersey...his ability was never the reason he was excluded from the Irish squad and never returned since DK took over...

Just in reply to someone's comment about Shaggy releasing a book when he retires would be a good read, I certainly agree.

Brendan97

durkadurka wrote: »

He used to think of himself as a centre I think but I never liked him there.

He covered centre when bod was injured in 05 I think.

Sounds like a certain player I know.........................
If you haven't already figured it out

Keith Earls

durkadurka

Slightly off topic but shaggys tv analysis during the rwc was very interesting and thoughtful.

He might write a very interesting book

CatFromHue

durkadurka wrote: »

Slightly off topic but shaggys tv analysis during the rwc was very interesting and thoughtful.

He might write a very interesting book

He is very well spoken all right, I believe he may or may not be studying law part time.

GerM

JustinDee wrote: »

Shane Horgan's original position is actually inside centre.

Outside centre, interestingly enough when he first came along. Then BOD came along, Shaggy had a few injuries and BOD came on the scene. He still had 13 on his back as recently as 2001. He always gets a seriously hard time about his ability as a centre but people seem to completely forget (not yourself JD) that the bloke spent 6 years of his career being a centre and a bloody good one. He played for the Lions there in test matches. He was centre to a Leinster team tearing sides apart in the backs with himself and D'Arcy in a role reversal. He had a few high profile games in the centre for Ireland which went badly. These were about 2 years after having played a game there and he was hung out to dry on the back of them. He simply had no time in the centre in a long time and shoving him back in there was a big mistake by management.

I can say with some certainty that Shaggy, (third highest try scorer of all time?), was not dropped from the entire Irish set up for lack of ability, whilst still starting for an Irish team and winning two Heineken Cups... even if he wasn't a dead cert for the 14 jersey...his ability was never the reason he was excluded from the Irish squad and never returned since DK took over...

Quite the conspiracy theory. Shaggy was one of the best wingers in the world around 2005/06 but his form dropped hugely for the 2008/09 season up until the closing stages and even some Leinster fans were looking for him to be dropped. The only thing that kept him in the side was the fact that Nacewa and Kearney both suffered significant spells on the sidelines. He played the best rugby of his career probably in green. He was almost unplayable as a winger for a period in his career. The game in Twickenham was the epitome of that stage of his career and he ended up with 3 Lions test caps on the back of his Irish form.

GerM

CatFromHue wrote: »

He is very well spoken all right, I believe he may or may not be studying law part time.

Has completed his masters in law.

errlloyd

GerM wrote: »

Has completed his masters in law.

Undergrad in Griffith, Masters in Trinity.

Have to say though, I thought he was a brutal centre. But I saw a lot of him in that era of small skillful centres. I think we're going back to the brutes of the 90s. (Not here in Ireland, but I mean the likes of SBW, Tualangi and Roberts).

.ak

I was thinking that myself errlloyd, but the more I think about it the less likely it seems. At first when I thought of EoM stepping into an Irish shirt I thought it was just plain bad timing as the rise of the 'massive' centers was coming about ala Roberts, Manu, Nonu..

But, the more I think of it, the less of an issue it seems. The three mentioned above I think are class and perhaps in a league of their own - Although Roberts since the early RWC matches has yet to show any more dimension to his play, Manu Tualangi has yet to be properly tested against decent opposition, and I think Nonu would be just as good if he weighed 12 stone.

But thinking to other centers that are 'famous' because they're big, blocky, back-row forward builds... Nothing really inspires me with confidence - Downey and Bastareaud are good examples.

I think there's still plenty of small centers that do the job just fine. EoM has shown plenty of times that it takes more than just bulk to break that midfield line. Cave has shown that loops and dummy runs are intergal part of getting over the gain line rather than smashing through it. And coming to think of, SBW isn't a big bloke. He never really breaks the gain line either, but has his trademark ability of getting his body high, pushing over the line and then off-loading to someone who will be getting past that line.

Size isn't everything I'd say. And how can we complain when we also have the likes of Ferris, SOB and Heaslip causing havoc in the midfield channels.

Benny Cake

.ak wrote: »

And coming to think of, SBW isn't a big bloke. He never really breaks the gain line either, but has his trademark ability of getting his body high, pushing over the line and then off-loading to someone who will be getting past that line.

Is the bolded part a typo? SBW is 6ft3 and 17 stone...