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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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    #1862
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    [Jackass] wrote: »
    Donnacha O'Callaghan was a 5 until he was moved to 4 to accomodate Munsters 2 best second rows way back when. Hasn't moved since.

    It makes zero difference to field positioning, scrummaging, and only makes a difference to what point of the line out you jump at. Massively interchangable.

    It definitely makes a difference to scrummaging. More power generally needed behind the tighthead. Binding on the other side which needs to be concentrated on as if you've changed it can be looser and make for a less cohesive drive. It can be adapted to though with a decent effort.


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    #1863
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    To me the number on your back doesn't matter for a lock what does matter is you have one lock who can call a lineout. DOC and DRyan doesn't work for that reason, neither would Ryan and Tuohy. Other than that it is interchangable imo


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    #1864
    Benny Cake
    Registered Users Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    GerM wrote: »
    It definitely makes a difference to scrummaging. More power generally needed behind the tighthead. Binding on the other side which needs to be concentrated on as if you've changed it can be looser and make for a less cohesive drive. It can be adapted to though with a decent effort.

    +1 Makes a huge difference in the scrum. Not saying it is impossible for a 4 to play 5 and vice versa but I would not like their first outing on an unfamiliar side of the scrum to be in the 6 nations... Let them play a few Rabo games to test the waters & work away from there...


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    #1865
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    It's such a shame Sherry got injured, he looked great at the start of the season and was ahead of Varley at Munster.


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    #1866
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    It's such a shame Sherry got injured, he looked great at the start of the season and was ahead of Varley at Munster.

    People keep saying this but as far as I know there were 2 ML games played before Varley had to go out to the RWC. Sherry started one and Varley started one. How you have managed to conclude from this that Sherry was ahead of Varley is beyond me.


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    #1867
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Huh, just checked that. My mistake!


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    #1868
    boynesider
    Closed Accounts Posts: 272 ✭✭boynesider


    I've been enormously impressed by Sherry whenever I've seen him. Great ball carrier and the way he plays reminds me a bit of Keith Wood (not saying hes even half as good though).


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    #1869
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    GerM wrote: »
    [QUOTE='[Jackass];76204892']Donnacha O'Callaghan was a 5 until he was moved to 4 to accomodate Munsters 2 best second rows way back when. Hasn't moved since.

    It makes zero difference to field positioning, scrummaging, and only makes a difference to what point of the line out you jump at. Massively interchangable.

    It definitely makes a difference to scrummaging. More power generally needed behind the tighthead. Binding on the other side which needs to be concentrated on as if you've changed it can be looser and make for a less cohesive drive. It can be adapted to though with a decent effort.[/Quote]
    If you need more power behind the tighthead then why is the 4 the big strong enforcer type? Have you thought that one through? :p

    Generally better off having a strong footing behind your loosehead to give him a bit of support given how isolated he is.

    Tuohy is perfectly capable of playing 4 at international level. Cannot see any reason why he couldnt.

    Strength isn't the only thing that decides which side though, you generally put the taller guy on the tighthead side as well, for binding reasons.

    It's disgraceful if Tuohy isn't training with Ireland next week. Perfectly sums up the incompetence and complete lack of awareness of the Irish management.


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    #1870
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Tuohy is perfectly capable of playing 4 at international level. Cannot see any reason why he couldnt.

    Still completely unproven really, not sure how you can make this claim.


    As for the squad training, this is far from concrete but apparently it's the RWC squad who are meeting.


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    #1871
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    danthefan wrote: »
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Tuohy is perfectly capable of playing 4 at international level. Cannot see any reason why he couldnt.

    Still completely unproven really, not sure how you can make this claim.
    Where would he have trouble then?


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    #1872
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    If it is just a post-WC debriefing then fair enough. It'd be nice if the IRFU would clarify that.


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    #1873
    Benny Cake
    Registered Users Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Where would he have trouble then?

    Point is, you would like to see him play 4 with Ulster before he plays there with Ireland. Its pretty logical really.


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    #1874
    shuffol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭shuffol


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    If it is just a post-WC debriefing then fair enough. It'd be nice if the IRFU would clarify that.

    I'd say it must be, no mention of it on the IRFU website anyway


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    #1875
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Where would he have trouble then?

    According to the IRFU site he's got 2 caps off the bench. At international level he is a completely unproven quantity. I didn't say he would have trouble anywhere, because I don't know what would happen if he started at 4 for Ireland. The point is neither do you.


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    #1876
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    danthefan wrote: »
    According to the IRFU site he's got 2 caps off the bench. At international level he is a completely unproven quantity. I didn't say he would have trouble anywhere, because I don't know what would happen if he started at 4 for Ireland. The point is neither do you.

    He's unproven, so give him the chance to prove himself. All he can do is play well for Ulster, and he has done that, he deserves a chance, especially ahead of the other options, which are pretty limited.


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    #1877
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    If you need more power behind the tighthead then why is the 4 the big strong enforcer type? Have you thought that one through? :p

    :confused:

    It's not an exact science and there are examples of the other way around. Shaw packs down behind the tighthead. DOC packs down behind Ross for Ireland. Botha packs down behind the tighthead.

    Big, enforcer = more power.


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    #1878
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,143 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    danthefan wrote: »
    According to the IRFU site he's got 2 caps off the bench. At international level he is a completely unproven quantity.

    Both of those games were on the 09/10 tour to Oz and Nz, the one were NZ toyed with us before they get bored. He did score a lovely try in the NZ game.

    I'm not sure if he's been anywhere near Ireland squads since but then he's also been injured at bad times too.


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    #1879
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    GerM wrote: »
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    If you need more power behind the tighthead then why is the 4 the big strong enforcer type? Have you thought that one through? :p

    :confused:

    It's not an exact science and there are examples of the other way around. Shaw packs down behind the tighthead. DOC packs down behind Ross for Ireland. Botha packs down behind the tighthead.

    Big, enforcer = more power.
    Size doesn't always = power.

    Every scrum is different though, you're right. And you're spot on, DOC always played behind Hayes, which just goes to show even more that there is no difference between the two lock positions. It also means POC scrummages on the left and if Tuohy played with him he'd be scrummaging exactly where he does for Ulster, on the right.


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    #1880
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    Tuohy was never going to be left out based on whether he is a 4 or a 5, it would be down to inexperience or lack of familiarity with O'Connell or something like that. I still think the second row for the 6 nations should be 4. Tuohy 5. O'Connell, but the Irish Management seem to have a soft spot for Ryan, so I doubt it will be the starting combination.


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    #1881
    ed7890
    Closed Accounts Posts: 607 ✭✭✭ed7890


    Tox56 wrote: »
    Tuohy was never going to be left out based on whether he is a 4 or a 5, it would be down to inexperience or lack of familiarity with O'Connell or something like that. I still think the second row for the 6 nations should be 4. Tuohy 5. O'Connell, but the Irish Management seem to have a soft spot for Ryan, so I doubt it will be the starting combination.

    It's a shame if Tuohy doesn't get a chance, but Ryan has been doing fairly well this season himself. There's some merit to it if he gets in there for Ireland.


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    #1882
    profitius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    Tox56 wrote: »
    Tuohy was never going to be left out based on whether he is a 4 or a 5, it would be down to inexperience or lack of familiarity with O'Connell or something like that. I still think the second row for the 6 nations should be 4. Tuohy 5. O'Connell, but the Irish Management seem to have a soft spot for Ryan, so I doubt it will be the starting combination.

    You certainly couldn't accuse many people on this forum of having a soft spot for Ryan.


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    #1883
    wixfjord
    Site Banned Posts: 5,346 ✭✭✭wixfjord


    profitius wrote: »
    Tox56 wrote: »
    Tuohy was never going to be left out based on whether he is a 4 or a 5, it would be down to inexperience or lack of familiarity with O'Connell or something like that. I still think the second row for the 6 nations should be 4. Tuohy 5. O'Connell, but the Irish Management seem to have a soft spot for Ryan, so I doubt it will be the starting combination.

    You certainly couldn't accuse many people on this forum of having a soft spot for Ryan.
    And for very good reason.

    He's looked great since the WC though.


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    #1884
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,143 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    profitius wrote: »
    You certainly couldn't accuse many people on this forum of having a soft spot for Ryan.

    But he's a big softie

    1224309538791_1.jpg?ts=1325097070


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    #1885
    durkadurka
    Registered Users Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭durkadurka


    Poc named captain for the 6n.

    Quelle surprise.


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    #1886
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2011/1230/ireland_oconnellp.html

    No surprises there!


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    #1887
    Takeabath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26 ✭Takeabath


    Going on the teams this weekend it seems kidney is not considering the following players : O'Malley, Fitzgerald, Touhy and Toner. Sigh


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    #1888
    durkadurka
    Registered Users Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭durkadurka


    Takeabath wrote: »
    Going on the teams this weekend it seems kidney is not considering the following players : O'Malley, Fitzgerald, Touhy and Toner. Sigh

    Not so sure about that. Cronin is defo in camp but makes the bench. So maybe the likes of toner and Luke are in camp and will be released to warm the bench.


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    #1889
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    Takeabath wrote: »
    Going on the teams this weekend it seems kidney is not considering the following players : O'Malley, Fitzgerald, Touhy and Toner. Sigh

    I initially thought that judging by the Munster/Ulster teams, but after seeing the Leinster/Connacht teams, it must be something different. Cronin is in the Leinster team (where surely he would be in the Irish setup), and ignoring Fitzgerald would be absolutely ridiculous, even for Kidney, so it must be some Post-WC meetup of some sort. I doubt it is the team being considered for 6N.


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    #1890
    wixfjord
    Site Banned Posts: 5,346 ✭✭✭wixfjord


    Takeabath wrote: »
    Going on the teams this weekend it seems kidney is not considering the following players : O'Malley, Fitzgerald, Touhy and Toner. Sigh
    No it's a camp for the WC players I think.
    Over on sat too iirc.


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    #1891
    durkadurka
    Registered Users Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭durkadurka


    Great minds...


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