Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

.ak

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Arguments can be made that Ireland's gameplan does not suit a player like Sexton, but it up to him to make those feelings known to management. We were consistently told that the players are encouraged to play what is in front of them, so you'd assume that the same happens in training when deciding tactics etc. The coaches are not autocratic and Sexton (my example) should step up as a senior player and make a comment on how to get the most out of himself and those around him.

How do you know he hasn't?

rrpc

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I was going to make the point that it is the mid-season tournaments like the 6N which would have the biggest effect. It would be much harder for players to manage the transition from club to country in the middle of a season when they are in full provincial mode.

That's actually a good point and does explain the relative difference beween performances at the RWC and 6N. During the 6N, we never reached the heights we reached when beating OZ at the RWC, although there were other factors at play there.

Of that group, neither Sexton or D'Arcy bring the same quality of performance to the table at international level as they do at provincial level. Heaslip too performs much better for Leinster than he does for Ireland. SOB would be a difficult one to judge as he was stilll adjusting to the #7 jersey when he has last played for Ireland and he is not the barnstorming 6 he was when he first came on the scene.

Sexton is never as effective as a 10 when getting slow ball. He got a lot of that from TOL and Murray playing for Ireland and it was only when paired with Reddan against England last year and OZ in the RWC that he really played to the level he does for Leinster.

Generally (with some exceptions) our tactics for international games were way off the mark. We stood off Wales in both the RWC and 6N and allowed their big runners to get up a head of steam before hitting the gainline. Having done it once, it was extraordinary that we tried the same tactic again a few months later.

OldRio

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

How is putting blame on the players deflecting criticism? If anything, blaming Kidney for player's inability to transfer form from one scene to another is deflecting criticism. Just reading the rest of the board, the only deflection is from the under-performing (relative to ability) to the coach.

Kidney can be blamed for a lot of things (selections, tactics etc.) but he can only do so much to create a close team atmosphere. The rest lies on the players.

When it was Munster performing in Europe and Ireland failing, the blame was put on the Munster lads and they stepped up and assisted us to a grandslam. Now, when it is Leinster performing in Europe and Ireland failing, the blame is put on the coach. It makes one wonder...

Whats the point in sensible debate when you only want to push one agenda.

rrpc

totallegend wrote: »

Off-topic, but I think O'Gara was pants in this year's HC; everything positive came from his boot and it's not enough for a modern out-half.

Within his own standards he was good. It's not realistic to expect him to change his game this late in his career.

fitz

1. It's up to the players to go out an execute the game plan as best they can, and perform their role in that game plan to the best of their abilities.
2. It's up to the coach to devise a game plan that works in the context of the modern game, and which plays to the strengths of the players he has at his disposal. He has to use the players in a way that sees the team achieve it's potential.

No-one can definitively say that 1. isn't happening. As mentioned above, you can't expect Leinster-like play from Sexton with the slow ball he gets in the national team, you can't expect SOB to bust over the line if he's buried in every ruck, you can't expect Bowe or Trimble or Earls to score tries when our game plan allows the opposing defense plenty of time to set its lines.

2. definitely isn't happening.

People need to knock it off with this X/Y/Z player isn't performing for Ireland the way he does for his province. Those players aren't being used the way they are by their provinces...you can't expect their performances to be the same.

And that's no-one's responsibility but the coach.
The suggestion that it's Sexton's fault that the coach's game plan doesn't maximise his effect on the game, and that he could change that merely by stepping up and saying it....well, tbh, I think that's probably one of the most ridiculously stupid things I've ever read on here.

Clegg

It will be interesting to see the developments in the provinces next season as Leinster/Munster/Ulster will all have Kiwi head coaches.

They are all different but they should bring that New Zealand ethos of rugby with them.

It will be interesting to see if it translates to the international stage.

rrpc

Clegg wrote: »

It will be interesting to see the developments in the provinces next season as Leinster/Munster/Ulster will all have Kiwi head coaches.

They are all different but they should bring that New Zealand ethos of rugby with them.

It will be interesting to see if it translates to the international stage.

molloyjh

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

When it was Munster performing in Europe and Ireland failing, the blame was put on the Munster lads and they stepped up and assisted us to a grandslam. Now, when it is Leinster performing in Europe and Ireland failing, the blame is put on the coach. It makes one wonder...

Ireland were under-performing in EOSs last season in charge, and he got a hell of a lot more flack from all corners than Kidney has gotten. Kidney is no victim here so please stop making him out to be one. He's gotten an armchair ride from the press compared to EOS, especially seeing as EOS only had 1 bad season to Kidneys 2-3.

The Munster players did not "step up" when it was brought to their attention that they were "failing". Nor were they blamed by anyone for anything. That is an utterly incorrect assessment/recollection of the situation. The Irish team had gotten a new coach who knew the Munster lads and coached a style of play that suited them down to the ground. Neither of which is true of the Leinster lads right now.

This revisionist history and apples & oranges used to justify this on-going bias is amusing though.

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

They are representing a country of ~6million and any feelings towards to coaching staff/philosophy should be cast aside when they are involved with the national setup. Just as the Munster lads had to do once Kearney made it abundantly clear when he stated that they give more to their province that their country. Its that will to fight for one another that we need to once again harness, a fight that was clearly evident as Leinster secured their win against Clermont.

The will to fight together means nothing if you're playing a losing game plan. And no human being on earth can buy into something they don't buy into.

dtpc191991

Why do i get the feeling that with Bowe and Fitzgerald now out the team for the summer tour is far too predictable and it looks something like this:

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. O' Callaghan
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. D'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll
14. Trimble
15. Kearney
16. Cronin
17. Court
18. Ryan
19. O'Mahony
20. Reddan
21. O'Gara
22. McFadden

Hagz

dtpc191991 wrote: »

Why do i get the feeling that with Bowe and Fitzgerald now out the team for the summer tour is far too predictable and it looks something like this:

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. O' Callaghan Donnacha Ryan
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. D'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll
14. Trimble
15. Kearney
16. Cronin
17. Court
18. RyanO'Callaghan
19. O'Mahony
20. Reddan
21. O'Gara
22. McFadden

There ya go

thomond2006

Healy, Best, Ross, Tuohy, POC, Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip;
Murray, Sexton, Earls, Wallace, BOD, Gilroy, Kearney

Bench: Cronin, Court, Ryan, POM, Reddan, Jackson/Madigan, McFadden

shuffol

Looks like a stay of execution in the national side for DOC.

.ak

As much as it pains me to say it, recent injuries might force Deccie's hand a bit and we might see some fresh ideas brought in for the NZ games.

He'll try and be as conservative as possible, but we might see...

Healy, Best, Ross, Ryan/DOC, Tuohy, Fez, SOB, Heaslip
-
Reddan/Murray
-
Sexton/ROG
-
D. Kearney, Darce, BOD, Trimble, R. Kearney


So basically with POC, Fitz and Bowe the main absences we'll see Ryan take up LH lock. If that happens we'll probably see Touhy playing at 5. If he plays Ryan and DOC together we'll probably be a tad light there.

Dave Kearney I think is next in line for the winger jersey. He was brought in for the 6N, so no reason why he wouldn't fit in now.

Other than that, it's gonna be all the same for Kidders. Which is silly if you ask me....

Hagz

With POC unfortunately looking like he's injured although nothing is confirmed, I would expect Kidney to go with this team.
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. O'Callaghan
5. Ryan
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. D'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll
14. Trimble
15. Kearney

Personally I'd go with
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. Tuohy
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. McFadden
13. O'Driscoll
14. Trimble // Gilroy
15. Kearney

ray jay

Hagz wrote: »

With POC unfortunately looking like he's injured although nothing is confirmed, I would expect Kidney to go with this team.
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. O'Callaghan
5. Ryan
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. D'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll
14. Trimble
15. Kearney

Looks likely alright, with McFadden covering 11-15. Assuming Cronin, Reddan, ROG and POM are on the bench, it comes down to whether Court and McCarthy get picked again or if anyone else is given a chance.

Hype710

Team: R Kearney, A Trimble, B’ O’ Driscoll, P Wallace, K Earls, J Sexton, E Reddan, C Healy, R Best, M Ross, D Ryan, D Tuohy, S Ferris, S O’ Brien, J Heaslip.

Replacements: S Cronin, R Loughney, R Caldwell, P O’ Mahony, C Murray, I Madigan, D Kearney.

nathan99

Like ... dont bring rog? bring madigan instead. Btw @hype710 paddy wallace is retired.
Hope mike sherry and Mc fadden get to start a few.

bilston

nathan99 wrote: »

Btw @hype710 paddy wallace is retired.

You're getting your Wallace's mixed up there Nathan!

Some interesting calls coming for Kidney. Someone elsewhere was saying that they've heard that Best and Ferris are getting the summer off. I can see Ferris being given a break for his own well being but I doubt Best would be.

Hagz

bilston wrote: »

You're getting your Wallace's mixed up there Nathan!

Some interesting calls coming for Kidney. Someone elsewhere was saying that they've heard that Best and Ferris are getting the summer off. I can see Ferris being given a break for his own well being but I doubt Best would be.

Wouldn't be against Ferris getting a break, he needs it.

porterbelly

O Callaghan and D'arcy :rolleyes:

leonard7

i know its a bit pointless asking due to kidneys conservatism but what would be an ideal 15 for nz for the summer if you could pick...because i feel people are begrudginly picking unchanged teams for the sake of being closer to the eventual old boys team instead of being a lil hopeful and picking a no shot team

Hagz

leonard7 wrote: »

i know its a bit pointless asking due to kidneys conservatism but what would be an ideal 15 for nz for the summer if you could pick...because i feel people are begrudginly picking unchanged teams for the sake of being closer to the eventual old boys team instead of being a lil hopeful and picking a no shot team

Balancing development with competitiveness ideally my team would be
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. Tuohy
6. O'Brien
7. O'Mahony
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. McFadden
13. Cave
14. Gilroy
15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Court
18. Toner
19. Henry
20. Reddan
21. Madigan
22. Trimble

It runs the risk of being demolished, but then again, so does our other options. I feel like that team would subject key players to vital experience. I don't see any justification in consistently starting O'Callaghan, O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, O'Gara, McCarthy etc from a long term perspective, although they will be because, although I'd debate it, their experience is needed.

snow mad

leonard7 wrote: »

i know its a bit pointless asking due to kidneys conservatism but what would be an ideal 15 for nz for the summer if you could pick...because i feel people are begrudginly picking unchanged teams for the sake of being closer to the eventual old boys team instead of being a lil hopeful and picking a no shot team

healy boss ross poc ryan ferris heaslip/henry sob

reddan sexton earls bod wallace trimble r kearney

cronin (dont know maybe hagan) touhy pom mcfadden madigan murrey

Clegg

Healy
Best
Ross
POC
Tuohy
O'Brien
Henry
Heaslip
Reddan
Sexton
Earls
Wallace
BOD
Trimble
Kearney

I think Ferris needs a rest so I put SOB in there. Heaslip needs one too but there is a big gap skillwise between him and the next 8. Henry has been the best Irish 7 this year so we may as well try him now. Not expecting miracles though.

Replacements: Cronin, Court, Ryan, POM, Murray, Jackson/Madigan, Mc Fadden

Then bring D.Kearney, Gilroy, Sherry, Marshall, Ruddock, Loughney and a few others as part of the wider squad.

This will never happen under Kidney though. Expect the usual conservatism with some changes made for injury.

bilston

leonard7 wrote: »

i know its a bit pointless asking due to kidneys conservatism but what would be an ideal 15 for nz for the summer if you could pick...because i feel people are begrudginly picking unchanged teams for the sake of being closer to the eventual old boys team instead of being a lil hopeful and picking a no shot team

To be honest up to now I don't think Kidney's selections have been that far out (picking DOC over Ryan is an obvious one though), it's the way he has us playing that bothers me more.

However looking towards the summer tour taking everything into account my team would look this, my opinion changes week by week in fairness!

15 Kearney, 14 Trimble, 13 O'Driscoll, 12 Wallace, 11 Earls, 10 Sexton, 9 Reddan
1 Healy, 2 Best, 3 Ross, 4 Ryan, 5 O'Connell/Tuohy (Paulie looked in a bad way tonight), 6 O'Brien (Ferris gets the summer off as his knee needs a rest), 7 O'Mahony, 8 Heaslip

Bench
Cronin, Court, O'Callaghan/Tuohy, Henry, Marshall, Madigan, McFadden

Other players I'd like to see get at least 40 mins gametime over the three tests would be Mike Sherry, Deccie Fitzpatrick, Dominic Ryan and Craig Gilroy. I'd also bring D'Arcy because while his form for Ireland was poor he's playing well for Leinster and I wouldn't ditch him completely yet, likewise DOC and ROG.

Sindri

Off the top of my head:

1.Cian Healy
2.Rory Best
3.Mike Ross
4.Paul O' Connell
5.Dan Tuohy
6.Sean O' Brien
7.Chris Henry
8.Peter O' Mahony

9.Conor Murray
10.Johnny Sexton
11.Keith Earls
12.Fergus McFadden
13.Brian O' Driscoll
14.Tommy Bowe
15.Rob Kearney

16.Sean Cronin
17.Tom Court
18.Donncha Ryan
19.Devin Toner
20.Eoin Reddan
21.Ian Madigan
22.Craig Gilroy


Really I'd like to see some of the younger lads (who would be able for it) to get some game time. The likes of Sherry, young Henderson that we seen today (unlikely I know), Ruddock, Dom Ryan, Dave Kearney, Marshall, Jackson and Cave. I'd also like to see Paddy Wallace in there but that's all very unlikely and I'd say our intent is to be as competitive as possible which is good from a spectators point of view but not good for Irish rugby in the long-term. We have to be competitive and leave the blooding for AIs.

I'd say our chances depend on how interested the ABs will be. We may scrape one.

Lelantos

Hagz wrote: »

leonard7 wrote: »

i know its a bit pointless asking due to kidneys conservatism but what would be an ideal 15 for nz for the summer if you could pick...because i feel people are begrudginly picking unchanged teams for the sake of being closer to the eventual old boys team instead of being a lil hopeful and picking a no shot team

Balancing development with competitiveness ideally my team would be
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. Tuohy
6. O'Brien
7. O'Mahony
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. McFadden
13. Cave
14. Gilroy
15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Court
18. Toner
19. Henry
20. Reddan
21. Madigan
22. Trimble

It runs the risk of being demolished, but then again, so does our other options. I feel like that team would subject key players to vital experience. I don't see any justification in consistently starting O'Callaghan, O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, O'Gara, McCarthy etc from a long term perspective, although they will be because, although I'd debate it, their experience is needed.

Centre partnership would get eaten alive in NZ

Hagz

Lelantos wrote: »

Centre partnership would get eaten alive in NZ

No more so than Earls and McFadden, I suppose you could make an argument that D'Arcy provides essential defensive ability, but you have to give someone else ago to asses your options sometimes, especially when D'Arcy is off form in green. A lot of people seem to be going with Wallace, but I just don't see the benefit of that long term.

Tox56

Hagz wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

Centre partnership would get eaten alive in NZ

No more so than Earls and McFadden, I suppose you could make an argument that D'Arcy provides essential defensive ability, but you have to give someone else ago to asses your options sometimes, especially when D'Arcy is off form in green. A lot of people seem to be going with Wallace, but I just don't see the benefit of that long term.

BOD?? He has to at least play some part. I would like to see Cave get a start, but not at the same time as McFadden. You need some experience in such an important part of the pitch.

thomond2006

BOD has to play.