Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Fishooks12

Mucho respect for Marcus Horan but if he puts on an irish jersey again I'll find it very hard to watch the national team

blackhound

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Mucho respect for Marcus Horan but if he puts on an irish jersey again I'll find it very hard to watch the national team

Absolutely I'm not trying to take anything form the man, his past achievements speak for themselves but I feel he is no longer an asset to the Irish team.

Fishooks12

blackhound wrote: »

Absolutely I'm not trying to take anything form the man, his past achievements speak for themselves but I feel he is no longer an asset to the Irish team.

He's not even Rabo standard anymore tbh

Doubt he'll be selected all the same, even Kidney aint that mad!

profitius

Marcus looks to be gone past it now. Hes a solid Rabo scrummager still but when coming up against top class scrums he struggles these days. I think people underestimate how good a player he was. He always held his own in the scrums, was an excellent ball carrier and has a fantastic try scoring record.

Kilcoyne should be ahead of him now you'd feel. Munster also need to fast track more looseheads considering that Du Preez and Horan won't be around for too long more and Darragh Hurley - although talented - is crocked.

bilston

Raisins wrote: »

Surely if it's between the two Fitzpatrick will get the nod ahead of Loughney after his performance in the semi final last weekend.

Edit: If Marcus Horan plays ahead of either Ireland doesn't deserve to have test calibre props.

Possibly, Loughney has been playing well for a while now though.

Deccie scrummaged well on Saturday but I still think is match fitness is an issue, he isn't the fittest guy anyway but you could see at times that he went missing in defensive situations at Edinburgh exploited that. In saying that I think Ireland are really just looking for a TH that can hold his end up in the scrum and in that case Fitzpatrick fits the bill. I suppose Deccie Fitz is Mike Ross three years ago!

danthefan

When was the last time Horan was involved in any way with Ireland, even in a training squad? He won't get picked imo. And if he does I'm supporting someone else, it would just be the mother of all backwards steps.

Podge_irl

I think we should probably restrain ourselves from getting outraged over completely hypothetical scenarios.

thomond2006

danthefan wrote: »

When was the last time Horan was involved in any way with Ireland, even in a training squad? He won't get picked imo. And if he does I'm supporting someone else, it would just be the mother of all backwards steps.

Played against Scotland in the first RWC warmup game (off the bench).

CIARAN_BOYLE

thomond2006 wrote: »

Played against Scotland in the first RWC warmup game (off the bench).

and then against Connacht in a later warmup

irishbucsfan

Horan trained with Ireland during the 6 Nations. Unless I'm going mad.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Quinlan has had another top article in the Times today. The main premise appears to be explanations as to why Leinster players are unable to bring their provincial form to national level. The article can be found here.

From the Blindside - Alan Quinlan wrote:

...
I was in the room with the Ireland squad before the Grand Slam campaign when Rob Kearney asked the big question – why did it seem that Munster players were performing better in red shirts than in green shirts?

Rob was a young guy, an up-and-coming player who hadn’t won a Heineken Cup at that stage and hadn’t won anything with Ireland either. He said straight out that he was envious of the way Munster players could find the fire in their bellies for big Heineken Cup games, how the collective will to win was so obvious.

There was a lot of respect for him in asking a question like that because it was an issue that had to be addressed and it probably needed somebody from outside of Munster to bring it up. Nobody ever held it against him. It was acknowledging that in Munster we had something the Ireland team needed to harness.

The wheel has come full circle now and you can’t watch Leinster these days without wondering the same thing. Leinster’s level of performance is so high and so clinical that you would think the national team should be reaping the benefit. But it’s the same scenario as when Munster were at our best – guys seem to perform better in a blue shirt than in a green one.
...

He does make some valid arguments to explain his statement, but he doesn't label Kidney as the fault (sorry to disappoint). It is a hard hitting assertion, but it needed to be asked. Healy and Kearney aside, the Leinster contingent aren't bringing the best of their abilities to the national fold.

I wonder if some young up and coming squad member will ask the same tough question that Kearney did in 09?

leftleg

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Quinlan has had another top article in the Times today. The main premise appears to be explanations as to why Leinster players are unable to bring their provincial form to national level.


He does make some valid arguments to explain his statement, but he doesn't label Kidney as the fault (sorry to disappoint).

Why bother; its screamingly obvious; he probably did mention "he who we wont name" but the Thorno edited it out so he can get the next Ireland team sheet before anyone else does.

Teferi

Everyone ignore what himself above wrote and actually read the article before responding to him.

The article can be found here.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Teferi wrote: »

Everyone ignore what himself above wrote and actually read the article before responding to him.

The article can be found here.

Forgot the link to the article. Added it now.

leftleg

I found nothing hard hitting about the article at all; the part about Kearney in the dressing room is mildly interesting but the rest of it is mostly sound bite and the usual stuff; falls short of nails on head imo;

leftleg

Article on D'arcy in the Indo

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/darcy-ill-play-with-leinster-until-someone-tells-me-im-too-old-3096903.html

Your nearly too old Gordon; stop telling Hugh this;

Tox56

Sexton doesn't play for Ireland like he does for Leinster because Ireland dont play like Leinster.

funky penguin

Like most of his articles, I enjoyed it.

The absence of even one paragraph on the management's responsibility to aid in the transfer of our provincial success into the international scene was a little glaring though.

OldRio

Not one mention of Kidney.

Questions should be raised by those in positions of influence and yet all they do is to deflect criticism.
Shameful.


Kidney has the safest job in international Rugby.

irishbucsfan

Is it really surprising that Quinlan won't criticise Declan Kidney? Im sure he's a massive believer in Kidney given what they've been through.

Tox56

It is remarkable that although more than 2/3 of this board want Kidney out, the Irish press is so devoid of any criticism.

Especially when you consider even the English are questioning his credentials. Stuart Barnes and Dewi Morris (and think Guscott too), when asked why HEC success isn't translating to internationals, suggested Kidney was at least partly to blame, certainly more criticism than he has recieved here..

Cpt_Blackbeard

OldRio wrote: »

Not one mention of Kidney.

Questions should be raised by those in positions of influence and yet all they do is to deflect criticism.
Shameful.


Kidney has the safest job in international Rugby.

How is putting blame on the players deflecting criticism? If anything, blaming Kidney for player's inability to transfer form from one scene to another is deflecting criticism. Just reading the rest of the board, the only deflection is from the under-performing (relative to ability) to the coach.

Kidney can be blamed for a lot of things (selections, tactics etc.) but he can only do so much to create a close team atmosphere. The rest lies on the players.

When it was Munster performing in Europe and Ireland failing, the blame was put on the Munster lads and they stepped up and assisted us to a grandslam. Now, when it is Leinster performing in Europe and Ireland failing, the blame is put on the coach. It makes one wonder...

irishbucsfan

Re: Kearney, to get things straight

I don't believe Munster players weren't playing for Ireland because of a lack of pride or effort. Similarly I don't think Leinster are either. Munster were not accused of that. To accuse Leinster of that is imbecilic.

I think its hard to buy into a game plan that doesn't suit you. I think the Munster players encountered that with O'Sullivan and I think the Leinster players encounter that with Kidney, perhaps to an even greater extent.

To get the most out of the Munster players it took a massive change in the Irish management. From the coaches to their philosophy to their approach. Everything changed. The only problem was we changed to a system that was outdated by a change in the laws of the game just a couple of months later. We waited too long to take Munster's lead and replicate it on a national level. Ultimately that generation of players paid the price for that lack of action on the part of the IRFU.

After 3 years of vast underperformance its just deja vu.

irishbucsfan

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

OldRio wrote: »

Not one mention of Kidney.

Questions should be raised by those in positions of influence and yet all they do is to deflect criticism.
Shameful.


Kidney has the safest job in international Rugby.

How is putting blame on the players deflecting criticism? If anything, blaming Kidney for player's inability to transfer form from one scene to another is deflecting criticism. Just reading the rest of the board, the only deflection is from the under-performing (relative to ability) to the coach.

Kidney can be blamed for a lot of things (selections, tactics etc.) but he can only do so much to create a close team atmosphere. The rest lies on the players.

When it was Munster performing in Europe and Ireland failing, the blame was put on the Munster lads and they stepped up and assisted us to a grandslam. Now, when it is Leinster performing in Europe and Ireland failing, the blame is put on the coach. It makes one wonder...

So you think our game plan and selection policy is spot on?!

leftleg

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

How is putting blame on the players deflecting criticism? If anything, blaming Kidney for player's inability to transfer form from one scene to another is deflecting criticism. Just reading the rest of the board, the only deflection is from the under-performing (relative to ability) to the coach.

Kidney can be blamed for a lot of things (selections, tactics etc.) but he can only do so much to create a close team atmosphere. The rest lies on the players.

When it was Munster performing in Europe and Ireland failing, the blame was put on the Munster lads and they stepped up and assisted us to a grandslam. Now, when it is Leinster performing in Europe and Ireland failing, the blame is put on the coach. It makes one wonder...

Your post makes me wonder; Kidney id the only exception to this whole thing; on the one hand you have players at provinces that can play together and produce wonderful rugby;

Stick em in a national team under a different coach and they are rubbish. Whats difficult to see?? Do you need a cloth to wipe your glasses??

Cpt_Blackbeard

irishbucsfan wrote: »

So you think our game plan and selection policy is spot on?!

Yes. That is exactly what I meant when I stated:

"Kidney can be blamed for a lot of things (selections, tactics etc.).."

:rolleyes:

Tox56

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

So you think our game plan and selection policy is spot on?!

Yes. That is exactly what I meant when I stated:

"Kidney can be blamed for a lot of things (selections, tactics etc.).."

:rolleyes:

So then you would like to see him go?

leftleg

Nope i think he means that its the players faults as well; they clearly arent good enough; look at HCup results since 2006; utter rubbish;

Cpt_Blackbeard

Tox56 wrote: »

So then you would like to see him go?

After the summer tour as I have previously stated, numerous times.

justsomebloke

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

The main premise appears to be explanations as to why Leinster players are unable to bring their provincial form to national level.

From my reading it was about how provincial players in general can be seen not to be stepping up to the mark from Munster players in the past to the current Leinster players. However should I be surprised that you are trying to twist it in such a manner that it is purely targeted at Leinster players probably not.

So I'd just like to remind people that some people are just looking for a reaction, please don't give it to them.