Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

totallegend

If we go on the form book and predict a Leinster-Ospreys final, therefore picking from the other three provinces, I'd be happy with:

15. Jones
14. Gilroy - surely deserves a go
13. Cave
12. Wallace - the form 12
11. Earls
10. Jackson - the value in playing ROG in a game like this is minimal
9. Murray - would love to see Marshall but hasn't played in weeks
1. Court
2. Best
3. Fitzpatrick
4. Tuohy
5. POC
6. POM - Ferris should be given the summer off (won't happen)
7. Henry - injury permitting
8. Coughlan

Bench: Archer, Loughney, Ryan, Muldoon, Marshall, ROG, Trimble

Fishooks12

totallegend wrote: »

If we go on the form book and predict a Leinster-Ospreys final, therefore picking from the other three provinces, I'd be happy with:

15. Jones
14. Gilroy - surely deserves a go
13. Cave
12. Wallace - the form 12
11. Earls
10. Jackson - the value in playing ROG in a game like this is minimal
9. Murray - would love to see Marshall but hasn't played in weeks
1. Court
2. Best
3. Fitzpatrick
4. Tuohy
5. POC
6. POM - Ferris should be given the summer off (won't happen)
7. Henry - injury permitting
8. Ruddock

Bench: Archer, Loughney, Ryan, Muldoon, Marshall, Keatley, Trimble

Nice team, don't think benching ROG or starting Coughlan would be of any benefit to either of them or Ireland so I've changed those two!

+1 on Paddy Wallace though, I'd have no problem with him starting in NZ either

Tox56

Hagan is unlikely to be in the Leinster 23, but maybe he should get a bench spot ahead of Archer? It's not exactly a shining endorsement from Leinster if he misses the possible Final, but Archer had his chance with the Wolfhounds.

irishbucsfan

The team will be, in the above case

Horan, Best, Court, DOC, O'Connell, Ferris, Wallace, O'Mahoney, Murray, O'Gara, Trimble, Wallace, Earls, Hurley/Kearney, Jones

Fishooks12

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The team will be, in the above case

Horan, Best, Court, DOC, O'Connell, Ferris, Wallace, O'Mahoney, Murray, O'Gara, Trimble, Wallace, Earls, Hurley/Kearney, Jones

Ah now we all know Kidneys conservative but if Marcus Horan plays I'll eat my hat

bilston

Tox56 wrote: »

As long as the likes of Tuohy/Henry/Cave get their fair chance to at least travel, they helped bring their team to a HEC Final, surely they cannot be ignored.

I think he should definitely travel to NZ but it wouldn't surprise me if Cave didn't. Equally i'm not sure Kidney is a huge Tuohy fan. I'd be very surprised if Henry didn't get a chance though.

Just thinking about a possible side to face the Barbarians if it is a Leinster v Munster final. I see no reason why bench players for Leinster and Munster shouldn't be available so on that basis the team might look like this

15 Gavin Duffy
14 Andrew Trimble
13 Darren Cave
12 Paddy Wallace
11 Craig Gilroy
10 Ian Madigan
9 Paul Marshall
1 Tom Court
2 Rory Best
3 Ronan Loughney
4 Mike McCarthy
5 Dan Tuohy
6 Dominic Ryan
7 Chris Henry
8 John Muldoon

16 Sean Cronin (if he didn't start potential final), 17 Declan Fitzpatrick, 18 Devin Toner, 19 Roger Wilson, 20 Tomas O'Leary, 21 Ian Keatley, 22 David Kearney

siltirocker

bilston wrote: »

I think he should definitely travel to NZ but it wouldn't surprise me if Cave didn't. Equally i'm not sure Kidney is a huge Tuohy fan. I'd be very surprised if Henry didn't get a chance though.

Just thinking about a possible side to face the Barbarians if it is a Leinster v Munster final. I see no reason why bench players for Leinster and Munster shouldn't be available so on that basis the team might look like this

15 Gavin Duffy
14 Andrew Trimble
13 Darren Cave
12 Paddy Wallace
11 Craig Gilroy
10 Ian Madigan
9 Paul Marshall
1 Tom Court
2 Rory Best
3 Ronan Loughney
4 Mike McCarthy
5 Dan Tuohy
6 Dominic Ryan
7 Chris Henry
8 John Muldoon

16 Sean Cronin (if he didn't start potential final), 17 Declan Fitzpatrick, 18 Devin Toner, 19 Roger Wilson, 20 Tomas O'Leary, 21 Ian Keatley, 22 David Kearney

Great team with the resources available. Some people were putting up mad stuff like putting Archer in or starting Jones over Duffy. I'd bring Wilkinson if fit also.

yimrsg

Ruddock would be a terrible choice at 8, he's a 6. He just doesn't seem to cut it playing at 8 at Leinster and would be totally out of his depth internationally. Putting POM at 8 and Ruddock at 6 would be better. I'd put Dominic Ryan, Auva'a and Butler ahead of Ruddock at 8 when it comes for international reckoning.

Fishooks12

siltirocker wrote: »

Great team with the resources available. Some people were putting up mad stuff like putting Archer in or starting Jones over Duffy. I'd bring Wilkinson if fit also.

Jones over Duffy isn't that mad infairness

Jones has been struggling with form this year since his injury and Duffy has been brilliant for Connacht but in the long term Duffy will never wear the Irish 15 jersey in a big game again. Jones is the future and showed enough last year to deserve to be involved

totallegend

Tox56 wrote: »

Hagan is unlikely to be in the Leinster 23, but maybe he should get a bench spot ahead of Archer? It's not exactly a shining endorsement from Leinster if he misses the possible Final, but Archer had his chance with the Wolfhounds.

Sorry, just realised I had Archer as the sub hooker when of course I meant Sherry.

But yeah, I would would have Archer behind Hagan and probably Macklin in the list of tight-heads. Did I read that Wilkinson was out of contention with injury?

siltirocker

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Jones over Duffy isn't that mad infairness

Jones has been struggling with form this year since his injury and Duffy has been brilliant for Connacht but in the long term Duffy will never wear the Irish 15 jersey in a big game again. Jones is the future and showed enough last year to deserve to be involved

Fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion but I always believed that if a player is playing better than others in a certain position he should be picked ahead of the others. End of.

It's not like Duffy is as old as O'Callaghan, Drico, ROG, etc.

totallegend

siltirocker wrote: »

Great team with the resources available. Some people were putting up mad stuff like putting Archer in or starting Jones over Duffy. I'd bring Wilkinson if fit also.

Presume that's me you're talking about... Archer was a typo, I meant Sherry, and as for the full-back position, I would totally agree with you that Duffy is much the better player and should be ahead of Jones, but:
a) DK has shown zero interest in Duffy
b) He seems to really rate Jones (I don't)
so I was just trying to be somewhat realistic.

Fishooks12

siltirocker wrote: »

Fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion but I always believed that if a player is playing better than others in a certain position he should be picked ahead of the others. End of.

It's not like Duffy is as old as O'Callaghan, Drico, ROG, etc.

I wouldn't have DOC or ROG near an Irish squad anymore, the reason Drico is ther is because he's still one of the best 13's in Europe

A good comparison with Duffy (whom I'm a big fan of btw) is Coughlan. Both having phenomenal years but both the wrong side of 30

I just don't see what a run out against the barabrians would do for them this late in the day. Much more productive to have younger players with serious potential involved

Tox56

siltirocker wrote: »

Fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion but I always believed that if a player is playing better than others in a certain position he should be picked ahead of the others. End of.

It's not like Duffy is as old as O'Callaghan, Drico, ROG, etc.

I think that is understandable if it is a full test series or similar, but this is a one-off game v Barbarians, where the primary aim should be to give players a chance to impress and breed young talent.

This is exactly the type of match people like Jones should be getting gametime in.

its_phil

bilston wrote: »

I think he should definitely travel to NZ but it wouldn't surprise me if Cave didn't. Equally i'm not sure Kidney is a huge Tuohy fan. I'd be very surprised if Henry didn't get a chance though.

Just thinking about a possible side to face the Barbarians if it is a Leinster v Munster final. I see no reason why bench players for Leinster and Munster shouldn't be available so on that basis the team might look like this

15 Gavin Duffy
14 Andrew Trimble
13 Darren Cave
12 Paddy Wallace
11 Craig Gilroy
10 Ian Madigan
9 Paul Marshall
1 Tom Court
2 Rory Best
3 Ronan Loughney
4 Mike McCarthy
5 Dan Tuohy
6 Dominic Ryan
7 Chris Henry
8 John Muldoon

16 Sean Cronin (if he didn't start potential final), 17 Declan Fitzpatrick, 18 Devin Toner, 19 Roger Wilson, 20 Tomas O'Leary, 21 Ian Keatley, 22 David Kearney

Agree with everything bar the backrow. I'd place Ryan at 7 first of all. Either put Muldoon at 6 or on the bench because Henry and Wilson will be more effective 8's. Muldoons not a bad 8, I think Henry and Muldoon are as good as each other in my opinion at 6 but Henry can slot in at 8 more effectively.

6. Henry/Muldoon 7. Ryan 8. Wilson/Henry

siltirocker

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I wouldn't have DOC or ROG near an Irish squad anymore, the reason Drico is ther is because he's still one of the best 13's in Europe

A good comparison with Duffy (whom I'm a big fan of btw) is Coughlan. Both having phenomenal years but both the wrong side of 30

I just don't see what a run out against the barabrians would do for them this late in the day. Much more productive to have younger players with serious potential involved

Christ he only turned 30 this season. And was younger than 16/17 members of our RWC Squad. Hardly time to put a player out to pasture.

Also I think Jones is like Murray is the overhype stakes. He has never shown me that he has what will make him a better FB than Duffy.

errlloyd

Interesting squads here, random question, if the baabaas is a non cap game can we play Strauss?

Tox56

siltirocker wrote: »

Christ he only turned 30 this season. And was younger than 16/17 members of our RWC Squad. Hardly time to put a player out to pasture.

Also I think Jones is like Murray is the overhype stakes. He has never shown me that he has what will make him a better FB than Duffy.

But what do you stand to gain from seeing what Duffy can do, we know what he is capable of, Jones is more of an unknown quantity.

Fishooks12

siltirocker wrote: »

Christ he only turned 30 this season. And was younger than 16/17 members of our RWC Squad. Hardly time to put a player out to pasture.

Also I think Jones is like Murray is the overhype stakes. He has never shown me that he has what will make him a better FB than Duffy.

Duffy is solid for Connacht but was never international standard IMO, that's not selling him short either he's a fantastic provincial player and all and he's probably a more complete player than Jones . Can't see him improving at this stage

Very harsh on Jones, he was easily Ireland's form 15 at the end of last season and might have even pushed Kearney (returning from injury) for the 15 shirt in the world cup had he stayed fit

its_phil

siltirocker wrote: »

Christ he only turned 30 this season. And was younger than 16/17 members of our RWC Squad. Hardly time to put a player out to pasture.

Also I think Jones is like Murray is the overhype stakes. He has never shown me that he has what will make him a better FB than Duffy.

I think Jones has got potential, but injury hasn't been his friend. Duffy has been sensational this year bar that absolute stinker versus the Saxons. I wouldn't argue with either selection if it was made. Obviously I'd like to see Duffy picked from a Connacht perspective but hey whatever.

Like the idea of a

6. POM
7. Ryan
8. Henry

back row. Could be fun at breakdown time

Fishooks12

Deleted User wrote: »

Like the idea of a

6. POM
7. Ryan
8. Henry

back row. Could be fun at breakdown time

Me likey

bilston

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I wouldn't have DOC or ROG near an Irish squad anymore, the reason Drico is ther is because he's still one of the best 13's in Europe

A good comparison with Duffy (whom I'm a big fan of btw) is Coughlan. Both having phenomenal years but both the wrong side of 30

I just don't see what a run out against the barabrians would do for them this late in the day. Much more productive to have younger players with serious potential involved

The thing is that you still need to have the experienced heads around the squad provided they are a positive influence. It doesn't matter so much against the Barbarians because the result is irrelevant but for example if say Paddy Jackson was starting at 10 you'd want him starting with an experienced 9, you see that at Ulster. At the start of the season he played with Paul Marshall at 9 and Luke Marshall at 12 and found it tough, but stik him between Pienaar and Wallace and it's a different ball game and he learns so much more and benefits from the experience. The same applies across the team. If you have say Zebo and Gilroy on the wings then it's probably better for them to have Duffy at FB who can boss them around and keep them right positionally rather than Jones who is still relatively inexperienced. So just dropping the experienced heads en masse would be a mistake IMO.

bilston

errlloyd wrote: »

Interesting squads here, random question, if the baabaas is a non cap game can we play Strauss?

I wouldn't have thought so.

totallegend

errlloyd wrote: »

Interesting squads here, random question, if the baabaas is a non cap game can we play Strauss?

That is an interesting question. I would have thought there's no reason they can't, but it wouldn't be a massive vote of confidence in whatever hooker gets left out to accomodate him but still has to get on the plane and go to NZ the following day...

Potential that Strauss could play for the Barbarians?

irishbucsfan

If Wilkinson is out, Horan will play.

Raisins

bilston wrote: »

I think he should definitely travel to NZ but it wouldn't surprise me if Cave didn't. Equally i'm not sure Kidney is a huge Tuohy fan. I'd be very surprised if Henry didn't get a chance though.

Just thinking about a possible side to face the Barbarians if it is a Leinster v Munster final. I see no reason why bench players for Leinster and Munster shouldn't be available so on that basis the team might look like this

15 Gavin Duffy
14 Andrew Trimble
13 Darren Cave
12 Paddy Wallace
11 Craig Gilroy
10 Ian Madigan
9 Paul Marshall
1 Tom Court
2 Rory Best
3 Ronan Loughney
4 Mike McCarthy
5 Dan Tuohy
6 Dominic Ryan
7 Chris Henry
8 John Muldoon

16 Sean Cronin (if he didn't start potential final), 17 Declan Fitzpatrick, 18 Devin Toner, 19 Roger Wilson, 20 Tomas O'Leary, 21 Ian Keatley, 22 David Kearney

Surely if it's between the two Fitzpatrick will get the nod ahead of Loughney after his performance in the semi final last weekend.

Edit: If Marcus Horan plays ahead of either Ireland doesn't deserve to have test calibre props.

blackhound

If Wilkinson is still out why not play Loughney at loosehead and Fitzpatrick at tighthead maybe bringing on court later in the game and moving Loughney to tighthead, that way we get to see a few possible combinations. In my opinion Loughney has to be given a chance in both positions as Court is not an international standard Tighthead, while Loughney is still a relatively unknown entity.

There is absolutely no valid argument to be made for Horan playing, may as well try players with potential than past their prime.

its_phil

Raisins wrote: »

Surely if it's between the two Fitzpatrick will get the nod ahead of Loughney after his performance in the semi final last weekend.

Edit: If Marcus Horan plays ahead of either Ireland doesn't deserve to have test calibre props.

Loughney has to start because he's been fantastic since the start of the year and realistically Fitzpatrick cannot cover both sides of the scrum while Loughney can which is what Ireland need on the bench for full internationals because Tom Court clearly can't because he doesn't play there for Ulster on a regular basis. He's a natural loosehead who can play tighthead very well.

Like Blackhound said play Loughney LH and Fitzpatrick at TH for the start of the game then take Fitzpatrick off at 50 min mark for Court and put Loughney at TH.