Kenny sacks Bruton

Laminations

FGers have to weigh up losing Kenny vs. Losing the frontbench. The latter would be far more damaging to the party. I can't believe Kenny isn't listening to his colleagues (colleagues who are trying to listen to the electorate)

Foxtrol

Laminations wrote: »

Kenny concludes meeting without allowing critics to voice their opinion. He just gave them a bollocking and walked out. Very brazen and not very adult

If true this is such a hypercritical move. Calling for a no confidence motion in the government and not allowing any dissent against himself. You know all the papers are out right now doing a full poll on Bruton and Kenny. If Bruton comes out on top in these polls then Kenny will have lost all credibility to lead the opposition, even if the party backs him.

dillodaffs

irishtimes poll

Do you think Fine Gael needs a new leader? 75% YES

25% NO


http://www.irishtimes.com/polls/index.cfm?fuseaction=yesnopoll&pollid=9401

nuff said.

Banned Account

rugbyman wrote: »

Ivan Yates is seen by many as being a good judge of situations.
Last night on TV he suggested that the numbers were with Kenny. He did go on to say that he would be damaged,perhaps irrereparable,( my words).

Funny - I was listening to Yates this morning and he seemed to reverse this - he was saying that the numbers are with Bruton. I am assuming that he still has contacts in the inner sanctum.

Barname

Where is Leo?

Laminations

dillodaffs wrote: »

irishtimes poll

Do you think Fine Gael needs a new leader? 75% YES

25% NO


http://www.irishtimes.com/polls/index.cfm?fuseaction=yesnopoll&pollid=9401

nuff said.

if they don't listen to the people, then they are as bad as FF continuing without a mandate

jmayo

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

If you know and I know and we all know that it is a lie does it matter?

You were the one that brought up the issue of timing. If Kenny had a word with Bruton behind closed doors and said "let's do this after today, we'll use today to screw FF further and then we'll rumble on wednesday" - don't forget that no statements were made until after the sacking - as I said above, up to this point it was all rumour. Kenny's move made it concrete.

This story took off the moment Bruton refused to endorse his leader and not when he was sacked FFS.
It was just not rumour then it was a fact he no longer supported Kenny.
If you can't see that then you are deluded.

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

Nothing like an auld dead baby comment to stir the emotions huh:rolleyes:

Yes I mentioned about the ultrasound story, because to a lot of people it was a shocking revelation.
To you maybe not, but for anyone that would have had to terminate because they were told that ultrasound showed no heartbeat it will always leave them wondering what might have been.

Of course as usual a lot of people who don't happen to have any dealings with our health service it doesn't matter two sh**s.

Always remember "there go I, but for the grace of God".

And trust me on this, even if you go private you can be compromised if you have to rely on public hospital, as I know someone discovered last week.

Harney should be harranged on it, but of course "this is Ireland the land of systemic failures where no one is at fault or responsible".

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

As mentioned above, the motion was ill timed and pointless, and how you think Mary Harney would have been discussed at a motion regarding confidence in Cowen is beyond me.

So after cowen was named as being one of the architects of our financial meltdown no one should have asked his party and governemnt supporters to vote on his fitness for office ?
Harney and the HSE is another issue that should been subject of debate this weekend, but it was also pushed off agenda due to Bruton's move.
See the link now ? :rolleyes:

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

The problem with attempting to debate you is that you are so blinkered that you see everything except "kill FF" as a pro-FF statement. Your posts swing eratically from Harney to dead babies to Brian cowen to RTE without any semblance of reasonable structure.

Yes I hate and detest ff for what they have always done to this country.
The sooner a few more people cop on to what they do to this country the sooner we avoid the messes they create.
BTW all issues I brought in above relate to how f***ed up this little old republic is at the moment.

celtic ride

Do you think Fine Gael needs a new leader?

75% YES

25% NO
The Irish Times Poll...today.

Judgement Day

Enda is a wily old fox and his pre-empting of Brutal's plans for this morning's meeting of the Front Bench was masterly. Even Rommel would have been caught by this strategy. I note that Paddy Power are now going with Enda as the next Taioseach at 6/4 whereas Brutal has slipped to 7/4. Great entertainment value just as long as the FG don't damage themselves too much as any sane person wants the present government out ASAP.

Judgement Day

celtic ride wrote: »

Do you think Fine Gael needs a new leader?

75% YES

25% NO
The Irish Times Poll...today.

Who cares about the Irish Times Poll - it's what the FG parliamentary party decide and they know that Enda Kenny will guide them safely into power whereas Brutal is an incompetent fool.

Laminations

Jmayo, Bruton had to make a move on Kenny, he has been polling disasterously for a long while and is accepted as a major stumbling block for many swing voters. Look at the IT poll results above- 75% want a new FG leader. Digging ones heels in is a dirty FF tactic, I'd rather not see Enda do that. And there would never have been a good time, FF are bouncing from crisis to scandal week on week. The banking report ammunition isn't gone to waste nor will it be the last 'shot' FG get to dismantle The government, once they can manage to not dismantle themselves.

simonj

What a surprise:rolleyes:, again we see the headless chickens running the coop, or ruining the coup perhaps, as Enda Kenny has fired one of the most popular deputies on his bench.

It also shows that FG, after a few polls not favouring Kenny, hit the panic button and head for self destruct.

At the age of 24 Enda Kenny - like Brian Cowen - was elected to the Dail to replace his father Harry died.

Kenny is currently the longest-serving TD in Dáil Éireann still in office, and is the incumbent Father of the Dáil.

He was challenged as leader by Richard Bruton, the brother of a former leader who - unlike his brother John - seems popular with people, and is very bright.

We want change in this country, we need a change in the way things work - but yet again, in the main opposition party, we see the same names and the same families and that will not deliver change.

With the set up that we have, dynastic politics are here to stay, and make no mistake about it - it wont change, as that requires legislation, so politicians voting to reform the way things are done on this Island is like turkeys voting for Christmas.

It is laughable when FG talk of reform, the same clans have been in politics since the foundation of the state.

They are as culpable as FF for the current system, which is not fit for purpose.


This jittery response also took the attention off FF and the banking reports published by Klaus Regling and Max Watson, which are far more serious issues than the internal squabbles of dynasties within FG

gandalf

Enda really should take this opportunity to stand down before Thursday and leave with dignity. Based on the latest developments his ego doesn't appear to want to let him take this route. This is a time for the senior members of FG to talk to Enda and direct him towards the right decision (stand down).

dillodaffs

the poll matters because thats some of the people of ireland stating an opinion... an overwhelming majority do not want enda as leader of fg.

Foxtrol

simonj wrote: »

This jittery response also took the attention off FF and the banking reports published by Klaus Regling and Max Watson, which are far more serious issues than the internal squabbles of dynasties within FG

Im sorry but the leadership battle for the person who is most likely to be the next leader of the country is a very serious issue.

I'll add that the banking reports are far from a complete condemnation of the government as you seem to believe. That is however a matter for another thread.

Judgement Day

gandalf wrote: »

Enda really should take this opportunity to stand down before Thursday and leave with dignity. Based on the latest developments his ego doesn't appear to want to let him take this route. This is a time for the senior members of FG to talk to Enda and direct him towards the right decision (stand down).

Right so the puffed-up schoolboy Brutal doesn't have an ego? Brutal has shown massive misjudgement in launching his coup when they have FF on the rack. If he is this bad at dealing with internal matters, what on earth makes people think he is fit to run the country.

SB-08

Judgement Day wrote: »

Who cares about the Irish Times Poll - it's what the FG parliamentary party decide and they know that Enda Kenny will guide them safely into power whereas Brutal is an incompetent fool.

This is the problem - FG are totally and utterly delusional if they still cannot see that the public simply do not want Enda Kenny. If Bruton is incompetent than what does that make Kenny? The man is considered a total joke, a laughing stock by a large number of the public, especially the floating voters. He simply cannot be taken seriously and for bloody obvious reasons. With the disaster of FF for the past few years especially, why on earth do you think FG are actually slipping when they should be doing the total opposite? Two words - Enda Kenny. It is that simple and if FG STILL cannot see this, something that is extremly obvious then how on earth are they fit to Govern?

gandalf

Judgement Day wrote: »

Right so the puffed-up schoolboy Brutal doesn't have an ego? Brutal has shown massive misjudgement in launching his coup when they have FF on the rack. If he is this bad at dealing with internal matters, what on earth makes people think he is fit to run the country.

And a certain other leader who still blames Lehman Brother for our difficulties even though two reports condemn his actions as Minister of Finance doesn't.

The only problem with Richard Bruton is that he should have pushed earlier at the time of the George Lee farce.

Foxtrol

Judgement Day wrote: »

Right so the puffed-up schoolboy Brutal doesn't have an ego? Brutal has shown massive misjudgement in launching his coup when they have FF on the rack. If he is this bad at dealing with internal matters, what on earth makes people think he is fit to run the country.

Bruton has a massive ego. FF are no were near on the rack. The Greens and FF show no signs of weakness and no signs that their coalition is going to break in the near future. In a political sense Brutons move is perfectly timed as FG are stagnating in the polls, having been overtaken by Labour of all parties, and Kenny's ratings are far from solid. This was his best opportunity to make a move for leadership.

gandalf

Foxtrol wrote: »

FF are no were near on the rack. The Greens and FF show no signs of weakness and no signs that their coalition is going to break in the near future.

Exactly if Eamon Ryan can sit beside the two leading lights of the FF defending them when the reports the Press Conference was about lays a lot of blame of the severity of the crisis on policies enacted by the then FF Minister of Finance our current Taoiseach then it is obvious that in reality this coalition government is going the full term.

Judgement Day

Foxtrol wrote: »

Bruton has a massive ego. FF are no were near on the rack. The Greens and FF show no signs of weakness and no signs that their coalition is going to break in the near future. In a political sense Brutons move is perfectly timed as FG are stagnating in the polls, having been overtaken by Labour of all parties, and Kenny's ratings are far from solid. This was his best opportunity to make a move for leadership.

Whatever about your other points I think you are in a minority of one if you seriously think this failed coup attempt was well timed.

deanh

dillodaffs wrote: »

irishtimes poll

Do you think Fine Gael needs a new leader? 75% YES

25% NO


http://www.irishtimes.com/polls/index.cfm?fuseaction=yesnopoll&pollid=9401

nuff said.

think we've had enough of 'irish times( so unreliable we have to change them to suit our agenda)' polls at this stage!

Liam Byrne

celtic ride wrote: »

Do you think Fine Gael needs a new leader?

75% YES

25% NO
The Irish Times Poll...today.

Remind me again what FF supporters tell us got us into this mess ?

Something along the lines that "FF gave the public what they said they wanted, instead of what was good for the country" ?

I've no idea whether Kenny or Bruton is better for FG, and after this week's fiasco there's a chance that I'll give up on both of them and just vote Labour and Independent (assuming the candidate has signed in blood that they won't contemplate supporting FF).

But knee-jerk reacting to a poll like this - particularly on a week like this - is crazy.

FF are sickening, but the fact is that their leader is every bit as unpopular, PLUS the content of the reports, and they're not even blinking!

Neither is what we need, since accountability is important, but why oh why does Ireland have to repeatedly shoot itself in the foot by lurching from one extreme to the other ?

Foxtrol

Judgement Day wrote: »

Whatever about your other points I think you are in a minority of one if you seriously think this failed coup attempt was well timed.

It is the best timing from his perspective. What is the likelihood of there being a better opportunity? It is doubtful that any other poll will put Labour ahead of FG again, especially in the run up to any election when Labour policies, or lack there of, come under the microscope. There could be another event to shake FG like these polls and George Lee have but its unlikely. As any attempt would more than likely be resisted by Kenny, he would also need time before the next election to unite the party and build his own policies and persona as the leader of the opposition.

If I was him I would have made an attempt at the leadership position before now but to be fair he probably wanted to give Kenny a chance.

invinciblePRSTV

SB-08 wrote: »

This is the problem - FG are totally and utterly delusional if they still cannot see that the public simply do not want Enda Kenny. If Bruton is incompetent than what does that make Kenny? The man is considered a total joke, a laughing stock by a large number of the public, especially the floating voters. He simply cannot be taken seriously and for bloody obvious reasons. With the disaster of FF for the past few years especially, why on earth do you think FG are actually slipping when they should be doing the total opposite? Two words - Enda Kenny. It is that simple and if FG STILL cannot see this, something that is extremly obvious then how on earth are they fit to Govern?

No it's not Enda Kenny that is FGs problem, it's rather FG adopting a hard right position in times of economic crisis where large swathes of the electorate are in trouble.

By adopting harsh rhetoric on the public sector & welfare reform FG have alienated potential supporters, With the elevation of Bruton and his ideological warriors like Varadker & Creighton to his front bench FG will do well to stay at 28-30% over the next few years as FFs voters desert en masse to Labour.

FG have delusions of replicating the electoral success of the 1980 Fitzgerald years, they fail to realise that Garrett came within a few seats of being the largest party in the country by adopting a more liberal/social democratic approach to policy formulation. Kenny is far better placed to win the middle ground ahead of PD lite types in Bruton & Varadkar.

Still it's all great fun for us Pol nerds to watch.

Judgement Day

Brutal is, like so many politicians, power obsessed. If he gets the leadership he will end up like Biffo and that fool Gordon Brown - with the job but not knowing why they wanted it or what to do with it. An overgrown schoolboy. FF should make him their new leader as he may well have saved their bacon.

Foxtrol

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

By adopting harsh rhetoric on the public sector & welfare reform FG have alienated potential supporters, With the elevation of Bruton and his ideological warriors like Varadker & Creighton to his front bench FG will do well to stay at 28-30% over the next few years as FFs voters desert en masse to Labour.

People wont leave either FF or FG "en masse to" Labour. Labour do not have the policies or the quality of candidates to live up to recent polls. They will be the Irish Lib Dems when it comes to opinion polls.

invinciblePRSTV

Foxtrol wrote: »

People wont leave either FF or FG "en masse to" Labour.

I said FF only. And it's already happened. FG need FF voters to switch to them and this isn't happening.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Labour do not have the policies or the quality of candidates to live up to recent polls. They will be the Irish Lib Dems when it comes to opinion polls.

Yes they do! Labour will clean up in the Dublin commuter belt and urban constituencies come election time. 32% is pushing it but it's hard to see Labour getting anything below 25% of the vote as it stands.

SB-08

Listening to some people on the news - how on earth can they seriously expect Kenny to continue as leader if the main team - Bruton, Leo, Hayes, Coveny etc - the majority of his front bench have expressed no confidence. It would be the very same if Lenehin, Martin, Ahern, Dempsy and Coughlan all expressed no confidence in Cowen - Kenny supporters would be obviously be calling for his head and righly so. With those big names Kenny will be left with the task of having to compile a new front bench of TD's with far less expertise and effectivness. The notion Kenny can go on even if he scrapes past the overall vote is laughable. O'Reilly aside, all his big guns have turned to Bruton.

Wide Road

It still comes down to why Enda sacked Richard yesterday and allowing his other front bench opponents to remain intact. This will damage Enda. Plus Dr O'Reilly said yesterday that after the vote of confidence, R Brutan will return to the front bench. This is untrue, according to Richard himself last night. Still a lot of questions to be answered, whoever is the leader.