Kenny sacks Bruton

johngalway · 15-06-2010 3:03pm

musings wrote: »

Richard Bruton is an arrogant chap

....... John Deasy maybe

John Deasy would do better work for FG if he joined FF.

Bruton arrogant compared to Deasy? I think not. Deasy is some type of man-child.

Wide Road · 15-06-2010 3:14pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

He didn't want Richard at the meeting as I doubt he would have let Enda walk out without there being a proper discussion.

Ah come on, you're better than that. You reckon Enda sacked Richard because Richard wouldn't let Enda close the parliamentry meeting. Please Please, do better.

Banned Account · 15-06-2010 3:16pm

Wide Road wrote: »

Ah come on, you're better than that. You reckon Enda sacked Richard because Richard wouldn't let Enda close the parliamentry meeting. Please Please, do better.

Enda sacked Richard because he's prone to making rash political judgements - this is also the reason he had to decide whether or not to sack Richard in the first place. It is also the reason he's polled so badly over the past few months.

Aidric · 15-06-2010 3:19pm

jmayo wrote: »

This would be same fionnan sheehan whose wife was 90 grand a year advisor to mary hannafin and then stood as council candidate for ff in North County Dublin ?
The same missus who was big in ogra ff and TCD students union ?

What the hell has that got to do with the point he made about Kenny? It's factually correct, not some conspiracy.

Banned Account · 15-06-2010 3:23pm

Aidric wrote: »

What the hell has that got to do with the point he made about Kenny? It's factually correct, not some conspiracy.

This is to do with the fact that some people see every post as an opportunity to whinge about the FF party - it gets a bit tedious after a while.

Bill2673 · 15-06-2010 3:24pm

Sully wrote: »

Bad timing all around for this and it shows again the flaws of the FG party that never go away. Seems the old FG is far from behind them.

I can see why there are doubts about Kenny, but I don't blame him for the party doing poorly. One man can not be solely responsible for a party not functioning the way it should. Perhaps one needs to look at the bigger picture here, as well as addressing the Kenny issue?

Can Bruton build on the Kenny success? Does he really have leadership qualities? Why cant the 9 front bench members just try deal with this internally, rather then running to RTE and inflicting more wounds on the party? Should Kenny be given the boot now, just a result of a slippage in a few polls or should the party and himself be given one big proper boot and told to cop the **** on and do their job, without worrying who sits at the top table.

FG need a lesson on how to deal with its own affairs. No other party would have this constant dark cloud hanging over it. They need to take a leaf out of FFs book and learn how to master the art of running a party.

I have my doubts that FG can win an election now, I fear they have shot themselves in the foot for what they believe is the "common good" for the party and the people. Most people may want Bruton, or someone other then Kenny, but I cant see how that one person is going to pull the party together the way it should be operating and put FG miles ahead in the poll and wiping the floor with FF. Labour etc. can be the soap.

I think Kenny has done wonders for the party overall and that needs to be recognized by all, and considered when the front bench draw knifes. Can sacking Kenny really make the party work, really? Is it perhaps the party at fault and not Kenny?

Who knows at this stage.

I enjoyed reading this, you've made some good points. The 'common good' thing is rubbish, obviously. Fine Gael has nobody (that I can see) with the gravitas for leadership. They have a lot of people who love media attention. Hence the 9 on the lawn chatting to RTE.

Bill2673 · 15-06-2010 3:27pm

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

Enda sacked Richard because he's prone to making rash political judgements - this is also the reason he had to decide whether or not to sack Richard in the first place. It is also the reason he's polled so badly over the past few months.

Disagree with this, people don't like Kenny because he comes across as boorish on TV. Most punters, myself included, don't know all that much about his 'rash political judgements'....go down the main street in any Irish town ask people if they think Enda Kenny has good political judgement or not, and people will not know one way or the other. Obviously people who follow politics closely will have a different view. Hence, I think you are missing the wood for the trees here. My opinion anyway.

Ecu · 15-06-2010 3:29pm

johngalway wrote: »

....
Realising that his own popularity is damaging to FG would command more respect from me, a FG voter, than digging in in what will likely turn out to either be a futile bid to retain leadership or one which will split the party.
....

Or it may be a turning point in how people perceive Enda Kenny and his potential to fight, lead and follow through on difficult decisions.
Popularity is after all a whimsical thing and we would certainly expect a Taoiseach to deal with issues as and more difficult.

As a sometimes FG voter, Enda has just got a bit more interesting.

Wide Road · 15-06-2010 3:32pm

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

Enda sacked Richard because he's prone to making rash political judgements - this is also the reason he had to decide whether or not to sack Richard in the first place. It is also the reason he's polled so badly over the past few months.

Why not sack the other front bench rebels as well, especially when Enda has a new front bench next week, that's if he wins of course.

forestman · 15-06-2010 3:32pm

From the RTE Website (Any Surprises?):

Nine members of the Fine Gael frontbench have said they do not have confidence in Enda Kenny to lead their party - comprising Simon Coveney, Denis Naughten, Olwyn Enright, Olivia Mitchell, Fergus O'Dowd, Michael Creed, Billy Timmins, Leo Varadkar and Brian Hayes.
Spokesperson Denis Naughten said frontbench members do not have Enda Kenny's support and would like him to withdraw his motion of confidence and stand down in the interest of the party.
He said the leadership contest, which is now inevitable, will be extremely damaging for the party.

Advertisement

Mr Naughten said Mr Kenny had 'shut down' a meeting of the party's frontbench this morning.
He said the move had disappointed the group of TDs who had wanted to discuss the future of the party and his leadership with him.
Denis Naughten said he has privately had reservations over Enda Kenny's leadership for some time but has not publicly expressed them.
He said he and his colleagues had wanted to discuss those issues privately with Enda Kenny but that had not been possible.
Denis Naughten said the majority of the frontbench is not supportive of Enda Kenny's leadership and he said that it is his belief that situation is replicated within the wider parliamentary party.
Mr Naughten said it was extremely difficult for him to speak against Mr Kenny but he said he had no alternative given the way the situation has been handled by Mr Kenny.
Kenny announces reshuffle plans
Earlier, Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny said he will announce a major reshuffle of his party's frontbench next week.
Mr Kenny told his frontbench of the news at a meeting this morning, which followed the sacking of Richard Bruton as deputy leader yesterday.
His spokesman said Mr Kenny told a few 'home truths' to his colleagues about what had been going on over the last few months and with Mr Burton over the last few days.
In a statement after the meeting, Mr Kenny said he looked forward to all 70 members of the parliamentary party having their say on Thursday.
Mr Kenny is said to have told his colleagues that it would be the parliamentary party, and not what he called a small group on the frontbench, who would decide the leadership of Fine Gael.
The party leader said there had been a failure of collective responsibility in recent months and suggested that over that period, Mr Bruton had not been as available to the media as he had been previously.
Before leaving, Mr Kenny told his colleagues this would be the last meeting of the current frontbench ahead of the reshuffle.

Party split by leadership struggle
Speaking on RTÉ's [URL="javascript:showRadioPlayer("/news/morningireland/player.html?20100615,2771030,2771061,real,209")"]Morning Ireland[/URL] Fine Gael Health Spokesperson Dr James Reilly said he is confident that Mr Kenny has a substantial majority of the parliamentary party.
He said Mr Kenny was a leader of great integrity, despite perceived problems about his ability to communicate.
Fine Gael Defence Spokesperson Jimmy Deenihan said the current difficulties are unprecedented and he was supporting Mr Kenny.
The leader of the Fine Gael delegation in the European Parliament has said the four Fine Gael MEPs would be backing Enda Kenny in Thursday's vote of confidence.
Gay Mitchell criticised some on the Fine Gael frontbench for the timing of the move against the party leader.
When asked to comment on Richard Bruton's actions, the Dublin MEP said the issue should not have raised its head at this time, adding that no one will thank Fine Gael for taking the heat off the Government when it is at 17% in the opinion polls.
He said the party needed the current unrest like 'a hole in the head'.
Mr Mitchell said that some in Fianna Fáil would be 'rubbing their hands and having great fun' and that some on the frontbench would have to ask themselves why they brought this about.
He said that there seemed to be a feeling on the frontbench that once they had made a decision, the case [sic] was up, but said that the parliamentary party decides who is leader of Fine Gael.
The Dublin MEP admitted that there was discontent within the party and said the issues would be dealt with.
However, he said that under Enda Kenny's leadership the party has more council seats than Labour and Fianna Fáil combined, and has more seats than any other Irish party in the European Parliament.
He also insisted that whoever wins the Fine Gael party leadership would be Taoiseach.

johngalway · 15-06-2010 3:40pm

Ecu wrote: »

Or it may be a turning point in how people perceive Enda Kenny and his potential to fight, lead and follow through on difficult decisions.
Popularity is after all a whimsical thing and we would certainly expect a Taoiseach to deal with issues as and more difficult.

As a sometimes FG voter, Enda has just got a bit more interesting.

Yes, but popularity without most of his front bench? There are practicalities to be observed here. How can you say one week you have no confidence in your leader, then slip back onto the front bench the next. It would be incredible.

Foxtrol · 15-06-2010 3:45pm

Wide Road wrote: »

Ah come on, you're better than that. You reckon Enda sacked Richard because Richard wouldn't let Enda close the parliamentry meeting. Please Please, do better.

I dont believe Richard would have let him say his piece and leave. I also think Enda made the rash decision in the hope that through sacking Richard and by saying he was going to reshuffle the front bench he would make an example and put the fear in the others to not stand up against him. He got it completely wrong as 9 of them walked out the door and straight out for a chat with the media. The whole move was tantamount to political suicide.

anonymous_joe · 15-06-2010 3:52pm

Inda's bluffed on a weak hand.

Nobody really seems to like or respect Enda Kenny. That's something of a problem in a potential leader.

Banned Account · 15-06-2010 3:54pm

Bill2673 wrote: »

Disagree with this, people don't like Kenny because he comes across as boorish on TV. Most punters, myself included, don't know all that much about his 'rash political judgements'....go down the main street in any Irish town ask people if they think Enda Kenny has good political judgement or not, and people will not know one way or the other. Obviously people who follow politics closely will have a different view. Hence, I think you are missing the wood for the trees here. My opinion anyway.

Fair point - should split it up a bit - the political judgement covers the Reason for Sacking Bruton and the reason for having to consider it in the first place.

The likeness to Pat Kenny covers the rest.

Wide Road wrote: »

Why not sack the other front bench rebels as well, especially when Enda has a new front bench next week, that's if he wins of course.

This is the question - to my mind, if Kenny had turned round and sacked 10 front benchers, he would have written his death warrant immediately. Somehow, he seems to think that getting rid of Bruton was the correct thing to do - despite the fact that the net effect is the same.

He should have let sleeping dogs lie, ignored the murmurs until this evening then locked the party behind closed doors and not come out until they have an agreed leader and unity.

yahoo_moe · 15-06-2010 4:13pm

Wide Road wrote: »

Why not sack the other front bench rebels as well, especially when Enda has a new front bench next week, that's if he wins of course.

You know you're allowed post different things here, right? And offer your own opinion at some point? I only ask because you've got 12 posts and you just keep asking the same question.

At the time he sacked Bruton, there were only 2 declared rebels - Bruton himself (in private at that stage) and O'Dowd (from the US). It'd seem he was trying to nip the whole thing in the bud, a fair approach given that they hadn't shown much stomach for a fight at that point.

SB-08 · 15-06-2010 4:21pm

Just watching the Dail coverage live on rte's website - Kenny was his usual wooden self, Gilmore did his usual sound bites. However Ruairi Quinn is now speaking and is his usual convincing self - he is vastly superior to Cowen, Kenny, Gilmore or Bruton put together. No script needed - he is being far more hard hitting than any of them and is far more effective. If Bruton is the next Taoiseach, then Quinn should be the next Minister Of Finance imo. He is by far the most impressive and has just made a fool of Cowen unlike Enda and Gilmore.

johngalway · 15-06-2010 4:25pm

SB-08 wrote: »

Just watching the Dail coverage live on rte's website - Kenny was his usual wooden self, Gilmore did his usual sound bites. However Ruairi Quinn is now speaking and is his usual convincing self - he is vastly superior to Cowen, Kenny, Gilmore or Bruton put together. No script needed - he is being far more hard hitting than any of them and is far more effective. If Bruton is the next Taoiseach, then Quinn should be the next Minister Of Finance imo. He is by far the most impressive and has just made a fool of Cowen unlike Enda and Gilmore.

In fairness, Quinn done a good job in Finance in the Rainbow.

Ecu · 15-06-2010 4:33pm

johngalway wrote: »

Yes, but popularity without most of his front bench? There are practicalities to be observed here. How can you say one week you have no confidence in your leader, then slip back onto the front bench the next. It would be incredible.

Incredible maybe, but not exactly new in politics. While there is a chance of influencing the outcome of a leadership contest, a serious contender would go for it. Time enough to kiss and make up later.

Wide Road · 15-06-2010 4:41pm

yahoo_moe wrote: »

You know you're allowed post different things here, right? And offer your own opinion at some point? I only ask because you've got 12 posts and you just keep asking the same question.

At the time he sacked Bruton, there were only 2 declared rebels - Bruton himself (in private at that stage) and O'Dowd (from the US). It'd seem he was trying to nip the whole thing in the bud, a fair approach given that they hadn't shown much stomach for a fight at that point.

I've asked why Enda sacked Richard Bruton. I've asked why Enda didn't sack the front bench rebels, (both moves can't be right IMO). I've also asked if Dr O'Reilly was right when he said that Enda would have Richard in his front bench after Enda won the confidence vote, (no way judging by tv last night).I can't see how this is the same question.

cremeegg · 15-06-2010 4:52pm

im looking for an excuse to vote fine gael... and richard bruton is that excuse...

johngalway · 15-06-2010 4:56pm

If George Lee had been what people thought he was, it would have been great to have Bruton as leader, Kenny as organiser in chief, and Lee for Finance.

Unfortunately that's the view from a somewhat perfect world!

rugbyman · 15-06-2010 4:59pm

Wide Road wrote: »

I've asked why Enda sacked Richard Bruton. I've asked why Enda didn't sack the front bench rebels, (both moves can't be right IMO). I've also asked if Dr O'Reilly was right when he said that Enda would have Richard in his front bench after Enda won the confidence vote, (no way judging by tv last night).I can't see how this is the same question.

Welcome to Boards ,Wide Road

Bruton told kenny on Sunday that he had no confidence in him.
kenny sacked Bruton the next day, monday.
the nine expressed no confidence on tuesday, today.
there need not be a one size fits all approach to sackings.
IF kenny wins on thurs presumably next week you will get some of your expected sackings.

Rugbyman

Wide Road · 15-06-2010 5:01pm

johngalway wrote: »

If George Lee had been what people thought he was, it would have been great to have Bruton as leader, Kenny as organiser in chief, and Lee for Finance.

Unfortunately that's the view from a somewhat perfect world!

A few months ago fg had 2 men for finance. Today they have none. Thanks to Richard on both counts.

Wide Road · 15-06-2010 5:23pm

rugbyman wrote: »

Welcome to Boards ,Wide Road

Bruton told kenny on Sunday that he had no confidence in him.
kenny sacked Bruton the next day, monday.
the nine expressed no confidence on tuesday, today.
there need not be a one size fits all approach to sackings.
IF kenny wins on thurs presumably next week you will get some of your expected sackings.

Rugbyman

Thanks for your welcome onto boards.ie. I believe V Browne will be very interesting tonight if both sides of the fg split are on the panel. Last night Vincent struck on the reason why Enda sacked Richard. I believe that Vincent will harp on tonight about why none of the front bench rebels were sacked today. IMO Enda can't do both. What's this story on the news now about early morning meetings in a hotel car park. Just heard the end of this story on the radio.

Sand · 15-06-2010 8:56pm

The split is unfortunate but not for the reasons mentioned regarding the no confidence motion in Cowen - that was always going to be a by the numbers piece of theatre where everyone would talk for a bit and then the TDs would vote by party, Cowen would survive and then Greena Fail would stumble on to the next evidence of their complete and total failure. The total fixiation on this no confidence poll by the political media is head scratching...was there ever a chance Cowen would lose it? Seriously?

Its unfortunate because Kenny has decided to fight a scorched earth campaign, where if he cant be Fine Gael leader then hes going to fight so bitter and divisive and ultimately doomed a campaign that no one successor will be able to unite the party.

He cant pretend this is a reaction to a single poll. It isnt - its a reaction to a long running lack of public support for him as a leader. Hes admitted that he lacks the skills needed to communicate with an audience - the "From now on Im going to be myself" pledge in response to the last bout of discontent in FG, plus the Lee defection, and the simple fact that FG are facing the most incompetent and hated government in generations, and cant seem to land a solid blow. The only competition they have for protest votes is a Labour party that cant simply express a view or opinion without simultaneously denying it.

Kenny has a right to be annoyed that hes being judged in a political popularity contest. I have little time for the "Ah shure, I wont vote for FG because Kenny is leader, and he has a funny looking head on him" type insight that seems to inform the political classes, but whatever. Bruton didnt force the fight - he simply refused to express confidence in Kenny when challenged to do so on the latest evidence that Kenny is not delivering FG electoral support. Kenny demanded a public statement of support from Bruton, Bruton refused and Kenny escalated it into a full blow leadership contest. It has been Kenny setting the timing on this, not Bruton. Id have preferred he sound out his front bench, get the lie of the land and the public mood and stand aside to continue on his work for the party in a role more in tune with his skills. Now he will be forced to the backbenches where at worst he will seethe and plot and at best he will simply be invisible.

The problem with Kenny's strategy of trying to intimidate Bruton by forcing him to put up or shut up is that while the FG party might not welcome a leadership stuggle, when one is forced upon them and the options are simply:

Kenny: Nice guy, did a good job patching the party up, demonstrated inability to capitalise on the weakest government in generations in the middle of utter economic meltdown: 50 ish seats in 2012

vs.

Bruton: Nice guy, very strong on economic matters, strong popularity with floating voters, very strong in the Dail, 75 ish seats in 2012...

Then the choice is clear. Kenny has badly miscalculated IMO by forcing a put up or shut up struggle - they might not have wanted a leadership contest, but if forced to choose they will choose Bruton.

15-06-2010 9:25pm

Sand wrote: »

Then the choice is clear. Kenny has badly miscalculated IMO by forcing a put up or shut up struggle - they might not have wanted a leadership contest, but if forced to choose they will choose Bruton.

I don't think kenny has thought about it at all,he's just gone ahead and done this.
Twas wierd hearing him use the words in the Dáil today "do the honourable thing and resign"

The more I hear kenny and see what he does and the fact he needs to be spoonfed so much,the more I think both he and what few diehard supporters he has left are such absolute incompetant gom's.

irishh_bob · 15-06-2010 9:42pm

SB-08 wrote: »

Just watching the Dail coverage live on rte's website - Kenny was his usual wooden self, Gilmore did his usual sound bites. However Ruairi Quinn is now speaking and is his usual convincing self - he is vastly superior to Cowen, Kenny, Gilmore or Bruton put together. No script needed - he is being far more hard hitting than any of them and is far more effective. If Bruton is the next Taoiseach, then Quinn should be the next Minister Of Finance imo. He is by far the most impressive and has just made a fool of Cowen unlike Enda and Gilmore.

quinn is on the ( right ) of the labour party , under gilmore the party has moved sharply to the left so i doubt he would get the gig if a labour td was appointed that ministry

dusty207 · 15-06-2010 9:51pm

Problem in Ireland is that we think that we have (somewhere in the murk of the Dail) decent, effective and non-partisan leadership, as in doing things for the good of the population. Not! All parties are looking towards their own agendas, their own survival, their own salaries and pensions. The last couple of years have proved this beyond all doubt and the recent shenanigans in all parties have all been to their own ends. There isn't one party worth voting for based on their care for the people, none give a damn for me, as a person, they are all fighting based on their attacks on each other. FF, FG and Labour (I won't even mention the Greens, who sold out for their pensions the minute they got into power) live for their own survival with no regards for the people.
Happy to retract this if anybody can give me good reason.

yahoo_moe · 15-06-2010 10:13pm

Varadkar has just said on Prime Time that he's "absolutely certain" the Bruton faction have the numbers.

Right or wrong, he's certainly a better performer than Reilly who just stumbled through an attempted point on the unreliability of these kinds of polls. There was a point there to be made but he fluffed it.

Oh, and now Reilly has said he's certain of their numbers too... OH AND HE HAS A LIST!

yahoo_moe · 15-06-2010 10:17pm

Wide Road wrote: »

I've asked why Enda sacked Richard Bruton. I've asked why Enda didn't sack the front bench rebels, (both moves can't be right IMO).

Well given your opinion, it's basically just one two-part question. Answered already anyway so at least we're done with that...

I've also asked if Dr O'Reilly was right when he said that Enda would have Richard in his front bench after Enda won the confidence vote, (no way judging by tv last night)

I've no idea, though he's just said something similar again on Prime Time. And to be honest, I don't see how you'll get a reliable answer on this from an online forum that isn't (to my knowledge) used openly by Enda Kenny.

Kenny sacks Bruton

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