Kenny sacks Bruton

invinciblePRSTV

Judgement Day wrote: »

Brutal is, like so many politicians, power obsessed. If he gets the leadership he will end up like Biffo and that fool Gordon Brown - with the job but not knowing why they wanted it or what to do with it. An overgrown schoolboy. FF should make him their new leader as he may well have saved their bacon.

Indeed, lets accept that Bruton is really no different to Kenny. Both are members of dynasties and have spent a lifetime in the cocoon of Dail Eireann. And for all his vaunted economic experience Bruton was still happy to sign off on FGs delusional 2007 manifesto.

SB-08

Listening to some people on the news - how on earth can they seriously expect Kenny to continue as leader if the main team - Bruton, Leo, Hayes, Coveny etc - the majority of his front bench have expressed no confidence. It would be the very same if Lenehin, Martin, Ahern, Dempsy and Coughlan all expressed no confidence in Cowen - Kenny supporters would be obviously be calling for his head and righly so. With those big names Kenny will be left with the task of having to compile a new front bench of TD's with far less expertise and effectivness. The notion Kenny can go on even if he scrapes past the overall vote is laughable. O'Reilly aside, all his big guns have turned to Bruton.

gandalf

gandalf wrote: »

Black Briar wasn't Dr Reilly brought into FG by Enda. I assume he is defending him out of loyalty. I wouldn't condemn him because of that.

The interesting thing is now we have this push against Kenny yet we have another leader of a party with an even lower satisfaction rating whose party have even less support. How long are they going to last because if they lead that party into the next election they will be decimated.

Seems to me that all the FF TD's are like a pack of bunnies paralysed by the headlights of an onrushing General Election.

Tbh I'm cringing at phil hogan ,Dr Reilly and a few more of them at that.
I've no confidence in them if they think that Kenny is so great.

They have crap priorities.

As regards this current government-Well it's going to limp on for another year or two.
I don't understand what the fuss is about timing in that regard.
Shur it's only 1 motion of no confidence,there'll be plenty more of them.
The banking thing isn't going to be gone in another month or two if it takes that long to get a new FG leader.

Best thing now is get rid of Kenny from the top table,hand him the yellow rosette and let FG do what it's capable of doing when led properly and thats picking up votes.

SB-08

SB-08 wrote: »

Listening to some people on the news - how on earth can they seriously expect Kenny to continue as leader if the main team - Bruton, Leo, Hayes, Coveny etc - the majority of his front bench have expressed no confidence. It would be the very same if Lenehin, Martin, Ahern, Dempsy and Coughlan all expressed no confidence in Cowen - Kenny supporters would be obviously be calling for his head and righly so. With those big names Kenny will be left with the task of having to compile a new front bench of TD's with far less expertise and effectivness. The notion Kenny can go on even if he scrapes past the overall vote is laughable. O'Reilly aside, all his big guns have turned to Bruton.

Because and pardon my french,they are stupid.

One of them is on the radio as I type saying they are getting calls from all round the country saying to back kenny.

What a load of bollox.

Foxtrol

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

I said FF only. And it's already happened. FG need FF voters to switch to them and this isn't happening.

They aren't switching because the other option is Kenny. Gilmore has shown nothing in the way of policies just that he is better at throwing stones and sound bites.

Yes they do! Labour will clean up in the Dublin commuter belt and urban constituencies come election time. 32% is pushing it but it's hard to see Labour getting anything below 25% of the vote as it stands.

Labour simply don't have the number of quality candidates or base in enough areas to become the biggest party in the country. As it comes towards an election the shift in most parts of the country will be from FF to FG or independents.

yoshytoshy

This shows kenny's mentality ,he is no different to fianna fail ,it doesn't matter what peoples expertise are ,mates are more important.

I'll be voting for the new fine gael ,they won't exist with kenny as leader.

jmayo

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

No it's not Enda Kenny that is FGs problem, it's rather FG adopting a hard right position in times of economic crisis where large swathes of the electorate are in trouble.

By adopting harsh rhetoric on the public sector & welfare reform FG have alienated potential supporters, With the elevation of Bruton and his ideological warriors like Varadker & Creighton to his front bench FG will do well to stay at 28-30% over the next few years as FFs voters desert en masse to Labour.

FG have delusions of replicating the electoral success of the 1980 Fitzgerald years, they fail to realise that Garrett came within a few seats of being the largest party in the country by adopting a more liberal/social democratic approach to policy formulation. Kenny is far better placed to win the middle ground ahead of PD lite types in Bruton & Varadkar.

Still it's all great fun for us Pol nerds to watch.

A lot of truth in this post.
If Bruton wins this week, the party and the public will find out that even if he is good at talking economics he will not be the great messiah that some think.

He has handled this extremly badly.
People say he had to act when he did, but all he had to do was wait until this evening or tomorrow.
Let cowen, ff and the greens stew over the weekend.
But no he gives them a free pass.

Alright the confidence vote would probably have been won by biffo, but at least there would have been a weekend of nerves as the backbenchers and greens did a soul searching operation that might have resulted in one or two of them discovering their long lost spines.

Instead he let mirriam o'callaghan (another ff linked media person) lure him into starting a heave at the same time they were trying to oust the leader of the opposition.
How f***ing naieve and ill judged is that ?
Was he so scared that cowen would be gone and that Enda would be in charge for election ?
I can't believe that.

The ultimate disaster would if he does win and he promotes malcontents and ambigious arrogant gobsh***es like creighton and deasy.

Foxtrol wrote: »

People wont leave either FF or FG "en masse to" Labour. Labour do not have the policies or the quality of candidates to live up to recent polls. They will be the Irish Lib Dems when it comes to opinion polls.

Labour are running high because all people ever hear is Happy Gilmore making funny witty speeches on the TV (coutesy of some nice TV editing where others are not shown on evening news) and he has been seen to come out in favour of no paycuts for public servants.
Labour's solution appears to be to tax the rich and no major cuts.
That is not going to work I am afraid.

Ecu

For all you conspiracy theorists. The whole FG leadership battle looks like a staged internal job to counter slipping poll figures. After all it has heightened interest in the party (no such thing as bad publicity), shows Kenny has fire in his belly after all, and has got a lot of the country considering the leadership qualities of FG, good and bad.
For now Bruton is the fall guy, but with some "for the good of the country" and "party unity" speeches he could be back in the fold come election time, and doing what he does best, handling Finance.
This would explain the timing of the proposed coup, Bruton's interview giggles and Kenny's apparent heavy handed manner of dealing with the dissidents.


Do you think Fine Gael needs a new leader?
Yes and it could be the Enda Kenny we've seen in the last few days.

invinciblePRSTV

Foxtrol wrote: »

They aren't switching because the other option is Kenny.

If only it were that black and white. Voter behaviour is a lot more complex then party leader A or B, as i say FG will have difficulty breaking out of of the 28-30% support category irrespective of leader.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Labour simply don't have the number of quality candidates or base in enough areas to become the biggest party in the country. As it comes towards an election the shift in most parts of the country will be from FF to FG or independents.

Again i never said Labour will become the biggest party in the country, what i did say is that Labour will do extremely well even if they only win 22-25% of the vote. Off that they can expect anything from 35-45 seats and become the kingmakers in any coalition agreement.

Wide Road

Why did Enda sack Richard yesterday? WHY?

gandalf

SB-08 wrote: »

Listening to some people on the news - how on earth can they seriously expect Kenny to continue as leader if the main team - Bruton, Leo, Hayes, Coveny etc - the majority of his front bench have expressed no confidence. It would be the very same if Lenehin, Martin, Ahern, Dempsy and Coughlan all expressed no confidence in Cowen - Kenny supporters would be obviously be calling for his head and righly so. With those big names Kenny will be left with the task of having to compile a new front bench of TD's with far less expertise and effectivness. The notion Kenny can go on even if he scrapes past the overall vote is laughable. O'Reilly aside, all his big guns have turned to Bruton.

Kennys position is now untenable. It is up to him on whether serious damage is done to the party. If he decides to hang on to the bitter end then there will a bloodbath if he decides to stand down with dignity before Thursday then the damage to FG will be minimal and they can concentrate on attacking the inept Government we are lumbered with at the moment.

Even his close advisers should see the writing on the wall and advise him accordingly.

nacho libre

Wide Road wrote: »

Why did Enda sack Richard yesterday? WHY?

because most humans when their job is in peril will do anything to stay on. very few people will resign their post voluntarily.
re the timing of this heave, yes the banking fiasco will be with us for a long time to come, but focus at the present time is acutely on Cowen's role in the crisis. i suspect the focus will lessen as times goes on so Bruton has done FF a big favour by striking now.
i mean the whole vote of confidence in Cowen is a farce, when the man opposite him hasn't the confident of most of his senior colleagues.

BlaasForRafa

Nine members of Fine Gaels front bench have expresses no confidence in Kenny, iirc Ivan Yates estimated 10 on the Frontline program last night, guess thats why he's a bookie. It looks more and more untenable for Kenny now, surely he can't last much longer if half of his own front bench don't have confidence in his leadership

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0615/finegael.html

Bill2673

Ecu wrote: »

For all you conspiracy theorists. The whole FG leadership battle looks like a staged internal job to counter slipping poll figures. After all it has heightened interest in the party (no such thing as bad publicity), shows Kenny has fire in his belly after all, and has got a lot of the country considering the leadership qualities of FG, good and bad.
For now Bruton is the fall guy, but with some "for the good of the country" and "party unity" speeches he could be back in the fold come election time, and doing what he does best, handling Finance.
This would explain the timing of the proposed coup, Bruton's interview giggles and Kenny's apparent heavy handed manner of dealing with the dissidents.


Do you think Fine Gael needs a new leader?
Yes and it could be the Enda Kenny we've seen in the last few days.

Your last point is an interesting one. As a neutral, I always saw Kenny as a liability, as a wally basically, and not Taoiseach material. Sacking Bruton changes my opinion of him, hats off to him for it.

Fine Gael may well get rid of Kenny, but they have no obvious alternative candidate who will command the respect of the general electorate.

Wide Road

Enda says he will form a new front bench next week so why sack Richard now and allow the other front bench opponents remain. The reason for sacking Richard yesterday is coming back to haunt him because of his failure to deal with his front bench rebels. WHY or WHO is advising Enda?

BlaasForRafa

Wide Road wrote: »

Enda says he will form a new front bench next week so why sack Richard now and allow the other front bench opponents remain. The reason for sacking Richard yesterday is coming back to haunt him because of his failure to deal with his front bench rebels. WHY or WHO is advising Enda?

Who is he going to get if 9 (plus Bruton) express no confidence in him?

He'll have to start appointing the cabbages on the back benches to the shadow cabinet and that isn't going to make his party look very credible.

Judgement Day

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Who is he going to get if 9 (plus Bruton) express no confidence in him?

He'll have to start appointing the cabbages on the back benches to the shadow cabinet and that isn't going to make his party look very credible.

I shouldn't think 'the cabbages' on the back benches could do any worse than fools like Hogan, O'Dowd and Lucinda Cretin Creighton.:D

johngalway

Sometimes these threads are hilarious.

Previous to this "Kenny is bad, lightweight, no one likes him. Bruton should challenge, he'd be much better".

Now there's an actual challenge "Kenny is great, man of the people, strong leader, Bruton should have stayed in his box".

Pick a bleeding horse and stick with it, can't have it both ways.

IMO it's Bruton or bust for FG now.

Wide Road

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Who is he going to get if 9 (plus Bruton) express no confidence in him?

He'll have to start appointing the cabbages on the back benches to the shadow cabinet and that isn't going to make his party look very credible.

But you're forgetting that he is forming a new front bench next week. So again I ask, why sack Richard yesterday and leave the other front bench rebels intact?

BlaasForRafa

Judgement Day wrote: »

I shouldn't think 'the cabbages' on the back benches could do any worse than fools like Hogan, O'Dowd and Lucinda Cretin Creighton.:D

Oh I completely agree, the standard in both partys is awful. Add to that list Brendan "wheres me expenses application" Kennealy

Hackysack

Uh chances are those guys who rebelled won't be there next week.

Wide Road

Hackysack wrote: »

Uh chances are those guys who rebelled won't be there next week.

According to Dr O'Reilly on radio yesterday Richard will be back on the front bench soon after Enda wins the confidence vote. Surely next week will be too soon.

BlaasForRafa

Wide Road wrote: »

But you're forgetting that he is forming a new front bench next week. So again I ask, why sack Richard yesterday and leave the other front bench rebels intact?

Although there had been rumours about some of them I don't think it was out in public just exactly who in the front bench would express no confidence (although a few were obvious). Kenny probably felt he couldn't sack 10 people at the same time without completely splitting the party.

In reality Kenny should have seen the writing on the wall and resigned but this is Ireland and no-one resigns. Kenny should go now before he damages his party even more.

Wide Road

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Although there had been rumours about some of them I don't think it was out in public just exactly who in the front bench would express no confidence (although a few were obvious). Kenny probably felt he couldn't sack 10 people at the same time without completely splitting the party.

In reality Kenny should have seen the writing on the wall and resigned but this is Ireland and no-one resigns. Kenny should go now before he damages his party even more.

But what difference would it make if he's forming a new front bench next week. Why sack Richard then?

Ecu

johngalway wrote: »

Sometimes these threads are hilarious.

Previous to this "Kenny is bad, lightweight, no one likes him. Bruton should challenge, he'd be much better".

Now there's an actual challenge "Kenny is great, man of the people, strong leader, Bruton should have stayed in his box".

Pick a bleeding horse and stick with it, can't have it both ways.

IMO it's Bruton or bust for FG now.

Point is by rising to the challenge Kenny has show us a side of himself not often seen, that sort of commands some respect.

The beauty of life is that you can have it any way you want.

Foxtrol

Wide Road wrote: »

But what difference would it make if he's forming a new front bench next week. Why sack Richard then?

He didn't want Richard at the meeting as I doubt he would have let Enda walk out without there being a proper discussion.

phoenix999

I'm no Kenny fan but Bruton has all the personality of a cabbage (other front benchers are no better) - complete and utter bores. Give me one of the Labour crew any day. Least they have a sense of humour. A lot of people in the party and outside it are angry about the way Bruton went about this. Bit like Stalin shooting his generals just as Hitler was about to invade. Underestimate Enda Kenny at your peril. FG will go nowhere with Bruton. John Bruton seems charsimatic in comparison.

johngalway

Ecu wrote: »

Point is by rising to the challenge Kenny has show us a side of himself not often seen, that sort of commands some respect.

The beauty of life is that you can have it any way you want.

Nine of his front bench have expressed no confidence in him. A front bench which by Endas own thoughts would comprise the best of the FG team. Realising that his own popularity is damaging to FG would command more respect from me, a FG voter, than digging in in what will likely turn out to either be a futile bid to retain leadership or one which will split the party.

When the party was unified then no one was going to rock the boat. But a thing has been set in motion now and it's my belief FG will have a new leader soon. The issue now is how much damage will be done to the party in the intervening time. It would be a lot better if Enda recognised, while he's done excellent organising and rebuilding work, his own unpopularity is actually hurting FG now. That's something which is evident from many polls. I believe the recent poll putting Labour ahead of FG will - sorry - would have turned out to have been a flash in the pan. It's unlclear now what will happen with this unfolding leadership episode.

Foxtrol

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

In reality Kenny should have seen the writing on the wall and resigned but this is Ireland and no-one resigns.

On this point I really wish our politicians were more like those in the UK.

Sully

Bad timing all around for this and it shows again the flaws of the FG party that never go away. Seems the old FG is far from behind them.

I can see why there are doubts about Kenny, but I don't blame him for the party doing poorly. One man can not be solely responsible for a party not functioning the way it should. Perhaps one needs to look at the bigger picture here, as well as addressing the Kenny issue?

Can Bruton build on the Kenny success? Does he really have leadership qualities? Why cant the 9 front bench members just try deal with this internally, rather then running to RTE and inflicting more wounds on the party? Should Kenny be given the boot now, just a result of a slippage in a few polls or should the party and himself be given one big proper boot and told to cop the **** on and do their job, without worrying who sits at the top table.

FG need a lesson on how to deal with its own affairs. No other party would have this constant dark cloud hanging over it. They need to take a leaf out of FFs book and learn how to master the art of running a party.

I have my doubts that FG can win an election now, I fear they have shot themselves in the foot for what they believe is the "common good" for the party and the people. Most people may want Bruton, or someone other then Kenny, but I cant see how that one person is going to pull the party together the way it should be operating and put FG miles ahead in the poll and wiping the floor with FF. Labour etc. can be the soap.

I think Kenny has done wonders for the party overall and that needs to be recognized by all, and considered when the front bench draw knifes. Can sacking Kenny really make the party work, really? Is it perhaps the party at fault and not Kenny?

Who knows at this stage.