Kenny sacks Bruton

xflyer

maynooth rules

But should charisma be that important. It is the first issue you mentioned about Kenny and seems to be the fault that most have with him.

I can agree with you but the reality is that charisma is important for a politician to get elected, too important at times. The average voter's grasp of politics is often slender and all too often votes are cast for the most trivial of reasons. FG suffers from his charisma bypass. On top of that he is none to competent either. Which is my real problem with him. He has let FF off the hook again and again. If FF could pick an opposition leader it would be Kenny. They must be worried now that he is in trouble.

Liam

Please tell me that you're joking ?

If anything, most people in Dublin don't know what it's like to live in the real world, with feck-all transport options, facilities or even job opportunities.

Ahern looked after his own backyard for years.

That's exactly the attitude I'm talking about. You need to get away from all this parochial nonsense. I know having a go at Dublin is the national sport. But get over it. We're all in this together. I speak as a Dub living in your 'real world'. I never felt like a Dubliner until I moved out. I always thought of myself as Irish. Now everyone feels they have to slag off me and the city, as if I cared. But God forbid I have the slightest criticism of their precious little inward looking county or town. It's BS of the highest order and it is damaging to this little country. Politicians spend more time fighting for their precious little patch than looking after the general good.

But getting back to the point. Bruton didn't act too soon. His hand was forced by Kenny asking him to go out and speak for him after the disastrous poll. Bruton obviously couldn't bring himself to keep lying when it's clear to everyone that Kenny is a millstone on the FG's neck and is handing votes to Labour. Whether Kenny goes this time or limps on for a bit. He's finished. He's not up to the job and eventually he will go down. The election is far enough way at the moment for this to be long forgotten by then. FG needs a better leader, it's only a matter of time.

maynooth_rules

alex73 wrote: »

Leo Varadkar Confirms he is backing Bruton.. So 4 Front bench TD's are now backing Bruton.

That would count as a big coup for Burton. So he has Coveney and Leo on his side. If he can get Hayes then he has all the best up and coming FG tds on his side

dusty207

As usual with Enda
wrong call wrong call wrong call, if a guy can trip up 2 metres from the finishing line with nobody near him it's Enda, egg on face again while Cowan gets away again.
As a long time FG voter the last year has been a nightmare as opportunity after opportunity to stick it to FF has been blown. Holy moly, I'm even thinking of voting Labour just to have a chance of giving FF a kicking, and how sad is that, Enda?

Breezer

Just finished emailing my FG TD, Senator, Councillors and the entire undecided front bench asking them to back Bruton.

This isn't a good situation. But the way I see it, what FG had going for it under Kenny was a united party. That's now gone. And although I've defended Kenny to the hilt on here and elsewhere in the past, now that it's come down to a straight choice between him and Bruton even being on the front bench, it can only be Bruton.

johngalway

ragg wrote: »

Can you see any change in the leaders at this point? Lenihan maybe would have challenged biffo if he hadn't gotten sick, Gilmore is having a purple patch.
Now it seems that Kenny has sacked the only person worth a ****e in FG.

When the next election comes around, it'll be status quo!

Maybe in FF, they really need to ditch Cowan, each day that passes he becomes more and more of a liability. I cannot rid my thought's of a radio interview he done and the interviewer told him some real home truths about the state of this country, his answer "Sure don't worry about it". :eek:

No change in Labour.

Yes in FG. After today the only credible option is a large vote of FG TD's in support of a leadership challenge by Bruton. Otherwise, FG are left with a leader who's unpopularity simply won't go away and the most liked TD sat on the back benches, and a split party.

Just that the timing is so awful. Bruton now needs to redeem that by driving a powerful campaign for leadership change within FG, and after that he needs to keep the ship well glued together.

Otherwise, it will all be for naught.

Some considerable damage has already been done to FG because of this. For one the position of Minister for Finance has just been handed to Labour. But I don't honestly believe the position of Taoiseach has.

Though were FF to get a new leader, there could be a danger of Lab looking in that direction next time out. Stranger things have happened.

Most important thing now, seeing as the bullets can't be called back after the guns been fired, is for Bruton to push on with a decisive leadership challenge and then on to focus on the ridding us of Fianna Fail.

ANXIOUS

Think enda came across very well, on the news. I hope he hangs on, it wouldn't surprise me if he won and then invited the trouble makers back. Must pm Liambyrne he seems to have the inside track on fg.

Avgas

Breezer wrote: »

Just finished emailing my FG TD, Senator, Councillors and the entire undecided front bench asking them to back Bruton.

This isn't a good situation. But the way I see it, what FG had going for it under Kenny was a united party. That's now gone. And although I've defended Kenny to the hilt on here and elsewhere in the past, now that it's come down to a straight choice between him and Bruton even being on the front bench, it can only be Bruton.

Kenny had to go..although he was no where near as inept as some are now portraying him.....BUT it does not follow Bruton is your only man.....If FG are serious you need to offer something different...go down an age group...look for a woman.....not sure who.....

Richard Bruton is fixated with gutting the Public Service......that will make a coalition with Labour....impossible.....the polls last week do not show that we will have a Labour-Shinner-Green government anymore than a labour majority......what those polls mean is that a FF and Labour coalition is the most likely outcome...unless FG can stick centrist and mainstream and win back vote share.......and touch base with ordinary people...

Bruton has an Oxford 1980s economics agenda still preloaded in his mental software......he will start speaking down to the electorate in typical FG manner........Gilmore's populist patter is simply more effective.....and ultimately more workable with a Post-Cowan FF which you can be sure is being worked on now as we speak..................

They electorate may want a complete change but that doesn't mean they'll get it.

My cynical 2 centimes.

ANXIOUS

alex73 wrote: »

Leo Varadkar Confirms he is backing Bruton.. So 4 Front bench TD's are now backing Bruton.

Link

sesna

SB-08 wrote: »

Agreed. Enda surely has no choice now that not only has the party's most impressive member and deputy leader lost confidence in him, but also arguably it's fastest rising star Leo - as well as three other front benchers. Even if Bruton doesnt have enough support - Enda will have to resign, otherwise the whole thing will be an even bigger joke than it already is. He simply cannot continue as leader now after such high profile members expressed their lack of confidence publicly.

If onyl FF woudl do the same - according to the MOS - Lenihan will most likely take over from Cowen if he gets the all clear from the doctors on Wednesday - surely Micheal Martin would be more suitable though? Lenihan is hardly popular with the public - if anything he is the most unpopular after Cowen.

What high profile members have backed Bruton apart from Richard Bruton?

Hint ... The answer is none.

dusty207

This whole situation has given FF a much needed breathing space. But, it also gives the FF backbenchers some time to get stuck into Cowan, time Enda didn't give them. Labour are a one trick pony, namely Eamon Gilmore. (Discounting moany joany of course) When the scope is pointed at his policies, he'll struggle. He's been the best performer in the Dail because he uses no notes, can string a few sentences together, hasn't destroyed the economy and isn't bombastic. But at the end of the day (no pun intended) the voters will decide. People are scared, unemployed and want leadership. At times like this, strong, articulate people will always win out. Bruton can do this and, unlike Gilmore, he has the facts and figures to back his policies.

Anonymous1987

Tbh I don't see how Bruton would be any better as leader of the party and the only reason I see why people would want him as leader of the party is he is not Enda Kenny. Enda Kenny seems to have support from the party but it's his public perception that party members seem to be worried about. That and maybe the recent u-turn on Europe is creating a divide in the party.

Anonymous1987

dusty207 wrote: »

At times like this, strong, articulate people will always win out. Bruton can do this and, unlike Gilmore, he has the facts and figures to back his policies.

Sure Bruton knows his stuff but I'm not so sure he could manage internal issues in FG.

dlofnep

Fine Gael is going to fall flat on it's arse. People will not vote for them now with so much uncertainty within party ranks.

dusty207

Enda has no charisma, (met him in Dun Laoghaire before the last election and he scared the hell out of my granddaughter by trying to be nice) keeps making weird decisions like holding FF together by calling for no confidence votes in Cowan just at the time when FF should be ripping themselves apart. No doubts, he hauled FG back from oblivion over the past decade but now, he should realise his achievements, and limitations, and stand down, take a big role in the new government and bask in the adoration. Otherwise he should remember the old maxim: All political lives, unless they are cut off in midstream at a happy juncture, end in failure,

sdanseo

dlofnep wrote: »

Fine Gael is going to fall flat on it's arse. People will not vote for them now with so much uncertainty within party ranks.

Once it's sorted before the election (whenever that may be) I disagree wholeheartedly. As a previous FF voter, I'd be much happier voting FG with Bruton in charge than Enda (though I'd probably vote that way anyway).

Anonymous1987

dlofnep wrote: »

Fine Gael is going to fall flat on it's arse. People will not vote for them now with so much uncertainty within party ranks.

Firstly barring the government falling apart the next election isn't for two years, anything could happen.
Secondly in the event of an election I don't see any particularly strong reason to vote for any of the three major parties, FG have turned populist driven by focus groups it seems, FF put us in this mess and have been in power for too long and Labour don't seem to have coherent credible policies.
The bottom line is this could play out in any direction.

Breezer

Avgas wrote: »

Kenny had to go..although he was no where near as inept as some are now portraying him.....BUT it does not follow Bruton is your only man.....If FG are serious you need to offer something different...go down an age group...look for a woman.....not sure who.....

I wouldn't be sure either. Varadkar keeps being mentioned, but he's still way too inexperienced, it's only his first Dáil term. Coveney would be a possibility. None of the young female TDs (including Creighton) have the profile yet.

If Enda goes, I can't see anyone challenging Bruton. A two way split is bad enough, a 3 or 4 way split would be disastrous.

dusty207

Anonymous1987 wrote: »

Sure Bruton knows his stuff but I'm not so sure he could manage internal issues in FG.

True, but handling internal issues is THE major problem in all Irish political parties. Had a conversation with a longterm FF voter the other day and the whole chat circled around the bloody civil war, FG vs FF blah blah blah. We didn't even have electricity then, 500 cars in Ireland, no airport. (OK somebody will trip me up on all that BUT) If a political party has to rip itself apart to become an asset to the State, so be it. I want to be ruled by a party that has the best wishes of the people as it's mission statement, not some crap garbage historical bull****. No wonder this country is heading down the tubes.

irishh_bob

Breezer wrote: »

I wouldn't be sure either. Varadkar keeps being mentioned, but he's still way too inexperienced, it's only his first Dáil term. Coveney would be a possibility. None of the young female TDs (including Creighton) have the profile yet.

If Enda goes, I can't see anyone challenging Bruton. A two way split is bad enough, a 3 or 4 way split would be disastrous.

while leo is probabley too young , electing coveney would be merley voting in enda 2 , another gormless wally

sesna

dusty207 wrote: »

Enda has no charisma, (met him in Dun Laoghaire before the last election and he scared the hell out of my granddaughter by trying to be nice) keeps making weird decisions like holding FF together by calling for no confidence votes in Cowan just at the time when FF should be ripping themselves apart. No doubts, he hauled FG back from oblivion over the past decade but now, he should realise his achievements, and limitations, and stand down, take a big role in the new government and bask in the adoration. Otherwise he should remember the old maxim: All political lives, unless they are cut off in midstream at a happy juncture, end in failure,

Ah yes, da da da Bert wudda bought her an aul ice-cream.

The Irish electorate certainly do deserve the economic mess the country is in.

Former Fine Gael leaders have suffered low ratings in similar opinion polls while in opposition, including Bruton's brother. Was there ever a good Fine Gael until they were in power, or a bad Fianna Fail leader until they were out of office?

dusty207

sesna wrote: »

Ah yes, da da da Bert wudda bought her an aul ice-cream.

The Irish electorate certainly do deserve the economic mess the country is in.

Hahaha, sesna, brilliant, and I bet he wudda bought me one too!

sesna

dusty207 wrote: »

Hahaha, sesna, brilliant, and I bet he wudda bought me one too!

No I'd say the one would have been sufficient to buy your vote

dusty207

Anyway, FG don't have the killer instinct that FF do, which is why I believe that FF will win the next election, notwithstanding the joint lead that FG and Labour have. As the man said, "The meek will inherit the earth, if that's all right with the rest of you?" "Official FG policy"

rightwingdub

I predict an election in early 2011 after the next budget is passed, it will be a FG-Labour government.

sesna

dusty207 wrote: »

Anyway, FG don't have the killer instinct that FF do, which is why I believe that FF will win the next election, notwithstanding the joint lead that FG and Labour have. As the man said, "The weak will inherit the earth, if that's all right with the rest of you?" "Official FG policy"

Its true, Fine Gael are too decent and honorable. Perpetual opposition is where they belong.

dusty207

sesna wrote: »

No I'd say the one would have been sufficient to buy your vote

No Sensa, No, he didn't need to, he bought me a pint in the Beaumont House a couple of weeks after he won the last election. Miller, as it so happens. After a conversation when I let slip I had voted for Finian McGrath in a tactical attempt to get rid of Ivor Callely. Bertie just smiled.

Avgas

Breezer wrote: »

I wouldn't be sure either. Varadkar keeps being mentioned, but he's still way too inexperienced, it's only his first Dáil term. Coveney would be a possibility. None of the young female TDs (including Creighton) have the profile yet.

If Enda goes, I can't see anyone challenging Bruton. A two way split is bad enough, a 3 or 4 way split would be disastrous.

Reasonable points...I think your right Bruton will get it.........however, maybe NOT HAVING A PROFILE would be an asset.....?

That is why I was thinking a high risk 'blue sky' option of either Creighton or Enright....or even Frances Fitzgearld. (not quite young there and she didn't even get elected to the Dail last time...?)

Either Vradkar or Burton will be probably problematic because while FG would gain votes from the right...they would lose coalition favour with Labour...they would push FF and Labour together....and alienate a lot of people in the centre....in the middle of a savage recession.....outbidding FF on deflationary policies........for all his faults Enda may have had a surer common touch......

In fairness they would handle the NAMA-BANK/DEVELOPER AID wheeze a bit better...

but its too late.....baby....now its too late................

jmayo

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Not sure why so many people think this is bad timing on Bruton's part... The vote of confidence tomorrow is a matter of course . . . Even so, Cowen should be under more pressure . . . He isn't because of last weeks poll and it makes sense that Bruton should act at a time when his party leaders poor performance has thrown FG into the limelight at the most inopportune time.

What surprises me most is that Kenny has not gone quickly and quietly. Bruton is a cautious fella and has stood by his leader until now. He would not have challenged Kenny unless he was fairly certain that he had the numbers to topple him. Instead of recognising this and going quietly so that FG can move on, Kenny has caused a leadership battle that will be even more divisive for FG and will set them back further. .

Hey is that the belief over in ff HQ ?
Funny you don't bother posting in the threads about the banking reports ?
Still believe it was all the fault of Lehmans ? :rolleyes:

I actually predict if Bruton wins that he will get dumped down the road.
FG will not win a majority and thinking they will with him in charge is just more spin fed into the mix.
No matter what the polls say Labour are and will not be the largest party in the Dáil.

At this stage after seeing Bruton's timing I think he is seriously flawed.

I can see him quickly being attacked by media for being distant or some such pretence.

What the media want and want the voters want is some happy clappy guy who goes on TV shows tells jokes, sings a song and is a guy they would see themselves drinking with in the pub.
Bruton is not that guy either and it will become clear before long.

musings

Richard Bruton is an arrogant chap who desperately wants to be Taoiseach yet hadn't the savvy to wait and let Kenny get into hot water with some more poor poll results and then launch a bid for leader.

He showed his arrogance/lack of good judgement previously by ignoring George Lee as if he didn't exist, when he could have used him to raise his own profile, but no, Richy had to show that he was so smart he didn't need George Lee.

I think Bruton has shot himself in the foot this time and Kenny's firing of him will nip this badly prepared coup attempt in the bud, as any drip feed of voices of support for a coup will be silenced. you have to show your colours now within FG and who'll go against Kenny when they're guaranteed to be in power next time and Enda is the incumbant who'll be handing out the jobs........ John Deasy maybe

Mr.Micro

jolly wrote: »

I think this has changed as with Bruton, they may have added killer instinct to their arsenal. Everyone, bar the core Kenny supporters, realises Kenny will not deliver the votes FG should get given the mess the country is in. Bruton, esp. with his Dublin base, could do this. It is a no-brainer for FG. May not happen this Thursday but will happen before the next election.

At that point, when Bruton takes over, Cowen and Gilmore have a big problem. Economically literate opponent who could wipe the floor with them. Queue Cowen exiting stage right, assuming Lenihan's health is good. Then we have a choice as an electorate.

Something has to give to break the hiatus that FG has been in for sometime. Many in FG probably think that they just have to put up a candidate next election with the unpopularity of FF/GP and that's that. By the next election the economy may have improved( with all the massive debt of the nation hidden) and Biffo could appear to be electable again. Voters have short memories and FG need to prepare for the fight with an effective leader.