Kenny sacks Bruton

jmayo

Hackysack wrote: »

It's very poor timing, as mentioned already.

But I think it's about time that FG deal with the question of Kenny's leadership. He did great work in turning the party around, but I honestly don't think he can take them into government. They need someone much more charismatic and I think that Bruton is the man for it.

I'm very interested to see how this pans out.

Have you ever met Bruton ?
Very few that have would ever call him charismatic, so there goes that argument.
They would call him distant in fact.
Either way I don't think we should only look for a leader with charisma, becuase look where haughey and ahern took us with all their charisma.

Up till last week I thought Bruton was smart, but his unbelievable lack of judgement in the timing of this calls into question how smart is the guy.
I know it is World Cup time so I would say the FG party remind of the Ducth soccer team.
They have had brilliant teams, but just when they look like suceeding they start infighting and blow it all like 1990.

mike65 wrote: »

Eoghan Harris was just on Matt Coopers prog, saying Enda Kenny was basicly hounded out by the media, that they had decided he was to be their next victim. Talked about how if the Dub media don't like you, you're toast. He noted how Gilmore is liked by the Dublin media and gets an easy ride.

He actually does have a point.

Liam Byrne

Tipp Man wrote: »

from Bruton's point of view I think this is probably a good time to challenge

As a potential voter, it has cast doubt over Bruton's level of cop-on and timing, IMHO.

And I'd guess that potential voters are the ones FG need in order to mount a challenge.

Therefore it was counter-productive.

maynooth_rules

Listening to John Gormley on RTE News saying what is happeneing in Fine Gael at the moment is 'stupid' was sickening to hear. This is the fool that will be a big reason for the collapse of the Green party at the next general election and this is the fool that has proped up the worst Government we have had in living memory. If anyone should know a lot about political stupidity then it is John Gormley and his lapdog Greens

Tipp Man

Liam Byrne wrote: »

As a potential voter, it has cast doubt over Bruton's level of cop-on and timing, IMHO.

And I'd guess that potential voters are the ones FG need in order to mount a challenge.

Therefore it was counter-productive.

In the short term maybe, but if he wins the leadership all of that will be forgotten in a few days, weeks at most.

Its not like there is an election in the next few weeks so he has plenty of time to win over the swing voters

cats.life

walshb wrote: »

Kenny has shown some balls here, proper order. Bruton was out to screw the leader, so Kenny screwed him. He was right to sack him. It's a pity others wouldn't do the same, fair ruthlessness is needed in politics and other walks of life.

i agree with you , you never know he might be a great leader, he grew a pair at last.

Tipp Man

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Listening to John Gormley on RTE News saying what is happeneing in Fine Gael at the moment is 'stupid' was sickening to hear. This is the fool that will be a big reason for the collapse of the Green party at the next general election and this is the fool that has proped up the worst Government we have had in living memory. If anyone should know a lot about political stupidity then it is John Gormley and his lapdog Greens

Why is he even commenting on it?? nothing to do with him and if he paid as much attention to items much closer to home he might actually have some kind of positive impact on the country as opposed to the idiot do-gooder that he comes across as

Tinker13

themont85 wrote: »

This shite about the 'Dublin media' forcing this.
Its the opinion polls. Enda Kenny cannot draw the support of non FG people, FG have gone into themselves and may well keep Kenny. Massive mistake. Kenny may be the leader FG want but the wider public don't. Idiots.

As a floating voter I do want an alternative to the old heads. But the FG numbties blaming the Dublin meeja on the radio all day are really turning me off. I don't care that they feel a debt of gratitude to Enda the Line for saving their blueshirt hides. I'd prefer if he could now show us something we haven't seen in him up to this and settle this thing once and for all. Otherwise, I predict that it will be 2007 all over again.

peasant

Gobsheens, the lot of them !

The good of the country, the national interest, the will of the people ...what do they matter if there is toys to be thrown out of the pram, mud to be slung and "reputations" at stake.

We have no governement (not a working one anyway), now we have no opposition either ....somebody please fill the Dail with little plastic balls so that we can let them play in their creche, the little children ...they might just let us get on with things and real life in the meantime.

yosemite_sam

I live in Mayo and Kenny is the reason I would not vote for his party

xflyer

The reality is that the public at large, me included can't see Kenny as leader of our country. That's why Gilmore is ahead. Right from the start of his leadership, Kenny was a dead duck. Zero charisma and say what you like charisma as well as competence is important in a leader. His competence is in question too. Bruton and quite a lot of FG have seen this for a while. Kenny has failed to inflict a fatal wound on that fat idiot Cowen. It's time he handed over the sword to someone a bit more skillful.

As for comments about the 'Dublin media'. Isn't it time we IRISH got over this intercounty but all against Dublin rivalry once and for all. That's part of what's wrong with this country. Most people outside Dublin only seem to care about own little patch. No wonder the country is a mess. This country is too small for that crap. It's time for real patriotism and less of this small town nonsense. We are Irish and we should proud of that first not your bloody parish.

maynooth_rules

Tipp Man wrote: »

Why is he even commenting on it?? nothing to do with him and if he paid as much attention to items much closer to home he might actually have some kind of positive impact on the country as opposed to the idiot do-gooder that he comes across as

Because he is a media whore. At least Cowen has the cop on to keep his mouth shut and stay out of the matter. Everything about Gormley irritates me

bleg

Just emailed the FG TD in my constituency with 2 word subject "Back Bruton"

efb

yosemite_sam wrote: »

I live in Mayo and Kenny is the reason I would not vote for his party

In like Flynn or dead Ring-er?

themont85

Its the opinion poll that has prompted this not Bruton. It was a disaster for FG, a complete disaster.

The 'Dublin media' is a pile of **** argument. People don't connect with Kenny its pretty obvious. The poll showed this and the indicators have been for a while of this. We all know this.

maynooth_rules

xflyer wrote: »

The reality is that the public at large, me included can't see Kenny as leader of our country. That's why Gilmore is ahead. Right from the start of his leadership, Kenny was a dead duck. Zero charisma and say what you like charisma as well as competence is important in a leader. His competence is in question too. Bruton and quite a lot of FG have seen this for a while. Kenny has failed to inflict a fatal wound on that fat idiot Cowen. It's time he handed over the sword to someone a bit more skillful.

As for comments about the 'Dublin media'. Isn't it time we IRISH got over this intercounty but all against Dublin rivalry once and for all. That's part of what's wrong with this country. Most people outside Dublin only seem to care about own little patch. No wonder the country is a mess. This country is too small for that crap. It's time for real patriotism and less of this small town nonsense. We are Irish and we should proud of that first not your bloody parish.

But should charisma be that important. It is the first issue you mentioned about Kenny and seems to be the fault that most have with him. I want a strong, honourable, dignified leader who actually has a plan for the future. While Id like our next leader to have a lot of charisma, at the end of the day it should matter very bloody little. Way too many people seem to be placing charisma as a vital attribute for our next leader to have. Bertie Ahern has charisma in bucket loads yet he was a disaster for the country and nothing but a rogue that is finally getting found out now

Wolfe Tone

FF are so lucky its unreal. I can see them winning the next election.

maynooth_rules

yosemite_sam wrote: »

I live in Mayo and Kenny is the reason I would not vote for his party

Why would you when good honouable politicians like Cooper Flynn represent your county:rolleyes:

SB-08

It's about bloody time Bruton challenged Kenny - they have zero chance of winning the next election with that incompetent moron (who would fit perfectly into an episode of father ted) leading the party - the sheer volume of people I know who wouldnt vote for FG in a million years with Kenny leading the party - but would vote for them with someone intelligent and competent like Bruton, someone who is able to bloody debate issues in a very impressive manner as oppose to come accross as an utter embaressment like Kenny. Bruton has a great knowledge of the economy whereras Kenny lacks in knowledge is a large number of issues as has been proven in interviews over the years. Loads of front-benchers in FG have been less than convincing to say the least when it comes to defending Kenny over the past year or so on several TV programes. The fact is that Kenny is a very unpopular leader for very obvious reasons - FG should be miles higher in the polls than they are due to what an appauling Govt we have, but yet they are falling - and if you ask me once Bruton becomes leader (I am assuming the party won't delude themselves further and keep Enda) they will shoot up in the polls - in fact I am positive it will happen. Kenny puts so many people off supporting FG - the opposide of what a leader is meant to do. He is being highly selfish in not resigning at this stage - he has been the leader for 8 years now - and after the utter disaster of the past 2 years under FF - the fact FG are loosing support as a direct result of Enda's unpopulartiy says it all. He did a good job helping to build the party back up but after loosing the last election and now with these latest poll results, surely even he has to wake up and move on?

Wouldnt it be great if both Kenny and Cowen were both gone with the next week? Sure we would still have th awful Govt and the pretty bloody poor opposition, but at least we would be rid of the two most wooden polital leaders in the country. Micheal Martin would be a good new leader for FF but he doesnt seemt to be putting himself forward.

Either way though - FG have yet again embaressed themselves - Bruton should've waited and Kenny should not have sacked him as it will do nothing but lose him further support.

I sincerly hope Kenny is ousted though - as it is being pathetic at this stage how often his leadership gets questioned. The leader of the opposition to FF right now should be very popular but all he is doing is enabling the leader of Labour to gain support - laughable is what the whole thing is.

Liam Byrne

xflyer wrote: »

Most people outside Dublin only seem to care about own little patch.

Please tell me that you're joking ?

If anything, most people in Dublin don't know what it's like to live in the real world, with feck-all transport options, facilities or even job opportunities.

Ahern looked after his own backyard for years.

Byron85

Bruton live on RTE 1 news now!


http://www.rte.ie/player/#l=7

Sherifu

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

Bruton live on RTE 1 news now!


http://www.rte.ie/player/#l=7

Montallie

walshb wrote: »

Kenny has shown some balls here, proper order.

If Kenny had real balls he'd have stepped down long ago and let someone competent take over. It was sickening to hear him on the news spouting on about how he has to look after the 600,000 supporters of his party. That about sums it up. Forget about the ordinary Joe or Josephine, they're not important. It's only those who put him there are. Actually, I'm not sorry, because this is a final nail in the coffin of Fine Gael, imo. Someone should tell that lot that the civil war was decades ago. Now the people want real government by talented people, not those hanging on their grandparents' or great-grandparents' coat-tails. As to that guy Allen seeming to think that Fine Gael are on the verge of government again, he hasn't been paying attention. Labour is the largest party now, according to the polls. What polls? They're useless except when they say what the politicos want, then they're brilliant.

hallelujajordan

jmayo wrote: »

Up till last week I thought Bruton was smart, but his unbelievable lack of judgement in the timing of this calls into question how smart is the guy.
I know it is World Cup time so I would say the FG party remind of the Ducth soccer team.

Not sure why so many people think this is bad timing on Bruton's part... The vote of confidence tomorrow is a matter of course . . . Even so, Cowen should be under more pressure . . . He isn't because of last weeks poll and it makes sense that Bruton should act at a time when his party leaders poor performance has thrown FG into the limelight at the most inopportune time.

What surprises me most is that Kenny has not gone quickly and quietly. Bruton is a cautious fella and has stood by his leader until now. He would not have challenged Kenny unless he was fairly certain that he had the numbers to topple him. Instead of recognising this and going quietly so that FG can move on, Kenny has caused a leadership battle that will be even more divisive for FG and will set them back further. .

paddyland

I take a slightly different view on all this. For one thing, Enda Kenny is a simmering problem in FG, a slow boil that has to be lanced. He may or may not be suitable to lead FG forward, and he may or may not deserve a shot at Taoiseach, but the rumblings about him go on, and on, and on, and show no sign of relenting. Perhaps Kenny can use this opportunity to really show his political mettle. Failing that, he will fall, and FG will have a period to gather themselves under a new leader before the next election. FF will not call an election until the last minute, and it is better that all this comes out now, rather than in 2012 in the heat of an election campaign.

Besides which, I actually think it is good in a perverse way that Cowen manages to skim this tidal wave. The longer Cowen remains at the helm of FF, the more damage he does to that wretched party. He is an appalling Taoiseach, but the damage is done at this stage, and I would rather he remained as FF leader until election time. Let all the dirt on him do it's work then, and let him fall badly, and pull FF with him. We really don't need Cowen out too soon, giving Minister Squeak Oil Martin two years to polish the FF turd before the next election.

_Kaiser_

Only in Ireland does the opposition shoot itself in the foot like this on the eve of a motion of confidence on arguably one of the worst leaders of the country in living memory.

Yes FF need to go, if for no reason than they're there too long, have run out of ideas and are out of touch with the electorate... witness Lehihan's arrogance whenever he's asked about the future of the government.

Yes Enda Kenny is not the right man to lead FG, and I would agree that Bruton is a far better choice - whether or not he's actually charasmatic is irrelevent.. the public perception of him is that he's a knowledgeable, articulate man that has the skill and ability to mount an effective challenge to FF (and in politics perception is often MORE important than reality).

But the timing is awful, and while it makes Enda look weak by simply firing Bruton rather than facing him down, the question is what will the rest of FG do? Will they back Bruton or settle for what they have? (FF meanwhile will be having a good laugh and Cowen will be breathing a sigh of relief that any suggestion of his leadership being questioned will now be lost).

not_xanthor

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

FF are so lucky its unreal. I can see them winning the next election.

Luck has nothing to do with it. Recent polls reporting a surge in support for Labour, and a slump in support for FG are exaggerated if not falsified.

How can FG put forward a motion of no confidence successfully when they themselves are divided?

Doesn't matter if Bruton ousts Kenny or not, they've both been played like a cheap tin whistle. The perception of a divided party has been cast, and that was the intention all along.

Look out for 'significant signs of economic growth' towards the end of this year, all of next year, a sustained attack on FG, and an attack on Labour to boot. Not to mention the 'We have a mandate to fix these problems' mantra.

FF probably will win the next election, there are too many special interests who would loose out from any other result.

JonathanAnon

I think Richard Bruton has handled this very very badly.. He let Vincent Browne and other coax him into revealing that he still wanted to be leader, knowing that the media would pick up on it. If he had something to say then he should have said it to FF front benchers first. This just snowballed over the weekend because of his ambiguity culminating in this disaster. Kind of reminds me of Gerry Collins and FF in the 1990s.. Dont do it Richard, you'll "burst" the party..

Pride Fighter

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

\Good god Fine Gael can't do anything right. How the f*ck could this not have been sorted out behind closed doors?

They're like politics answer to the England football team. No matter how good things are going for them they're always unfortunate enough to mess things up somehow.

Bruton's what traditional anti-fine gaelers like about fine gael. We're getting Fianna Fail in the next election, aren't we?

I think you're getting Labour at the next election tbh.

Mr.Micro

The sacking of Bruton will stir up the dozy FG party at the very least. Kenny has to go even if he wins over Bruton this time. If Labour are ahead of FG in a recent poll what more does Kenny in his comfy slippers need to see how ineffective his leadership is. FF will be delighted as it takes the pressure off Biffo and his confidence vote, but its better to try and get a new leader now than lose at the next election all because Mr No Charisma Kenny is still in charge of an inert party. About time somebody in FG did something.

Tinker13

Mr.Micro wrote: »

The sacking of Bruton will stir up the dozy FG party at the very least.

FG were on such a low after the 2002 election, plus they got such a frightener, I don't think it took much for them to improve in 2007.

Kenny's real test of leadership was to take power from a badly damaged FF party who probably wanted to hand over the poisoned chalice anyway. He failed and FG were too afraid to make the necessary changes then.