Saorview Content Speculation

Sam Russell

When they actually launch Saorview (for the third time) in September, they will not have to duplicate RTE 2 HD and RTE jr, and RTE 1 news and RTE News Now. It is frequently true at the moment that RTE 1, TG4, and RTE NewsNow are all broadcasting live content from the Dail. That is ridiculous. RTE NN also simulcasts all news programmes and Primetime etc. We have RTE 1, RTE 1+1, and RTE NN, all broadcasting the same stuff at prime time.

It is also true that RTE Radio 1 does not mention Saorview atall. It does not exist. Nor does RTE NN on any RTE promotions.

Gerry Wicklow

What about the ridiculous dead air during ad breaks on shows like Morning Ireland? That really must have been denting TV3 revenue!

Elmo

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

What about the ridiculous dead air during ad breaks on shows like Morning Ireland? That really must have been denting TV3 revenue!

RTÉ News Now cannot carry advertising.

RTÉ Live on the web remove advertising from broadcast programming, I don't really understand why, I believe it is due to rights issues. If I was an advertiser I would be a bit annoyed.

RTÉ News Now was mentioned during General Election but after that nothing.

Also Saorview isn't currently doing anything for anyone's advertising revenue.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

RTÉ News Now cannot carry advertising.

RTÉ Live on the web remove advertising from broadcast programming, I don't really understand why, I believe it is due to rights issues. If I was an advertiser I would be a bit annoyed.

RTÉ News Now was mentioned during General Election but after that nothing.

Also Saorview isn't currently doing anything for anyone's advertising revenue.

RTE have been ignoring Saorview since its launch on the 29th October, and have continued to ignore it since its relaunch on May 26th. They are not helped by (part-time) Minister Carey's statutory instrument that denies them any revenue from the new channels RTE NN and RTE +1. The RTE NN content is not mentioned by RTE at any time since the launch in May. Nor does RTE promote the digital radio on Saorview. Mind you, apart from that meaningless advert by the cat and dog, Saorview are not mentioned at all.

It must be remembered that RTE has a new DG, and it is looking for redundancies. They are also in a financial hole. So maybe there are more important issues.

Duke Leonal Felmet

Very little content speculation in this thread. Any goodies coming the way of Saorview soon?

warlikedave

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

Very little content speculation in this thread. Any goodies coming the way of Saorview soon?

Very little tangable data out there in regards to what was posted already - i wondering if we shall see any suprises myself

Duke Leonal Felmet

Just found this RTÉ NL channel. Strangely hypnotic. Like "How Do They Do It?", without the annoying narrator.

Elmo

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

Just found this RTÉ NL channel. Strangely hypnotic. Like "How Do They Do It?", without the annoying narrator.

The HD test video? Filmed around galway?

Duke Leonal Felmet

Elmo wrote: »

The HD test video? Filmed around galway?

yeah, and dublin. I was pretty decent. I think in hd?

Machinehead

Think I've asked this before without reply. So far 2HD have only had live OB programming in their HD schedeule. In view of the fact that they have the facility to play out the recorded HD promo video on the RTÉNL test channel, why no prime time HD recorded broadcasts for shows that have appeared elswhere in HD, eg "Come Fly With Me", "Human Planet", "The Kennedys" & probably much more, on RTÉ Two HD?

Machinehead

Machinehead wrote: »

Think I've asked this before without reply. So far 2HD have only had live OB programming in their HD schedeule. In view of the fact that they have the facility to play out the recorded HD promo video on the RTÉNL test channel, why no prime time HD recorded broadcasts for shows that have appeared elswhere in HD, eg "Come Fly With Me", "Human Planet", "The Kennedys" & probably much more, on RTÉ Two HD?

It's quite possible that the test channel is simply a pre-encoded transport stream and therefore would need very little equipment to run.

Sam Russell

Karsini wrote: »

It's quite possible that the test channel is simply a pre-encoded transport stream and therefore would need very little equipment to run.

It is mor likely that Minister (part time) Carey's SI forbids it.

tlaavtech

Machinehead wrote: »

Think I've asked this before without reply. So far 2HD have only had live OB programming in their HD schedeule. In view of the fact that they have the facility to play out the recorded HD promo video on the RTÉNL test channel, why no prime time HD recorded broadcasts for shows that have appeared elswhere in HD, eg "Come Fly With Me", "Human Planet", "The Kennedys" & probably much more, on RTÉ Two HD?

From a post from about a year ago, the tender for the HD switchover was in two stages. The first allowed a switch at the transmission end to allow Live HD programming to be transmitted in HD.

The second stage was to replace all the routing/playout equipment to HD. This is why studio-presented live games are still in SD while off-site studio presentations are in HD. I will try and find the original post, but I thought the switchgear should be replaced by now.

EDIT: Here is the original thread

and here is a quote from RTE's document:

##############################

1.3 Current Projects

RTÉ Television is currently in the implementation stage of the upgrade to its TV Presentation automation facility.


The principal elements of the upgrade are as follows:

• Replace the main core automation elements of ‘Compass’ (hardware and software) with the new automation system product
• Upgrade the existing Sirius SD router with an expandable SD/HD matrixl
• Replace the TX420 mixing control panels with an equivalent from Pixelpower.
• Replace the live archive system which uses Sony Flexicart with a new server based solution with LTO digital tapes for long term storage
• Introduce additional SD channels such as RTÉ 1 plus 1

It is important to note that at present all RTÉ Television services are tape reliant, except for commercial playout. All long form programming is delivered to TV Presentation on Digibeta tape and played from Sony Digibeta VTRs in Flexicarts.

Current plans envisage that this project will be executed in late 2010 and 1st half of 2011.

##########################################


When this happens, it will be interesting to see if the News Studio/gathering will be switched to HD just for the late RTE2 News programme.

Macy0161

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is frequently true at the moment that RTE 1, TG4, and RTE NewsNow are all broadcasting live content from the Dail. That is ridiculous. RTE NN also simulcasts all news programmes and Primetime etc. We have RTE 1, RTE 1+1, and RTE NN, all broadcasting the same stuff at prime time.

TG4 is a seperate channel, so it's a bit harsh to include them imo. BBC would simulcast news on both BBC1 and News, so for me my main issue is RTE1+1 - which RTE never wanted in the first place, and is a ridiculous sop to TV3 and Sky.

Sam Russell

Macy0161 wrote: »

TG4 is a seperate channel, so it's a bit harsh to include them imo. BBC would simulcast news on both BBC1 and News, so for me my main issue is RTE1+1 - which RTE never wanted in the first place, and is a ridiculous sop to TV3 and Sky.

My point is that RTE NN is non-existant in the RTE firmament. It has no income because it has no advertising, and gets no promotion. It is always simulcasting RTE news programmes, and then repeats them endlessly. Why does it not have an independant existance with its own schedule. Simulcasting is a total waste. That channel could be used for showing the likes of The Week in Politics live as it is recorded, rather than to wait until midnight to show it at the same time as RTE. It is a disaster that it is not allowed advertise, and therefor have a production budget.

All TV companies tend to copy others, so we need a news programme, and we need it to have a ticker-tape at the bottom so it can show the latest gossip, and we need to have a large area of the screen given over to static patterns so they can burn into the screen so we can still think we are watching after we turn off the TV. Is this progress?

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

My point is that RTE NN is non-existant in the RTE firmament. It has no income because it has no advertising, and gets no promotion. It is always simulcasting RTE news programmes, and then repeats them endlessly. Why does it not have an independant existance with its own schedule. Simulcasting is a total waste. That channel could be used for showing the likes of The Week in Politics live as it is recorded, rather than to wait until midnight to show it at the same time as RTE. It is a disaster that it is not allowed advertise, and therefor have a production budget.

Dustin pointed out that Echo Island had budget over imagination while The Den had imagination over budget. And he is right.

RTÉ need to look at their schedule they need to cut cost but are unwilling to use RTÉ NN to do this.

Promotion is important, as is a much more separate schedule.

They need to get rid of the repeats of RTÉ News Six One due to RTÉ ONE +1, replace it with News on 2 and ditch the live newscast on RTÉ Two at 11pm, have Bryan and Sharon say at the end of Six One, "Continued news coverage starts in 5 minutes over one RTÉ News Now with Eileen Walsh".

During the day the should ditch live newscasts on RTÉ One and have them on the hour on RTÉ News Now, and put repeats on RTÉ One. They repeat their Business news after each news headlines why not repeat Sports News?

After News on Two repeat Sporting shows from RTÉ Two and at 8:30 Business and Sports news from Six One and the Lunch time news or put on Oirechtas/Euro Report.

At the weekends use RTÉ Radio 1 for Vincent Browne type shows, no reason why a simulcast of This Week in a TV Studio cannot happen on the cheap, while repeating news reports rather then news shows from RTÉ News and Current Affairs, e.g. more of The Week in Politics Highlights but also reports from Six One, Nine News etc. Make it like Euronews. And don't be afraid to use the EBU's content that they have freely available to them.

A little bit of creative scheduling could transform the current RTÉ News Now. While I am at it I think Westminister coverage could have been cut yesterday for the much more important speech in Dáil Éireann.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

A little bit of creative scheduling could transform the current RTÉ News Now.

That is the problem at the moment. Creativity in RTE is lacking - even a little bit cannot be found. When will the new DG make an impression. There is definitely a coolness over Saorview. Maybe it should be renamed Sourview.

Pat Gleeson

Sam Russell wrote: »

There is definitely a coolness over Saorview. Maybe it should be renamed Sourview.

Probably because Saorview was forced on them at a time when they had little enough money as it was. Because of Saorview RTE have to find savings where did they didn't have to (or wanted to) before.
The consequeces of the consultation hasn't helped matters any.

Macy0161

I'm not really disagreeing regarding News Now, but RTE has been hamstrung by the BAI in developing this, and other channels. Do you think, even without the advertising, that TV3 wouldn't come up with some reason to complain if they extended the remit?

btw I think it should have The Week In Politics on earlier as well, although I don't think it is recorded "as live" for the full show.

btw 2 We actually would watch RTE News Now a fair bit in our house. We watch 6.1 at 7 regularly on News Now, as there's no ads compared to RTE1+1! It's the plus 1 channel that's the problem and makes no sense compared to what RTE actually wanted to do.

copacetic

tlaavtech wrote: »

When this happens, it will be interesting to see if the News Studio/gathering will be switched to HD just for the late RTE2 News programme.

All studios are totally independent of a presentation area so it doesn't make them any more capable for News.

A presentation area plays out the content for a channel based on a schedule. E.g at 6pm play the angelus tape, 6.01 take the feed from the news studio, 6.15 take the commercial break off a server and so on. All the addition of a HD matrix does is allow HD coming in to go out on RTE2HD.

You still need HD source material. If the news studio isn't HD it won't be in native HD on RTE2 HD.

Elmo wrote: »

They need to get rid of the repeats of RTÉ News Six One due to RTÉ ONE +1, replace it with News on 2 and ditch the live newscast on RTÉ Two at 11pm, have Bryan and Sharon say at the end of Six One, "Continued news coverage starts in 5 minutes over one RTÉ News Now with Eileen Walsh".

During the day the should ditch live newscasts on RTÉ One and have them on the hour on RTÉ News Now, and put repeats on RTÉ One. They repeat their Business news after each news headlines why not repeat Sports News?

.

How does moving news bulletins to a channel that 95% of viewers don't have save money? Do people who don't need or want saorview not deserve the news also?

tlaavtech

copacetic wrote: »

All studios are totally independent of a presentation area so it doesn't make them any more capable for News.
....
You still need HD source material. If the news studio isn't HD it won't be in native HD on RTE2 HD.

Sorry - I should have made myself more clear.

When the News studio was rebuilt a while back it was built with HD gear but is currently running SD. All the News ENG crews use HD capable equipment but only shoot SD (DVCAM format on XDCAM Discs). Therefore, the News studio is capable of HD. However, most of the output from the news studio is on RTE1 and therefore will be SD for the forseeable future. When the routing is upgraded, then theortically, News on RTE2 could go out HD, but would RTE bother? That was my tangent (and woefully explained) question

copacetic

tlaavtech wrote: »

Sorry - I should have made myself more clear.

When the News studio was rebuilt a while back it was built with HD gear but is currently running SD. All the News ENG crews use HD capable equipment but only shoot SD (DVCAM format on XDCAM Discs). Therefore, the News studio is capable of HD. However, most of the output from the news studio is on RTE1 and therefore will be SD for the forseeable future. When the routing is upgraded, then theortically, News on RTE2 could go out HD, but would RTE bother? That was my tangent (and woefully explained) question

Well you could record material in HD on the discs, but you couldnt get it live into the news as you dont have HD trucks, HD sat space or a HD station router. You have a 'HD capable' studio but you get your disk back and you have nowhere to ingest them; what about your central editing system and studio play out servers, all your graphics systems and your cameras?

Basically I'm saying imo it will be years and millions before we see native HD news, if not longer.

Elmo

copacetic wrote: »

How does moving news bulletins to a channel that 95% of viewers don't have save money? Do people who don't need or want saorview not deserve the news also?

Bulletin moves to earlier in the day, over runs on RTÉ Two occur every night costs go up from what I have gather when News On Two goes out after 11:20 why do RTÉ insist on an 11pm news that doesn't start at 11pm.

How many people have saorview currently? How many people know about it? RTÉ do not promo Saorview with in programming, RTÉ One doesn't mention its timeshift channels, RTÉ News and Current Affairs programming do not highlight the 24hour channel or its platform. Simple cross promotion. And nearly all of the digital radio promos have dropped Saorview.

People who don't need or want saorview will get the 7pm news repeat at around 11 on RTÉ TWO, hopefully with some cross promotion identified by the continuity announcer e.g. The following is a repeat of the 7pm news from RTÉ News Now Saorview channel 5.

A better schedule would also push NEWS NOW on to other platforms.

The daytime RTÉ One suggestion is just to put news on the hour rather then at 20past or 25past and prevent the news cutting into shows running on RTÉ e.g. Master Chef. Again that news would be repeated on RTÉ One for those without RTÉ News Now.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

Bulletin moves to earlier in the day, over runs on RTÉ Two occur every night costs go up from what I have gather when News On Two goes out after 11:20 why do RTÉ insist on an 11pm news that doesn't start at 11pm.

How many people have saorview currently? How many people know about it? RTÉ do not promo Saorview with in programming, RTÉ One doesn't mention its timeshift channels, RTÉ News and Current Affairs programming do not highlight the 24hour channel or its platform. Simple cross promotion. And nearly all of the digital radio promos have dropped Saorview.

People who don't need or want saorview will get the 7pm news repeat at around 11 on RTÉ TWO, hopefully with some cross promotion identified by the continuity announcer e.g. The following is a repeat of the 7pm news from RTÉ News Now Saorview channel 5.

A better schedule would also push NEWS NOW on to other platforms.

The daytime RTÉ One suggestion is just to put news on the hour rather then at 20past or 25past and prevent the news cutting into shows running on RTÉ e.g. Master Chef. Again that news would be repeated on RTÉ One for those without RTÉ News Now.

Surely that is what I am saying. Saorview does not exist as far as RTE is concerned. They should not wory about people who do not have it. Those people should go and get it. If Saorview is not the premier service, and analogue just a legacy service for the deprived, then it will be ASO before RTE can schedule properly. 12 months ago we were in this position, with a (more or less) full DTT service, shadowing the analogue service. We have had two launches, both bungled, and we are still with a DTT service shadowing the analogue service. DTT does not exist as far as RTE is concerned, and in twelve months we will be in the same position.

No-one in RTE cares about DTT ( most probable do not know anything about it) and nothing will happen in the next few months. I am not sure if this is a reaction to the SI not giving them what they wanted, or it is just not important anymore.

Gerry Wicklow

Could it be that RTÉ is taking the segregation thingy too far?
In other words Saorview is RTÉNL and nothing to do with RTÉ. It is uo to RTÉNL to pay for and promote it.

copacetic

Elmo wrote: »

Bulletin moves to earlier in the day, over runs on RTÉ Two occur every night costs go up from what I have gather when News On Two goes out after 11:20 why do RTÉ insist on an 11pm news that doesn't start at 11pm.

How many people have saorview currently? How many people know about it? RTÉ do not promo Saorview with in programming, RTÉ One doesn't mention its timeshift channels, RTÉ News and Current Affairs programming do not highlight the 24hour channel or its platform. Simple cross promotion. And nearly all of the digital radio promos have dropped Saorview.

People who don't need or want saorview will get the 7pm news repeat at around 11 on RTÉ TWO, hopefully with some cross promotion identified by the continuity announcer e.g. The following is a repeat of the 7pm news from RTÉ News Now Saorview channel 5.

A better schedule would also push NEWS NOW on to other platforms.

The daytime RTÉ One suggestion is just to put news on the hour rather then at 20past or 25past and prevent the news cutting into shows running on RTÉ e.g. Master Chef. Again that news would be repeated on RTÉ One for those without RTÉ News Now.

I guess I just don't see any reason to do that, except to push saorview as a platform. Assuming as a TV station you want the most people to watch your programmes, why would you ever let 20% of people get live news and 80% delayed news?

You would also lose a fortune in advertising.

Basically you would be reducing public service and losing a lot of money just to push a platform. It doesn't make any sense at all.

What should happen imo is more extra bulletins on the hour on news now and more finely tuned repeats, i.e sections of stories, extra content etc etc. Going on air straight away with breaking stories etc. This should never affect the main news content on rte1 or 2 though, people with sky and UPC are entitled to public service too.

Of course maybe after ASO if SKy and UPC take news now as a channel then these options are then valid. Until then they aren't viable and will never happen.

Sam Russell

copacetic wrote: »

I guess I just don't see any reason to do that, except to push saorview as a platform. Assuming as a TV station you want the most people to watch your programmes, why would you ever let 20% of people get live news and 80% delayed news?

You would also lose a fortune in advertising.

Basically you would be reducing public service and losing a lot of money just to push a platform. It doesn't make any sense at all.

What should happen imo is more extra bulletins on the hour on news now and more finely tuned repeats, i.e sections of stories, extra content etc etc. Going on air straight away with breaking stories etc. This should never affect the main news content on rte1 or 2 though, people with sky and UPC are entitled to public service too.

Of course maybe after ASO if SKy and UPC take news now as a channel then these options are then valid. Until then they aren't viable and will never happen.

Surely that is puting the cart before the horse. RTE have two extra channels that they cannot use because of UPC and Sky. But if they use them, UPC and Sky will be forced to use them. However, just to make life difficult, these two new channels have been starved of any advertising. Why did they bother with them at all?

3E was a cable only channel and it is now on Saorview. RTE NN is a Saorview only service and it should be made available on UPC and Sky.

We spent two years while the pay TV was plyed out. We will now wait 18 months while the clock ticks down on ASO. Why did the launch of Saorview on the 29th on October 2010, and again on 26th May 2011 mean everything continued as before. In fact we are coming upto the third anniversary of the launch of the MPEG 4 broadcasts of the RTE channels from 3Rock and CC. What are we doing to celebrate it in a few weeks time?

Elmo

copacetic wrote: »

I guess I just don't see any reason to do that, except to push saorview as a platform. Assuming as a TV station you want the most people to watch your programmes, why would you ever let 20% of people get live news and 80% delayed news?

You would also lose a fortune in advertising.

Basically you would be reducing public service and losing a lot of money just to push a platform. It doesn't make any sense at all.

What should happen imo is more extra bulletins on the hour on news now and more finely tuned repeats, i.e sections of stories, extra content etc etc. Going on air straight away with breaking stories etc. This should never affect the main news content on rte1 or 2 though, people with sky and UPC are entitled to public service too.

Of course maybe after ASO if SKy and UPC take news now as a channel then these options are then valid. Until then they aren't viable and will never happen.

This is about developing a platform that people might use, your attitude seems to be ignore the platform.

In the early years of DTT in the UK we all remember BBC 1, 2, ITV, C4 all having repeat showings of programming from their digital channels and their digital channels having programming from their main channels. BBC 1 used to BBC NEWS 24, while BBC 4 was on 2. It isn't just about the Freeview brand.

RTÉ NEWS NOW should be able to say News on the Hour.

You wouldn't loose a fortune in advertising as you point few have RTÉ NN so those watching would be the same audience as News on 2 (less tbqh) for that 20% against Nationwide and Emmerdale? As Neilsen don't know the numbers of viewers that have saorview your advertising point is moot.

rlogue

I disagree with the point Copaceptic made about RTE News Now - after all I get it here in London online - and frankly the picture quality is about the same as the picture we get on a Saorview telly back in Donegal. Where Saorview is available from my experience people tend to tune into RTE NN.

I certainly think that NN should be offered as a channel on satellite and cable - and shouldn't it be FTA while we're at it??

Elmo

rlogue wrote: »

I certainly think that NN should be offered as a channel on satellite and cable - and shouldn't it be FTA while we're at it??

Up to UPC and Sky to offer it, Magnet have put RTÉjr, RTÉ1+1 and RTÉNN on their network.