Saorview Content Speculation

copacetic · 21-07-2011 10:00pm

Elmo wrote: »

This is about developing a platform that people might use, your attitude seems to be ignore the platform.

In the early years of DTT in the UK we all remember BBC 1, 2, ITV, C4 all having repeat showings of programming from their digital channels and their digital channels having programming from their main channels. BBC 1 used to BBC NEWS 24, while BBC 4 was on 2. It isn't just about the Freeview brand.

RTÉ NEWS NOW should be able to say News on the Hour.

You wouldn't loose a fortune in advertising as you point few have RTÉ NN so those watching would be the same audience as News on 2 (less tbqh) for that 20% against Nationwide and Emmerdale? As Neilsen don't know the numbers of viewers that have saorview your advertising point is moot.

Well I don't care about any platform in particular, I care about the content overall. Moving content between channels to drive a platform is wrong imo, even the suggestion of it is why distribution should be independent of content.

I personally don't see any long term future for channels that can never support themselves and are a pure ongoing cost to the license fee payer. Whatever you think about RTE, taking money away year on year while also piling on extra cost isn't sustainable.

Re advertising, moving expensive content from rte1 and 2 to a non advertising station will cost you money, so it's not moot imo.

Elmo · 21-07-2011 10:07pm

copacetic wrote: »

Well I don't care about any platform in particular, I care about the content overall. Moving content between channels to drive a platform is wrong imo, even the suggestion of it is why distribution should be independent of content.

I personally don't see any long term future for channels that can never support themselves and are a pure ongoing cost to the license fee payer. Whatever you think about RTE, taking money away year on year while also piling on extra cost isn't sustainable.

RTÉ News Now is now an RTÉ station. I understand the DSO costs etc we all do. The lack of advertising is disappointing on RTÉ NN (alright if RTÉ Plus was given the go ahead). RTÉ knew when proposing RTÉNN that advertising in any case would be minimal, they suggested it would be a number of years before RTÉ NN would carry advertising if it had be let. RLougue is right about FTA RTÉ NN why not? why not have a Irish Internation News channel with Advertising?

You seem to be suggesting that if RTÉ Broadcasting was separate to RTÉ NL then RTÉ NN would not be happening. Unfortunately RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 are all now competing against channels that have had multichannel strategies for the last 10 years.

I didn't suggest any extra cost nor did anyone else we suggest providing a proper schedule on RTÉ News Now due to the clear number of repeats in prime time in relation to RTÉ One, RTÉ One +1 and RTÉ NN. And proper cross-over marketing for DTT channels.

Elmo · 21-07-2011 10:13pm

copacetic wrote: »

Re advertising, moving expensive content from rte1 and 2 to a non advertising station will cost you money, so it's not moot imo.

It is moot since RTÉ NN will never take part in advertising in Ireland. BBC channels do not effect advertising revenue for anyone, if they start to provide advertising they would, however if you could not get those channels in Ireland it would not effect advertising revenues.

It is also moot since Nielsen do not know how many viewers have saorview or how many viewers watch RTÉ NN (unlike Freeview and BBC NEWS 24) advertisers rely on nielsen to provide them with figures they cannot thus RTÉ NN, RTÉ 1+1 and RTÉjr do not effect advertising.

copacetic · 21-07-2011 10:19pm

Elmo wrote: »

It is moot since RTÉ NN will never take part in advertising in Ireland. BBC channels do not effect advertising revenue for anyone, if they start to provide advertising they would, however if you could not get those channels in Ireland it would not effect advertising revenues.

It is also moot since Nielsen do not know how many viewers have saorview or how many viewers watch RTÉ NN (unlike Freeview and BBC NEWS 24) advertisers rely on nielsen to provide them with figures they cannot thus RTÉ NN, RTÉ 1+1 and RTÉjr do not effect advertising.

I think we must be talking at cross purposes.

You suggested moving news bulletins from Rte 1 and 2 to news now.

Say for example you move the 1pm News from RTE1 to News Now. That's a large viewership, say it is 500k for example. They tune in early and catch the ad break before and the ad break after. So you would have say up to 6 mins of ads viewed by 500k.

Move this to news now, you get say 20k viewers and no ads. On RTE1 you have some other content, no matter what it is it will only get 100k to 200k viewers. So you are losing a large amount of money every day and also hardly anyone is getting public service news.

Elmo · 21-07-2011 10:27pm

copacetic wrote: »

I think we must be talking at cross purposes.

You suggested moving news bulletins from Rte 1 and 2 to news now.

Say for example you move the 1pm News from RTE1 to News Now. That's a large viewership, say it is 500k for example. They tune in early and catch the ad break before and the ad break after. So you would have say up to 6 mins of ads viewed by 500k.

Move this to news now, you get say 20k viewers and no ads. On RTE1 you have some other content, no matter what it is it will only get 100k to 200k viewers. So you are losing a large amount of money every day and also hardly anyone is getting public service news.

I am not suggesting any move of news totally to RTÉ NN.

Take RTÉ News on Two which gets around 100,000 - 150,000 viewers. Move it to 7pm on RTÉ News Now what will happen is news hounds will continue to watch on RTÉ News Now others will continue to tune to RTÉ One for Nationwide (300,000 - 400,000 viewers) and Emmerdale TV3 (200,000 - 300,000), other over to Two for Sports or Documentaries. RTÉ News Now would be lucky to get even a 1% share at that time. The majority of viewers would end up watching the repeat on RTÉ Two. As Saorview become more apparent RTÉ NN schedule would have to adapt.

Daytime news bulletins (not 1 news) would move to RTÉ NN to allow it to pretend to be a news channel, RTÉ One would retain this News Bulletins as repeats when it suits the RTÉ One schedule.

RTÉ do not carry advertising during RTÉ News on Two or Smaller News Bulletins. RTÉ should replace ad breaks with promo brakes on RTÉ NN.

Sam Russell · 21-07-2011 11:15pm

Elmo wrote: »

RTÉ should replace ad breaks with promo brakes on RTÉ NN.

They do - they advertise Saorview!

shadowninty · 21-07-2011 11:17pm

RNN should be used to for unplanned News, Politics and Current Affair broadcasts, like the Prime Time after the abuse report.

Elmo · 21-07-2011 11:23pm

shadowninty wrote: »

RNN should be used to for unplanned News, Politics and Current Affair broadcasts, like the Prime Time after the abuse report.

Prime Time will generally air a special for such events as they did on Wednesday Night.

The channel did cover NASA's final launch and the Earthquake in Japan from HNK and It has also carried many press conferences. It would be nice to see General Election coverage from other European nations (regardless of language). The Finnish GE for example, from YLE.

tlaavtech · 22-07-2011 12:15am

copacetic wrote: »

Well you could record material in HD on the discs, but you couldnt get it live into the news as you dont have HD trucks, HD sat space or a HD station router. You have a 'HD capable' studio but you get your disk back and you have nowhere to ingest them; what about your central editing system and studio play out servers, all your graphics systems and your cameras?

Basically I'm saying imo it will be years and millions before we see native HD news, if not longer.

The only things on that list that may not already HD are the uplinks and the routing. As i said earlier on, the routing is due to be ready around now, presumably for full use in September for the next Saorview milestone. Don't have definite info about the news uplinks, but I will ask. The late news does not use live links, so that's not an issue.

For internal editing and "moving" of media, RTE upgraded to a campus-wide Avid Unity system in the last two years, so there is no problem for HD file ingest, editing and distribution.

As I said the main news studio is HD ready - everything inside the door is HD - Cameras, mixers and caps generators - looking at the VT of the titles and graphics, these look like they are orginally HD, but downscaled for the moment. One switch on each piece of kit, and you are ready to go.

The studio may even be running HD internaly ready with the SD option taken out at the final stage of the vision mixer.

copacetic · 22-07-2011 9:42am

tlaavtech wrote: »

The only things on that list that may not already HD are the uplinks and the routing. As i said earlier on, the routing is due to be ready around now, presumably for full use in September for the next Saorview milestone. Don't have definite info about the news uplinks, but I will ask. The late news does not use live links, so that's not an issue.

For internal editing and "moving" of media, RTE upgraded to a campus-wide Avid Unity system in the last two years, so there is no problem for HD file ingest, editing and distribution.

As I said the main news studio is HD ready - everything inside the door is HD - Cameras, mixers and caps generators - looking at the VT of the titles and graphics, these look like they are orginally HD, but downscaled for the moment. One switch on each piece of kit, and you are ready to go.

The studio may even be running HD internaly ready with the SD option taken out at the final stage of the vision mixer.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree! Imo most of the information you have here is incorrect.

rlogue · 22-07-2011 10:05am

Do you have anything to back that statement up Copaceptic?

copacetic · 22-07-2011 10:10am

rlogue wrote: »

Do you have anything to back that statement up Copaceptic?

As I posted 'imo' I thought it was very clear I was posting an opinion, not claiming facts That would normally be in the public domain with nothing to back them up.

Elmo · 22-07-2011 10:53am

copacetic wrote: »

rlogue wrote: »

Do you have anything to back that statement up Copaceptic?

As I posted 'imo' I thought it was very clear I was posting an opinion, not claiming facts That would normally be in the public domain with nothing to back them up.

I would have also thought that news would be the lasr thing to go hd. Sports, then film, then imports, then home produced content and finally news.

tlaavtech · 22-07-2011 12:05pm

Agreed -but if the building blocks are there ...

rlogue · 22-07-2011 12:46pm

Back in the 70s the News went colour fairly early on compared to other studio productions. If the news studio and production facilities and news gathering equipment are already HD surely the only thing holding it all back is the fact that RTE One are still in sub-SD (544X576 is not SD) on the digital services?

rlogue · 22-07-2011 12:48pm

copacetic wrote: »

As I posted 'imo' I thought it was very clear I was posting an opinion, not claiming facts That would normally be in the public domain with nothing to back them up.

Thanks for that, I'll use that get-out clause in future. :P

Sam Russell · 22-07-2011 12:50pm

Elmo wrote: »

I would have also thought that news would be the lasr thing to go hd. Sports, then film, then imports, then home produced content and finally news.

I would have thought News production was the first. It was that way for colour at least. News is fairly concentrated, used most of the time, and is a flagship for the station. Sports is easier to do as it is contracted out to independants. The hardest to do are the dramas, but then RTE do not do many of them.

Elmo · 22-07-2011 12:56pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would have thought News production was the first. It was that way for colour at least. News is fairly concentrated, used most of the time, and is a flagship for the station. Sports is easier to do as it is contracted out to independants. The hardest to do are the dramas, but then RTE do not do many of them.

IMO

Having to upgrade all local news crews to HD would be my issue, Fair City is based in RTÉ HQ so that should be fairly simple as it rarely does on location filming, while co-productions such as Single Handed are already possible filmed in HD and Independent productions such as Love/Hate and Raw are really up to independent companies. I think Love/Hate was filmed in RED which I think is HD????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MV1ot9HkPg

Sam Russell · 22-07-2011 1:08pm

Elmo wrote: »

IMO Having to upgrade all local news crews to HD would be my issue, ..........

RTE already cover that with "We appologise for the quality of the images in that report ...."

Most outside sources on HD News stations are accepted as is, and not not always in HD. Look what the currently do with US sourced 4:3 material - they chop it.

They will still be HD in the studio and that is what counts.

Elmo · 22-07-2011 1:35pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

RTE already cover that with "We appologise for the quality of the images in that report ...."

Most outside sources on HD News stations are accepted as is, and not not always in HD. Look what the currently do with US sourced 4:3 material - they chop it.

They will still be HD in the studio and that is what counts.

For 2 hours of the week!

tlaavtech · 22-07-2011 1:35pm

Elmo wrote: »

IMO Having to upgrade all local news crews to HD would be my issue

Regional crews updated to XDCAM HD cameras a few years ago, so that is not a problem.

I think Love/Hate was filmed in RED which I think is HD????

Yup - Has been used for "proper" movies - District 9 was the one of the big ones for the original system.

tlaavtech · 22-07-2011 2:18pm

Having received further clarification, HD news is not on the agenda/possible for the forseeable future.

Elmo · 22-07-2011 6:40pm

tlaavtech wrote: »

Having received further clarification, HD news is not on the agenda/possible for the forseeable future.

Did you specificly ask about rte news on two?

tlaavtech · 22-07-2011 7:55pm

Apparently the studio, despite a complete refit two years ago was not made ready for a quick switch to HD. I had thought it had been a full HD upgrade but I remembered it wrong - my mistake

glimmerman123 · 27-07-2011 12:47pm

I noticed RTE jr on Saorview channel 7 has no dog for the past few days. I wonder are RTE going to drop the dog on RTE1 and two as well?

Sam Russell · 27-07-2011 2:00pm

glimmerman123 wrote: »

I noticed RTE jr on Saorview channel 7 has no dog for the past few days. I wonder are RTE going to drop the dog on RTE1 and two as well?

I thought RTE jr had Pippa Pig instead.

glimmerman123 · 27-07-2011 4:30pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I thought RTE jr had Pippa Pig instead.

Got me on that one Sam:P and while i'm talking about dogs would it be ok if i called you Jack Russell?

Elmo · 28-07-2011 4:10pm

Creative Capital Report suggests 2-5 years for Irish Film Channel, run by the IFB. It also suggests giving producers the ability to own content rights rather then broadcasters.

I have only got to quickly look at the report but I haven't got to the part about how the new channel will be paid for, but it does suggest that the Sound and Vision Fund becoming part of the IFB rather then the BAI.

http://www.arts-sport-tourism.gov.ie/pdfs/creative%20capital%20final%202011.pdf

Sam Russell · 28-07-2011 5:01pm

It would be good is the Sound and Vision Fund were to have some form of quality control, and also if they retained rights to the ultimate programme.

Some of the rubbish that is produced under this fund ..... :mad:

Elmo · 28-07-2011 5:09pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

It would be good is the Sound and Vision Fund were to have some form of quality control, and also if they retained rights to the ultimate programme.

I have issues with allowing Independent producers take full control of the final product, RTÉ and TG4 invest allot of money into many programmes and they should be able to receive something from international sales (the shows format, script etc should be retain with the producers).

AFAIK Sound and Vision programming is only fund through the BAI, and the BAI do not retain rights, which I have issues with as I feel the BAI should be able to ad additional funding from programmes made.

The IFB are better placed to commission using S&V than the BAI.

Saorview Content Speculation

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