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Africa Day, Iveagh Gardens Dublin 16th May

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    #152
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    A gift from the king.
    Shakespeare on the other hand wrote plays and performed them for cash.

    So he didnt have patrons? Despite evidence stating otherwise?


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    #153
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    Nodin wrote: »
    I've already done so.

    Since you refuse to retract it, I've been forced to report you.

    Nodin wrote: »
    I was correct and provided various sources to show that.

    I must have missed the bit about the government grants. Could you please quote it?
    Nodin wrote: »
    Do you think those companies were picked at random and put there for the laugh?

    I have no knowledge of what their involvement is. I can only repeat myself so many times before it becomes tedious.


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    #154
    theboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 220 ✭✭theboxer


    diddledum wrote: »
    Have you never heard of investment in people? People reciprocate, you make them feel worthy and welcome, they are more likely to prosper and give back to society, not hard to understand surely?

    Reciprocate? This event has been staged for a couple of years now. Are you claiming that africans, a small majority of whom came here as asylum seekers, are a net benefit to the public exchequer?:eek:


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    #155
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    rovert wrote: »
    So he didnt have patrons? Despite evidence stating otherwise?

    He didn't get any government grants.
    Or do you have evidence stating otherwise?


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    #156
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    theboxer wrote: »
    Reciprocate? This event has been staged for a couple of years now. Are you claiming that africans, a small majority of whom came here as asylum seekers, are a net benefit to the public exchequer?:eek:

    A small majority? Really?


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    #157
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Nodin wrote: »
    I've already done so.



    I was correct and provided various sources to show that.

    You really have not proven that the poster you are accusing is a racist. I can certainly see nothing racist by that poster in this thread up to the point where you make the allegation & on that basis I have reported your post.

    Not sure what the moderator take on this will be but in my view some people (you) are very very trigger happy with slinging the 'racist' allegation about the place.


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    #158
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    He didn't get any government grants.
    Or do you have evidence stating otherwise?

    Wasnt your inital argument you said he was a self made man who didnt get hand outs.

    Try harder.


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    #159
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    theboxer wrote: »
    Reciprocate? This event has been staged for a couple of years now. Are you claiming that africans, a small majority of whom came here as asylum seekers, are a net benefit to the public exchequer?:eek:

    And just on this, I know many African professionals and business people. They are not looking for handouts or welfare. They pay their own way and set up businesses which benefit the exchequer. It's just good economics to encourage contributing members of a society to feel welcomed.


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    #160
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    rovert wrote: »
    Wasnt your inital argument you said he was a self made man who didnt get hand outs.

    Try harder.

    So what were the handouts?
    Seriously, Shakespeare didn't receive government grants. I can't believe you're even disputing that.


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    #161
    theboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 220 ✭✭theboxer


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    The funding for this event comes from Irish Aid who have a budget of around €670 million per year for overseas aid.

    How much of that cash goes into a black hole? I have no problem with tax relief for those who want to privately donate to charity but this foreign aid lark is another one of the governments largesse. Just like Hollywood celebs, they throw cash around mostly to impress. Isnt Paddy great, eh?

    We no longer have any capacity for foreign aid, we are haemorraghing billions in our normal activity. Give up on foreign aid, invest the cash on job creation and when we get back on our feet, we can look at the situation again.

    Heres a brilliant article on foreign aid.

    - http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/book_extracts/article7107052.ece


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    #162
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    Millicent wrote: »
    It's just good economics to encourage contributing members of a society to feel welcomed.

    You could target that better with tax breaks for the employed.


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    #163
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,114 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    theboxer wrote: »
    Now, that is a racial generalisation.

    Mmm, possibly. Now, who else (other than white Europeans) did it? The Arabs, certainly. But we thought of them as exploitative, racist slave-drivers.

    We, on the other hand, are cultured, advanced, superior, civilised. We have a right to our slaves. And a right to their natural resources.


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    #164
    theboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 220 ✭✭theboxer


    Millicent wrote: »
    A small majority? Really?

    Yes, do you refute my claim? I can pull the stats up for you, but I would much prefer to go next door for last orders.:)


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    #165
    Super-Rush
    Registered Users Posts: 19,473 ✭✭✭✭Super-Rush


    Fo Real wrote: »
    The blacks have already hi-jacked our national holiday, St. Patrick's Day. Why is our tax money being used to fund another African festival? We have no cultural or historical ties with that particular continent.

    Also lol @ the term "New Irish". They will never be Irish.

    Banned


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    #166
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    theboxer wrote: »
    Yes, do you refute my claim? I can pull the stats up for you, but I would much prefer to go next door for last orders.:)

    I do but I'm always willing to be proven wrong. And just because someone is an asylum seeker, doesn't mean they are of no net benefit to the exchequer as I pointed out in my last post.


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    #167
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    So what were the handouts?
    Seriously, Shakespeare didn't receive government grants. I can't believe you're even disputing that.

    Again try harder.

    Enough with the strawmen.

    Shakespeare had patrons where is the shame in that?


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    #168
    theboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 220 ✭✭theboxer


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    We, on the other hand, are cultured, advanced, superior, civilised. We have a right to our slaves. And a right to their natural resources.

    Double standards at play here. Some europeans had slaves. Some europeans committed atrocities on the african sub continent. Some. A small minority. But in your naive little world, I, a white Irish male am guilty, just because my skin is the same colour as the slave owners.

    Your white guilt trip wont work on me.


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    #169
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    rovert wrote: »
    Enough with the strawmen.

    So you've finally accepted that Elizabethan patronage - ie the lending of good name to secure safe passage - does not amount to receiving government grants?


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    #170
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    theboxer wrote: »
    How much of that cash goes into a black hole? I have no problem with tax relief for those who want to privately donate to charity but this foreign aid lark is another one of the governments largesse. Just like Hollywood celebs, they throw cash around mostly to impress. Isnt Paddy great, eh?

    We no longer have any capacity for foreign aid, we are haemorraghing billions in our normal activity. Give up on foreign aid, invest the cash on job creation and when we get back on our feet, we can look at the situation again.

    Heres a brilliant article on foreign aid.

    - http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/book_extracts/article7107052.ece

    I don't agree with either foreign aid or charities.


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    #171
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Lads, if you want to continue the argument of Shakespeare's funding or lack of it, is there any chance of starting another thread about it or doing it by PM as the argument really has no relevance to this thread.


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    #172
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    You could target that better with tax breaks for the employed.

    But socially you don't see how it makes sense? To make possible business owners and professionals feel welcome? Or even financially while we're at it.

    Because as a country, we trade on our welcoming nature especially when it comes to tourism- an industry that could stand to be reinvigorated. We also trade economically on making corporations feel welcome here and created a good portion of our boom from it.


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    #173
    Boxoffrogs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 458 ✭✭Boxoffrogs


    theboxer wrote: »
    Reciprocate? This event has been staged for a couple of years now. Are you claiming that africans, a small majority of whom came here as asylum seekers, are a net benefit to the public exchequer?:eek:

    I'm talking for the main part about the future of these people, lots of whom wish to stay in this country and therefore the usual will happen, they have children, their children will grow up here as Irish citizens and they will participate in Irish life. I have no doubt that there will be future doctors/scientists/teachers etc. among them.

    But on your point, you're surely not suggesting that they are work shy, are you? I'm not sure about the relevance of stating that they arrived here as asylum seekers


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    #174
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    So you've finally accepted that Elizabethan patronage - ie the lending of good name to secure safe passage - does not amount to receiving government grants?

    Wut

    You are flipping your story here. You said Shakespeare was a self made man who didnt recieve handouts. Stop dodging the patronage issue.


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    #175
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    Millicent wrote: »
    But socially you don't see how it makes sense? To make possible business owners and professionals feel welcome? Or even financially while we're at it.

    Actually, no I don't. People migrate for opportunity and employment all over the place. Should every ex-pat on the planet be welcomed with a fanfare and a government-funded day of celebration for their culture?
    Millicent wrote: »
    Because as a country, we trade on our welcoming nature especially when it comes to tourism- an industry that could stand to be reinvigorated. We also trade economically on making corporations feel welcome here and created a good portion of our boom from it.

    I'm not even going to ask what proportion of our tourism or FDI you believe comes from Africa.


  • Options
    #176
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    rovert wrote: »
    Wut

    You are flipping your story here. You said Shakespeare was a self made man who didnt recieve handouts. Stop dodging the patronage issue.

    This is my final post on this, because I concur with others that you're attempting to divert the thread.
    Shakespeare didn't receive government grants or, to use your term, handouts. If he had, you'd have provided some evidence by now. And you haven't.


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    #177
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,114 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    theboxer wrote: »
    Double standards at play here.

    The double standards are on our side. Europeans did what they wished for centuries in Africa, but we don't want them to follow us back here. Migration is a one way street.


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    #178
    theboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 220 ✭✭theboxer


    diddledum wrote: »
    But on your point, you're surely not suggesting that they are work shy, are you? I'm not sure about the relevance of stating that they arrived here as asylum seekers

    I never said they were work shy.

    Around the late 90s, the word must have gone around in certain african countries that Ireland was a soft touch for immigration. Ireland had and continues to have no effective structure in place to deal with immigration and the government, thinking it had unlimited funds simply sat on their hands and let the situation get out of control. I am getting off topic here, but heres a fun fact. Ireland, a country with no direct flights from Nigeria, received more Nigerian asylum seekers during the last decade, than any other EU country.


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    #179
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    This is my final post on this, because I concur with others that you're attempting to divert the thread.
    Shakespeare didn't receive government grants or, to use your term, handouts. If he had, you'd have provided some evidence by now. And you haven't.

    Except repeatedly point to his patrons/sponsers despite you inital claims he was self made man....


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    #180
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    Actually, no I don't. People migrate for opportunity and employment all over the place. Should every ex-pat on the planet be welcomed with a fanfare and a government-funded day of celebration for their culture?



    I'm not even going to ask what proportion of our tourism or FDI you believe comes from Africa.

    Not every ex-pat but yes, when a large proportion of your immigrant community is from a certain continent, to not recognise them is, well, rude. And in all fairness, a lot of Irish people expect that fanfare and more when they emigrate.

    As to what "I believe"? I believe I tend to research my points when needed and add links to back up my opinions. I did not patronise you in any way; kindly don't do the same to me.


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    #181
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    Incidentally, why are the tags for this thread "dole leeches" and "parasites"? :(

    Hm.


This discussion has been closed.
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