this is what the transition looks like when a boy becomes a girl

Eebs · 30-06-2010 7:53pm

You know I think it's really important to step away from the idea that a 'sucessful' transition is one that means you're attractive after. Especially for transwomen because that's a horrible standard that all women are held to. Don't buy into it. Just like I think transmen shouldn't buy into the idea that being a man means being aggressive etc.

Generally I hate threads like this because I think it leads to a lot of people judging trans people based on their 'passability' and also their looks. At the end of the day, passing doesn't make you a better trans person or more authentic and I think that's a myth that gets sort of perpetuated by threads like this sometimes (consciously or unconsciously).
That said though, I totally understand the feeling of 'not being alone' and also the happiness it can bring to see happy transitioned folk and wanting the same transformation for yourself. I think/hope ultimately that's what this thread is about, but I think it's important to try not make appearances forefront of our minds.

Katherine Jane · 30-06-2010 7:56pm

I agree Eebs. A successful transition is one which the person transitioning looks comfortable, and happy in their own skin. THAT is how I am with mine. Some might call me pretty, some might say I am ugly. I am comfortable with my changes, and I feel like I am 100% me.

Eebs · 30-06-2010 8:01pm

Likewise. We all have body issues and things we'd like to change or are paranoid about but in the end I love all the good and the bad now. I'm just happy being recognised for me. and actually the biggest part was probably recognising myself as me. Once I sorted it out in my head things were a lot easier.

Freiheit · 30-06-2010 8:01pm

women in general (and to a lesser extent men) are judged too much for their appearance. I ran a charity race for Pieta House about 6 weeks ago, there was photo's of an incredibly beautiful 30 year old woman......who had committed suicide....beauty doesn't necessarily equate to happiness.....there is many measures of success........

Katherine Jane · 30-06-2010 8:05pm

You aren't kidding about body issues! haha. Yeah, we all have things that we would change about ourselves. But I think the main thing I look at is how comfortable someone looks. Not all of us are going to become Bond Girls, or Victoria's Secret models. But we CAN be happy with ourselves.

Links234 · 30-06-2010 8:24pm

Eebs wrote: »

You know I think it's really important to step away from the idea that a 'sucessful' transition is one that means you're attractive after. Especially for transwomen because that's a horrible standard that all women are held to. Don't buy into it. Just like I think transmen shouldn't buy into the idea that being a man means being aggressive etc.

Generally I hate threads like this because I think it leads to a lot of people judging trans people based on their 'passability' and also their looks. At the end of the day, passing doesn't make you a better trans person or more authentic and I think that's a myth that gets sort of perpetuated by threads like this sometimes (consciously or unconsciously).
That said though, I totally understand the feeling of 'not being alone' and also the happiness it can bring to see happy transitioned folk and wanting the same transformation for yourself. I think/hope ultimately that's what this thread is about, but I think it's important to try not make appearances forefront of our minds.

Sorry, I worded my post pretty badly, and I certainly don't want to come off too concerned with appearance, so I'm very sorry if I gave that impression. I do agree with you completely, and the only intentions I have in posting these was sharing a major source of inspiration. That last one I posted was just hugely inspiring, and really made me think "Ok, I can do this!" and not just because of the physical transformation. You see that lifeless expression in the first pic? I had that exact same thing, it is identical to the dead look I had in my eyes when I look back at older pictures of myself.

Eebs · 30-06-2010 8:38pm

Don't worry Links. It's good to just even have this conversation anyways. Wasn't trying to be personally critical to you.

Freiheit · 30-06-2010 8:39pm

I think personaly good visual results can be inspiring..........:) I've my heart set on ffs in a few years.

Katherine Jane · 30-06-2010 8:51pm

Freiheit wrote: »

I think personaly good visual results can be inspiring..........:) I've my heart set on ffs in a few years.

FFS... Might I ask if you have begun HRT yet? In many cases, FFS isn't even needed.

Links234 · 30-06-2010 8:53pm

Eebs wrote: »

Don't worry Links. It's good to just even have this conversation anyways. Wasn't trying to be personally critical to you.

Ah ok.

You're right though, it is an extremely good conversation to have, and I definitely agree with you, especially about standards, and what you said about thinking being a man is being aggressive. One of the points I made in the trans sticky thread was about attributing a higher standard of femininity to trans women than cis women. I decided I'm not going to apply any kind of standards for myself, I am certainly not a girly girl and I don't intend on acting like one either, because that's just not who I am. I'm pretty much a MtF tomboy if you like

Freiheit · 30-06-2010 8:54pm

I'm seeing Dr O'Shea/Canavan in October,have the appointment, shockingly slow and inept really (first referred nearly two years ago but original referral was lost,telephone's very rarely answered etc).....I'm aware that hrt isn't necesary, but it is recommended for at least 6 months...but I won't have the cash for at least a year,possibly 2 anyway...

Katherine Jane · 30-06-2010 8:59pm

None of it is neccessary, but of the two, I lean toward seeing if HRT works before going through Facial Surgery.

HRT will work wonders, if you give it a chance.

Freiheit · 30-06-2010 9:07pm

Must have a discussion with someone who knows the system (perhaps at a support group) before attending Loughlinstown........

I've actually naturally changed my voice most of the time the past year. Was really just a matter of it becoming reflective of me, not becoming someone else, it became me. Occasionaly if I'm in spontaneous and flowing speech it reverts to a more masculine tone.....

deirdre_dub · 30-06-2010 10:21pm

Freiheit wrote: »

Must have a discussion with someone who knows the system (perhaps at a support group) before attending Loughlinstown........

I've been in the system since this time last year. I also should be able to find out where your nearest support group is (TENI have been setting them up around the country recently). Feel free to PM me.

Best of luck with your transition!
Deirdre.

Eebs · 30-06-2010 10:26pm

Freiheit wrote: »

Must have a discussion with someone who knows the system (perhaps at a support group) before attending Loughlinstown........

I've actually naturally changed my voice most of the time the past year. Was really just a matter of it becoming reflective of me, not becoming someone else, it became me. Occasionaly if I'm in spontaneous and flowing speech it reverts to a more masculine tone.....

Likewise (to dee) been in for 4+ years. It's a bit of a gauntlet alright. I still hate going and it's all very routine stuff at this stage (wait for 3 hours, take bloods, in for 5 min, write prescription, don't look at said bloods, wash, rinse, repeat). So if you want to PM me too you're welcome to.

One of the points I made in the trans sticky thread was about attributing a higher standard of femininity to trans women than cis women.

Links234 you're so right. Have you read Julia Serano's book 'Whipping Girl'? I'd HIGHLY recommend it for reading by transwomen in particular. She makes some brilliant points in it.

We're slightly off topic though even though there is some context here. Perhaps a 'transition' thread should be started.

L.Jenkins · 30-06-2010 10:30pm

Links234 wrote: »

Well, I'm planning a lip ring. And more.

I wouldn't exactly shy away from body mods now, would I?

I got a lip piercing. Hurt the first time around, then took it out because I came home from the US and didn't want family to see it. The hole sealed then I got it repierced in the same hole when I went back and it hurt like hell the second time.

If you get one, remember cleaning and good hygiene is the main thing. Your mouth needs to be washed out with salt water to clean the lip ring every few hours and you need to brush after every meal and cigerette, pain in the ass but worth it.

deirdre_dub wrote: »

I've been in the system since this time last year. I also should be able to find out where your nearest support group is (TENI have been setting them up around the country recently). Feel free to PM me.

Best of luck with your transition!
Deirdre.

I know the nearest for me is Galway. I love that place. I'd move there in a heartbeat.

Links234 · 01-07-2010 6:04am

Eebs wrote: »

Links234 you're so right. Have you read Julia Serano's book 'Whipping Girl'? I'd HIGHLY recommend it for reading by transwomen in particular. She makes some brilliant points in it.

You know what's funny? I only just bought it online the other day!

I've been meaning to read it, because I loved what Julia had to say on her website, she's fantastic.

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

I got a lip piercing. Hurt the first time around, then took it out because I came home from the US and didn't want family to see it. The hole sealed then I got it repierced in the same hole when I went back and it hurt like hell the second time.

If you get one, remember cleaning and good hygiene is the main thing. Your mouth needs to be washed out with salt water to clean the lip ring every few hours and you need to brush after every meal and cigerette, pain in the ass but worth it.

Thanks very much for the advice, I'll remember it.

Freiheit · 01-07-2010 11:32am

This is off topic but hey it's of benefit to me and hopefully others, Is the usual regime a Testosterone blocker at first? and then gradualy build? and is it true that chest x-rays are required? As a former smoker I'd hate to see my chest!:)...well an on-off smoker for much of my adult life, off completely the past 9 months......I did attend Teni outside Dublin a few years ago and it was very weak numericaly...therefore of minimal benefit, just 3 or 4 in attendance..I'm hoping to make Dublin before I see Dr O Shea as it should be stronger in this respect?

By the way Whipping Girl is great, bought it 3 times, for myself and significant people in my life...the best Gender related book I've read.

Links234 · 01-07-2010 12:53pm

I think it's all still on topic, the discussion is still transition related and it's good having related conversations in the same space.

SassyGirl_1 · 01-07-2010 10:26pm

Dr. O'Shea usually prescribes Zoladex, which is usually prescribed to treat prostate cancer; however one of the side effects is to knock testosterone production on the head. It’s a monthly injection into your tummy.
Once you get a prescription from Dr.O’Shea you collect it from your local pharmacy. As it’s a high-tech drug you have to give them one to two days notice to get it in for you. You can then either inject yourself, if you’re feeling brave, or take it to your doctor to inject (that’ll probably cost you though). Your local Dr. can renew your script every six months – so you don’t have to go back to Dr.O’Shea.

The recommended treatment is to do Zoladex for the first month, see how you react and then start on estradot patches after that – 2 a week. It used to be Estraderm but they stopped making them about two months or so ago. Estradot are better anyway as they’re only ¼ the size of Estraderm patches.
It’s quite expensive so you get the drug payment card thingy (can’t remember the name off hand) so it doesn’t cost more than €120 a month.

It not a chest x-ray you get, it’s a bone density scan – (Taken from Drugs.com)
“Zoladex can decrease bone mineral density, which may increase your risk of developing osteoporosis. This risk may be greater if you smoke, drink alcohol frequently, have a family history of osteoporosis, or use certain drugs such as seizure medications or steroids.”

Dr. O’Shea recommends you get one before, or just after starting treatment.
When visiting Dr. O’Shea for the first time, as far as I know, he will just take you history, ask a few question, ask you do you have questions and do a blood test (so don’t eat before your first visit) – He will not prescribe any hormones on the first visit.

If I remember correctly he’ll ask you to visit again three months after starting (It’s been about three and half year since I started) and then once a year after that – just as a check-up. Of course this depends on your bodies’ reaction to the drugs. On the second visit you should ask what blood tests he would like done, this way you have your local gp do the test rather than having to traipse all the way to Dublin to do it – especially as it has to be a “fasting” blood test i.e. no eating 12 hours beforehand.

L.Jenkins · 02-07-2010 12:09am

I think I seen the needle for that. I don't mind needles but it's fecking huge and scary.

Freiheit · 02-07-2010 12:53pm

Is there usually side affects with Zoladex? Are any of the treatments available through the medical card?

deirdre_dub · 02-07-2010 1:50pm

Freiheit wrote: »

This is off topic but hey it's of benefit to me and hopefully others, Is the usual regime a Testosterone blocker at first? and then gradualy build?

You start on testosterone blocker. As SassyGirl says, it's Zoladex, and as ItsThatManAgain says, the needle is feckin huge. I wouldn't recommend injecting yourself the first time - if you get it wrong, I believe you could puncture your stomach. You have to get it once every 28 days or once every 3 x 28 = 84 days.

I would recommend that you get your GP to inject you the first few times, and watch and learn, if you intend to eventually do it yourself.

The dosage of Zoladex doesn't change. Your testosterone levels will quickly fall, and you will remain on Zoladex for about 2 years. The theory is that after 2 years, your body should have "given up" producing testosterone, especially since, in the mean time, you will have been flooded with estrogen. However, it doesn't always work out that way...

Usually you are on Zoladex for 3 or 4 months before they start you on estrogen patches ("Estradot") or tablets. If you go for the patches, you start off on 50ug a day, increasing to 100ug a day after 3-4 months. 100ug a day is as far as they go in Loughlinstown, in spite of the fact that the international standard is for between 200ug and 400ug a day.

Of course, all the above assumes there are no complications.

and is it true that chest x-rays are required?

No. And as for bone density scans - I haven't been asked to do any.

As a former smoker I'd hate to see my chest!

It is a good idea to be as healthy as you can be before starting transition, for obvious reasons.

I did attend Teni outside Dublin a few years ago and it was very weak numericaly...therefore of minimal benefit, just 3 or 4 in attendance..I'm hoping to make Dublin before I see Dr O Shea as it should be stronger in this respect?

I'm in the TENI support group in Dublin quite regularly. A quiet night would be maybe 8 people, a busy night would be 20. Note that it is every second Wednesday, and sometimes a Wednesday is skipped due to other commitments of the facilitator. So be sure that it is on before making the trip up to Dublin - phone Outhouse, or PM me.

Is there usually side affects with Zoladex?

Yes - terrible, terrible side effects. Breast growth, reduction of body hair, things like that

. Seriously, as SassyGirl says, decrease of bone mineral density is a side-effect. Another side-effect which may or may not be a problem for you is that your libido will quickly go to zero.

Are any of the treatments available through the medical card?

I just don't know, but I imagine so.

The good news is that you don't have to pay Dr. O'Shea. I'm not sure how it works - all I know is that it does - and so I have kinda let sleeping dogs lie with that one.

One of the most expensive things about transition, which is different for each individual, is the removal of body hair (I was like a gorilla, so it was very important for me). The story with getting laser hair removal and/or electrolysis is that it is recognised by the health service as a "necessary treatment", which means that if you can find a hospital which does it, you can get it for free. I have heard a rumour of someone who managed to pull that one off - however, I've also heard that any hospital that does it have their staff trained by the private practitioners!

As for voice training - any time myself or any of my friends ask about voice training, we hit a brick wall. One of my friends was told by Loughlinstown "you have to go to the UK for that"!

Anyway, good luck!
Deirdre.

deirdre_dub · 02-07-2010 1:54pm

Regarding the cost of Zoladex - if you cannot get it on your medical card (I don't know if you can or not), then make sure you are registered for the Drug Payment Scheme before you get your first prescription. Without the DPS, the "monthly" (28-day) Zoladex injection costs something like EUR 350. With it, it costs EUR 120, and EUR 120 is the maximum you will pay in any one month for any amount of prescribed drugs you get (including your estrogen).

deirdre_dub · 02-07-2010 2:09pm

One last thing (sorry!). Zoladex is a "high-tech" drug, which means that you have to get it from the same pharmacy every time. What that means is that when you get your prescription, the pharmacy will take it off you, and keep it on file. When it is time for your next dose, you go back to the same pharmacy, and get it from them.

So don't take your prescription to the nearest pharmacy to Loughlinstown hospital when you get it - wait until you get home!!!

Freiheit · 02-07-2010 4:05pm

Thanks Deirdre, I'll digest all of that!:) Mind if I ask also how you 'transitioned' within your community?...I don't know what type of community you live in...I've a fairly high profile where I live because of the family business..but I do recognise that people do move on and todays headlines are tommorrow's old news...

Links234 · 03-07-2010 12:18pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iDpx2PEM3E

deirdre_dub · 04-07-2010 2:12pm

Freiheit wrote: »

Mind if I ask also how you 'transitioned' within your community?...I don't know what type of community you live in...I've a fairly high profile where I live because of the family business..but I do recognise that people do move on and todays headlines are tommorrow's old news...

How do you do social transitioning? That is an absolutely huge question! It is, I believe, the most important aspect of transitioning.

I'm not sure of the specific question you are (or might be) asking. Social transitioning consists of things like coming out (a huge subject in itself), un-learning how to be a male in society and learning how to be a female in society (another huge subject), dealing with strangers (which is something that will change as you progress in your transition), dealing with the legal system ('nuff said) etc.

You seem to be worried about how your transition will be accepted by your family business customers? Since I'm not in such a public-facing situation, I can only write a bit about how my transition has been accepted by strangers on the street and by some of my friends.

When I started going out with my trans friends, about 18 months ago, we got a comment from a stranger on the street maybe once in every 4-5 hours of actually being out on the street. Now, I sometimes do my grocery shopping dressed, I fairly regularly take the DART dressed, and of course I still go out with my friends, and I almost never get a comment. I think I've received three comments this year so far, and all of them were when I was out with my friends being loud and proud on a great night out!

Why have the number of comments I get plummeted? I believe it is partly because I look better (9 months HRT, tons of laser hair removal, and a proper hairstyle), partly because I've learned how to dress and do makeup properly, but mostly because I've learned to (almost) not give a sh*t! A mantra you will hear from older t-girls is "it's all about confidence". If you carry yourself in a way where you look scared, then people will notice, see that you are scared, and ask themselves "why is she scared?". Some will immediately figure out the answer and, if they are so disposed, make some sort of comment.

As for my friends - for the most part, they have been between fantastic and OK. There is one who is a real problem, and two who are struggling. But I've also had huge admiration of my courage expressed to me.

As for you acceptance by your customers - if you truly accept yourself, are able to hold you head high, smile, project confidence and happiness, I reckon the vast majority of people will pick up on that and react in kind. That is where you need to get yourself to. If you apologise for who you are (though of course you don't want to be arrogant either), or if you try and hide yourself, or if you project uncertainty of who you are, then I think you'll have way more difficulties with your customers.

Good luck,
D.

L.Jenkins · 04-07-2010 10:54pm

Thats alot that one will have to deal with during transition. The social aspect will be tough for me.

deirdre_dub · 04-07-2010 11:03pm

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Thats alot that one will have to deal with during transition. The social aspect will be tough for me.

It's tough for all of us. Go along to a support group is all I can say.

this is what the transition looks like when a boy becomes a girl

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