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this is what the transition looks like when a boy becomes a girl

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,156 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    links234 wrote: »


    That website is very difficult to navigate but I think the main point is this

    http://i.imgur.com/keetd.jpg

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 950 ✭✭✭cotwold


    Good for her, id never be able to tell she'd been a boy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Studies have shown that the sooner the transition happens with hormoane treatment the better the results.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭shoegirl


    Thats very true, a friend of mine transitioned at 17, you'd never know.

    On the other hand a much older friend transitioned in her late 50s after about 3 or 4 years of hormones - I was away for a while and expected after surgery etc she might actually look more feminine - unfortunately not.

    A lot of it can be down to things like dress style, hair, makeup etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    hormone replacement doesn't work as well if you've begun to age

    starting your transition younger is always better but there's plenty of people who have transitioned in their late 20's and 30's or even late 30's and still made an incredible transformation so don't ever think that your past the mark just because you didn't do it in your teens like some luck people

    hormone replacement can have incredible results and there are many beautiful women out there who were born boys

    SDMw8.jpg


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 125 ✭✭Frei


    He was a hot guy, now she is a hot girl!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Frei wrote: »
    He was a hot guy, now she is a hot girl!
    Wait this is hurting my brain.

    Shouldn't one say she was a hot guy? Because she is now a girl? But then saying she was a hot guy, dosen't make correct gramatical sense as she is feminine and guy is male.

    But then she is now a girl so when you are talking about her past maybe you should say she....

    *Head implodes*


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 950 ✭✭✭cotwold


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Shouldn't one say she was a hot guy?

    I think this is the most sensitive terms to use as she would've identified as female even before the transition.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    cotwold wrote: »
    I think this is the most sensitive terms to use as she would've identified as female even before the transition.
    But that's the thing. Although she would have identified as a female she wasn't female. She was male. I may call myself black but I'm still white, unless I had an operation to change that.

    It doesn't make grammatical to say she was a hot guy because she is feminine and guy is masculine.

    Don't get me wrong I'm not looking for the most sensitive term, I'm looking for the correct term. Of course I don't want to hurt feelings also so I'm choosing my words carefully.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Although she would have identified as a female she wasn't female. She was male.

    She would still have been female, just not having the outward characteristics of a female. Think of it this way, if a regular guy dressed up as a girl and looked pretty good, people would say "he makes a pretty hot girl" because he's still a guy but just presenting as a girl, so to say "she made a pretty hot guy" would be correct. And that's what transsexuals are generally, someone who is dressing up to conform to what society deems appropriate based on unfortunate sexual characteristics, until they find the courage to be themselves and present themselves in a way that reflects who they really are.

    Sshcr.jpg


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,156 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    But that's the thing. Although she would have identified as a female she wasn't female. She was male.
    Physically she was a male but emotionally and psychologically she was female

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    Physically she was a male but emotionally and psychologically she was female
    But grammatically she wasn't.

    I see where you are coming from and I am unsure of this myself. But I have formed the uncertain opinion that it is incorrect to refer to a a person as a she while she was still a he.

    It is hard for me to give an opinion I'm currently formulating. But i hope you get the drift of what I'm trying to say.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,156 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    But grammatically she wasn't.

    I see where you are coming from and I am unsure of this myself. But I have formed the uncertain opinion that it is incorrect to refer to a a person as a she while she was still a he.

    It is hard for me to give an opinion I'm currently formulating. But i hope you get the drift of what I'm trying to say.

    No, not really, I don't particularly see grammar or opinion as relevant. Psychologically and emotionally she was a woman while physically she was a man

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Freiheit


    While I understand some people are sensitive about terminology, does grammar really matter when the meaning is clear?:)

    Very good photos mind you!...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭hare05


    They really are amazing women. I've spoken to a number of those girls and they're just as feminine as anyone could be.

    By the way, the transitions above are astounding, but by no means the most drastic! I've seen one girl go from butch bodybuilder at over 200 pounds of muscle in her 30s to slightly lanky redhead with a great smile after 3 years HRT. Hormones do amazing things.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I'm hoping to undergo h.r.t. myself by Christmas....hopefuly my system will tolerate it and things will go well......they can apparently be demanding on some bodies and thus close monitoring is required


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Freiheit


    I'm curious as to whether many T people remain in their own neighbourhood or if they move


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Timbuk22 wrote: »
    I'm hoping to undergo h.r.t. myself by Christmas....hopefuly my system will tolerate it and things will go well......they can apparently be demanding on some bodies and thus close monitoring is required

    Best of luck with it!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    l_b56627eb44d2107ae5e5492cbfe41c06.jpgl_7629d70bfc2f48fb91ad5c8dae3daa02.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 950 ✭✭✭cotwold


    Cute guy ^


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Cute girl you mean!

    One of the most drastic and incredible transformations I've seen is that of Marissa Martinez, who went from looking like this:

    l_f5d94e47504f4335820f18fa479b3ade.jpg

    To this:

    l_d70ef0c76fba46628d8b7e056a6af4e4.jpg

    And she transitioned in her 30's so don't think you're screwed if you don't transition young.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Freiheit


    I assume that the last two people would have had facial feminisation and not just h.r.t.?. Very good results.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Freiheit wrote: »
    I assume that the last two people would have had facial feminisation and not just h.r.t.?. Very good results.

    Marissa Martinez did have FFS, and if you're interested have a look at her myspace page where she's got a lot of it documented in pictures.

    The before/after of the girl I posted above that also had FFS, but the "after" shot is actually before she had the surgery! She already looked an absolute astonishing beauty, and really didn't need it at all. This is her after surgery:

    l_6eba5b9a5cc8470e813983ba5e3be102.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 200 ✭✭LGiamani


    links234 wrote: »
    hormone replacement doesn't work as well if you've begun to age

    starting your transition younger is always better but there's plenty of people who have transitioned in their late 20's and 30's or even late 30's and still made an incredible transformation so don't ever think that your past the mark just because you didn't do it in your teens like some luck people

    hormone replacement can have incredible results and there are many beautiful women out there who were born boys

    SDMw8.jpg
    This guy is HOT and the girl is hot. No question about it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Freiheit


    Not obviously talking from experience the ideal situation is to have hormonal intervention pre-puberty, this is, controversialy in some cases now starting to happen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Freiheit wrote: »
    Not obviously talking from experience the ideal situation is to have hormonal intervention pre-puberty, this is, controversialy in some cases now starting to happen.

    It's wonderful for people who are sure of themselves that early on, but a lot of people don't come to terms with their feelings until much later. I think it's great that hormones can be prescribed for young transgender kids, and I remember reading about Kim Petras and being pretty jealous. But I would really like to make the point that it really doesn't matter if you've transitioned young or not, and if you have typically male characteristics, you can still make an incredible transformation. I hope I can bring down some people's doubts with these pictures, they're very inspiring for me. Take a look at the difference for this girl around the 6-month period, it's amazing:

    mgMW5.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Wow! That is a huge transformation. And the pictures detail it very well, in zero months, I don't know if he had started hormones at that time or not, his pose is quite masculine but as the moths go on you can tell his attitude has become more feminine due to the effects of hormones.

    I also like the period around 5-6 months as we can physically see his face and body become fatter as he losses muscle mass and puts on the soft fat associated with women.

    Although is he wearing contact lenses because his eyes change colour throughout the collection?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Although is he wearing contact lenses because his eyes change colour throughout the collection?

    Probably any difference in HER eye colour is due to lighting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Links234 wrote: »
    Probably any difference in HER eye colour is due to lighting.
    I was talking about the first couple of pictures when SHE was still a MALE.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 950 ✭✭✭cotwold


    I don't think grammar should be an area of contention in this thread, does it really matter that much?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    No more arguing about grammar on thread please. Back on topic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 426 ✭✭ddef


    Sorry in advance of sounding ignorant, but how did they grow sexual characteristics of women (or visa versa women to men). Are they injected with either loads of oestrogen or testosterone or what? also (again i apologise) if a man goes from male to female....what happens below the belt?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    ddef wrote: »
    Sorry in advance of sounding ignorant, but how did they grow sexual characteristics of women (or visa versa women to men). Are they injected with either loads of oestrogen or testosterone or what?

    Don't be sorry, and it doesn't sound ignorant, this is a very good question. What happens in hormone replacement therapy for a MtF is they are given an anti-androgen to block testosterone, then given estrogen either through pills, injections or transdermal patches, the method can vary. Then at a later stage they are often given progesterone which helps greatly with breast development. The effects we see in the pictures I've posted are the results of the hormones.

    The obvious changes being that your body shape changes due to body fat redistribution and loss of muscle mass, and you will grow breasts. The changes that we don't see can be as interesting as the ones we do. Breasts and nipples become extremely sensitive, skin becomes softer, head hair becomes thicker while body hair slows in growth and much becomes vellus hair, so overall hair becomes more female. The oils that the skin produce changes, and your body odor would change too so you'd start to smell female. I've also read that the angle of your pelvis can change, due to fat distribution and tendon changes. It can have an effect on your mood, feelings and sense too.

    Sounds amazing, doesn't it?
    ddef wrote: »
    also (again i apologise) if a man goes from male to female....what happens below the belt?

    This is also a very good question, and it gets very interesting. I assume you're not talking about surgery, but the effects of hormones on the genitalia? You'll lose a lot of erectile tissue in the penis so it will get smaller, the testes will eventually stop producing sperm, reduce in size and you will get dry orgasms as you will eventually stop ejaculating. I've also heard from a lot of trans girls that they have had to start sitting down to pee because the urine flow becomes more of a 'spray' as I'm told.

    What happens to how you feel down there is extremely interesting. There's a decrease in libido, but from accounts I've heard, most girls describe it as losing their male sex drive and it being replaced by a female sex drive. There's a huge difference in how orgasms feel as well, and that the hormones eventually give you female orgasms.

    So, hope that helps. ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    By the way, I see this thread has a lot of views, it must be very interesting. ;) I just wanted to say that if anyone else has any questions or is curious about this, really just go right ahead and ask.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,729 ✭✭✭Speak Now


    links234 wrote: »
    hormone replacement doesn't work as well if you've begun to age

    starting your transition younger is always better but there's plenty of people who have transitioned in their late 20's and 30's or even late 30's and still made an incredible transformation so don't ever think that your past the mark just because you didn't do it in your teens like some luck people

    hormone replacement can have incredible results and there are many beautiful women out there who were born boys

    SDMw8.jpg
    Links234 wrote: »
    By the way, I see this thread has a lot of views, it must be very interesting. ;) I just wanted to say that if anyone else has any questions or is curious about this, really just go right ahead and ask.

    Looking at herself i should think :)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Looking at herself i should think :)

    She is very beautiful. Though I think the reason the thread has so many views is probably out of curiosity, rather than an appreciation for these remarkable girls. But, here's another incredibly beautiful girl who made an astonishing transition:

    tGGK8.jpg

    LtQJ1.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45 hplp


    silly question though but when going through a sex change, do you have to take some sort of hormone question for the rest of your life or is it short term ( a number of years treatment)?

    h


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    hplp wrote: »
    silly question though but when going through a sex change, do you have to take some sort of hormone question for the rest of your life or is it short term ( a number of years treatment)?

    h

    this really isn't a silly question at all! :)

    What happens is that you take estrogen and some form of testosterone blocker for some years, then when you get those nasty testes removed with genital reassignment surgery or a bilateral orchiectomy, you're taken off the testosterone blockers and moved to a lower dose of estrogen. you'll be on estrogen the rest of your life from that point but the main hormone replacement treatment that you'll be on during transition will only be for a few years.

    I hope that clears things up and if you have any other questions to ask, please do! It's not silly at all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    IHyTa.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Freiheit


    Mentioned H.r.t. to a beautican today during beard removal and she asked me why I would want to put myself through it and potentially mess up my body.....that's what family will say too.....Mum knows I'm seeing the Endocrinologist but I'm not sure if she realises exactly what's involved. The consensus is though that in most cases it's well tolerated?. It is quite possible to be a healthy 'transwoman'?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Freiheit wrote: »
    Mentioned H.r.t. to a beautican today during beard removal and she asked me why I would want to put myself through it and potentially mess up my body.....that's what family will say too.....Mum knows I'm seeing the Endocrinologist but I'm not sure if she realises exactly what's involved. The consensus is though that in most cases it's well tolerated?. It is quite possible to be a healthy 'transwoman'?

    What does a beautician know about transgender HRT? Also, when she said you could potentially mess up your body, did she mean in terms of your health, or did she mean that becoming female is the messing up part? There's a tiny risk of blood clotting as far as I know, and depending on the anti androgens you're prescribed your potassium levels might spike (from spironolactone I think, though I'm pretty sure you won't get that), but this should all be monitored by your endocrinologist. The health risks are really minimum. There's an increased chance of cancer but no more than any genetic woman, and on the plus side you will have a reduced chance of heart disease. You can be just as healthy as any other girl out there, trans or not. ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Freiheit


    She meant h.r.t. in general, said a friend of her's is still suffering from I.V.F. 5 years on. Does she know much about Transgender hrt? undoubtbly not....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Freiheit wrote: »
    She meant h.r.t. in general, said a friend of her's is still suffering from I.V.F. 5 years on. Does she know much about Transgender hrt? undoubtbly not....

    Transgender HRT is very different to the kind of HRT that a menopausal woman might get (like they might give a woman a dose of testosterone to increase libido) so it's a totally different bag. She's probably talking about a completely different thing, and doesn't know the difference.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    gsC2A.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    wHIiY.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    Always found this issue interesting. It's great to see that it actually works out for a lot of people. In some cases you honestly wouldn't know the difference and at worst, you might think the woman wasn't exactly blessed with good looks. But you'd never think that she was once a man.

    I'd be curious to know how transsexuals feel about entering relationships. I assume that you eventually would want to tell your boyfriend the truth, when would you tell them though? Would you tell them before you came intimate? Does it cause a problem if the boyfriend wants to get intimate quickly but you are not ready yet to tell him the truth?

    I find it all truly fascinating. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    LZ5by5 wrote: »
    I'd be curious to know how transsexuals feel about entering relationships. I assume that you eventually would want to tell your boyfriend the truth, when would you tell them though? Would you tell them before you came intimate? Does it cause a problem if the boyfriend wants to get intimate quickly but you are not ready yet to tell him the truth?

    *Or girlfriend, not all MtF transsexuals are straight.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Glad you find this fascinating LZ5by5.

    I can't really answer how transsexuals feel about entering relationships because I'm pre-transition, and that makes things extra complicated, I doubt entering a relationship is possible for me because if someone found me attractive as I am now I'd be put off. Somewhere down the line after I started my transition I think I'd be pretty upfront about things to any girlfriend or possible girlfriend.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Freiheit


    I had a close relationship with a great girl, while I was open and honest about everything,on a level it didn't function, because I felt obliged to try to be the man and while love was true, there was a conflict which contributed,(wasn't solely responsible) for it's demise......I won't be attempting to be the man again..........honesty is important to give any relationship firm foundations,now I consider myself attracted to people, not genders. Every man and woman is unique.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭shoegirl


    I like the Kate Bornstein concept of gender outlaws. She moves concepts to outside traditional ideas of gender binaries the male/female binary.

    http://www.enlightennext.org/magazine/j16/kate.asp

    And here is great too, where she explains her ideas again:
    http://katebornstein.typepad.com/


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