VRT Megathread - ALL VRT DISCUSSION IN HERE - Read First Post

donegalboy

Mob rule at work on the VRT facebook page... threats against named Customs Officers and other nonsense... hope we can keep the debate clean on boards.ie

Cookie_Monster

donegalboy wrote: »

Mob rule at work on the VRT facebook page... threats against named Customs Officers and other nonsense... hope we can keep the debate clean on boards.ie

What the hell, threatening people?

That is just not on and really shows that crowd up as not willing to face up to reality. If you want to protest it fine, do it peacefully and democratically and maybe you get things changed. Act like a bunch of fools by threatening you and you will loose support and make yourselves look stupid. I for one hopes the gardai take these threats seriously and do something about the people responsible for them before someone does something really stupid :mad:

donegalboy

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

What the hell, threatening people?

That is just not on and really shows that crowd up as not willing to face up to reality. If you want to protest it fine, do it peacefully and democratically and maybe you get things changed. Act like a bunch of fools by threatening you and you will loose support and make yourselves look stupid. I for one hopes the gardai take these threats seriously and do something about the people responsible for them before someone does something really stupid :mad:

Today on facebook a man using the name John Lyttle posted: "Sean K****** is an arrogant little prick, typical of all bullies, he's a big man in front of women and his staff but really a coward. If I ever run into him I'll knock the **** into him"...

Derry Boyo said: "I hope their (Customs officials) children get bullied and taunted in school and told 'your daddy is a bully' and 'your daddy throws women and children out of their cars and leave them standing at the roadside".

Theanswers

The last Customs officer I spoke to told me VRT may not be illegal but is unjust.
So even they dont agree 100% with what they are doing, some are not as strick as others. However you know the saying: you may talk yourself out of trouble with a guard but not with a customs officer!!

ryanstewart

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

What the hell, threatening people?

That is just not on and really shows that crowd up as not willing to face up to reality. If you want to protest it fine, do it peacefully and democratically and maybe you get things changed. Act like a bunch of fools by threatening you and you will loose support and make yourselves look stupid. I for one hopes the gardai take these threats seriously and do something about the people responsible for them before someone does something really stupid :mad:

I've been deleting such posts as they appear, as they do not represent the majority of people on the page - just look at the standoff on wednesday as an example - non-violent, peaceful protest - this is what the majority of people on the facebook group, and those who support what we are doing in the general public, are all about - a few hotheads can give anybody a bad name - it works the same for customs too - they are claiming they are professional at all times - absolute rubbish - and this was clearly evident in how they have dealt with this area in the last few days.

Cookie_Monster

ryanstewart wrote: »

it works the same for customs too - they are claiming they are professional at all times - absolute rubbish - and this was clearly evident in how they have dealt with this area in the last few days.

very professionally. They could easily of gotten the gardai to pull her out of the car and arrest her for obstruction but they were decent about it and put up a lot of crap and stupidity from her. They were right to go back and seize it this next day, this was also done professionally from what I read of it.

MagicSean

Its disgraceful. Advocating violence against the children of customes officers. Requesting pickets of their family homes. You can delete the posts all you like but it shows the kind of people you have in the campaign.

-Chris-

donegalboy wrote: »

Mob rule at work on the VRT facebook page... threats against named Customs Officers and other nonsense... hope we can keep the debate clean on boards.ie

I can appreciate how hard it is for Ryan to keep his discussions clean if tempers are fraying, it's not easy.

On boards.ie's behalf though, I'll say that this kind of thing will not be tolerated and will be severely dealt with. I know our current community know where the line is drawn with regard to what's appropriate to say and what's inappropriate, but for any new posters, consider this a warning.

Vertakill

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

very professionally. They could easily of gotten the gardai to pull her out of the car and arrest her for obstruction but they were decent about it and put up a lot of crap and stupidity from her. They were right to go back and seize it this next day, this was also done professionally from what I read of it.

Completely agree with that.

I think this woman got away lightly in the end.

As has been said already, customs don't need a warrant and if you have the same NI reg'd SUV in your driveway, it's not like there's any danger that they might bust into the wrong house or anything.
So I don't see an issue with them seizing the car at her home.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

As Cookie_Monster mentioned, the Gardai could've been a helluva lot more heavy handed or just plain rude if they wanted to be without causing a scene.

I think VRT is ridiculous, but I also think an anti-VRT Facebook page, sitting in your car for 6 hours so it can't be seized, and sitting protesting on the ground in your driveway is also equally ridiculous.

donegalboy

ryanstewart wrote: »

I've been deleting such posts as they appear, as they do not represent the majority of people on the page - just look at the standoff on wednesday as an example - non-violent, peaceful protest - this is what the majority of people on the facebook group, and those who support what we are doing in the general public, are all about - a few hotheads can give anybody a bad name - it works the same for customs too - they are claiming they are professional at all times - absolute rubbish - and this was clearly evident in how they have dealt with this area in the last few days.

I see you have deleted some of your own nasty posts on facebook too!!
This is just another example of anti-establishment idealistic nonsense backed by Sinn Fein and trouble makers from Donegal and the north.
Until VRT is deemed illegal, you'll just have pay it like the rest of us.

ryanstewart

donegalboy wrote: »

I see you have deleted some of your own nasty posts on facebook too!!
This is just another example of anti-establishment idealistic nonsense backed by Sinn Fein and trouble makers from Donegal and the north.
Until VRT is deemed illegal, you'll just have pay it like the rest of us.

I don't back any party - this just happens to be a policy Sinn Fein share - this has cross party support locally - except from Fianna Fail - you would have heard labour councillor on the radio earlier voicing his disapproval of whats happening. I've received similar support from Fine Gael councillors. I've said it before - this affects everyone country wide - not just the "northerners" and as for your first comment - what a load of bull.

Guy:Incognito

ryanstewart wrote: »

I don't back any party.

Should you not either leave the FG group on facebook or join a few others too then?:)

Correct me if I'm wrong but I beleive FG were the ones to introduce the import duty on cars in the first place (the thing VRT was brought in to replace)

ryanstewart wrote: »

this has cross party support locally - except from Fianna Fail - you would have heard labour councillor on the radio earlier voicing his disapproval of whats happening. I've received similar support from Fine Gael councillors. I've said it before - this affects everyone country wide - not just the "northerners" and as for your first comment - what a load of bull.

It's very easy for parties in opposition to appease the masses. They dont have to do anything abou it. The proof is whether anything is done when they are in power. I dont think it's a big stretch to say that whoever forms the next government will go failry quiet on the VRT issue once in power.

FG could have gotten rid of VRT last time they were in office, but did'nt.

smash

ryanstewart wrote: »

I've said it before - this affects everyone country wide - not just the "northerners" and as for your first comment - what a load of bull.

But a blind eye has been cast up there until now, so it's only now that you're kicking up a fuss about it because it's actually affecting you!

kdevitt

While not being a huge fan of VRT (especially given the thousands I've paid out on it over the years), I'm even less of a fan of these rabid mob driven groups that are driven by misinformation.

Your VRT payment is a registration fee - you'll find the exact same fee exists in the UK. That said, in the case of the UK its a fixed £55 registration fee - ours just happens to be based on a % of the OMSP.

Can't admit to being happy about it - but if it does disappear it will be the likes of me who'll get even further stung with a hit to my pay packet.

Macca6

Question to ryanstewart:

Why is your Facebook page entitled 'VRT -IT'S ILLEGAL' when you yourself have posted the following:

" I'm afraid they are right about the fact that VRT is technically a "legal" tax - it's a national tax which was initially an excise duty, but was changed to a national tax in 1993 to evade the reach of the EU. The EU don't like it but, aren't getting involved - there may be other technicalities that they can be beaten on though - i haven't looked into this one. Legal or not though VRT is wrong and has to go."

I'm confused :-p

Are you going to change the page to "VRT - IT'S WRONG"???

I'm all for the abolision of VRT but to me this page seems to be purely about trying to justify you and other members breaking the law by driving your uk registered vehicles! I'm astounded it hasn't been pulled yet by facebook!

Bonito

Hey look, the group creator is here. Ninja.

mizzieme

Gophur wrote: »

It may be targeted more, because it has the highest level of tax evaders.

If you get VRT abolished, where do you propose the missing tax revenue would come from?

would the bankers not be a good option?;) if they abolished VRT everybody across the country would get a car for a fair price does that not appeal to everybody- this is what makes everybody so cross up north that Donegal and the border counties would not be the only ones to benefit. Think about what tesco's did when everybody from dublin and beyond headed north for their shopping and booze. Mr Tesco had to get with the game and BC and the government need to do the same or we all need to change our occupation status to 'banker' free living, its a truly a ' free state' for them.

ryanstewart

Macca6 wrote: »

Why is your Facebook page entitled 'VRT -IT'S ILLEGAL' when you yourself have posted the following:


Are you going to change the page to "VRT - IT'S WRONG"???

I've said much earlier in this thread that I've learned a lot about this over the past month and have admitted mistakes have been made, however the enforcement tactics used are illegal - the events surrounding the standoff and subsequent seizure of the vehicle owned by the lady in greencastle are clear evidence of this. They cautioned Ms Davern in front of around 70 people in the carpark, told her they were releasing the vehicle to hear on condition that she accepts that she can expect to appear in a court by notification of the revenue commissioners. She had, by the way, offered to pay the fine on the spot, but had no money on her. She had phoned a friend who offered to pay it, but couldn't get down in time. They tried to get customs to accept credit card details over the phone - they refused - only wanted cash.

I was present when they seized her vehicle the next day - they waited until the tv cameras left, as utv and bbc wanted interviews about what happened - as soon as they left about 16 customs officers landed in - on a woman and her daughter! - sean kelleher - head of customs up here - tried to say on radio today that they were met with obstruction, potential violence etc - rubbish - he also said he only had 5 officers there - i asked the question on the radio if he was seriously trying to say that he had 7 spare customs officers within 5 mins of greencastle who could assist (if you know the area - it's about half an hour from buncrana). He also stated at the time that if everyone co-operated that no criminal charged would be brought and then on national tv said if she paid her fine and VRT she could have the vehicle back - another lie - ms davern tried to pay it this morning and was refused - they are now talking about bringing criminal charges against her - I can't mention what also happened at the scene, as the gardai are looking into a charge against a customs officer. This may affect legal proceedings.

This woman is being victimised, harassed, and all she was doing on the day in question was her civic duty - attending court in buncrana on behalf of gardai - as a witness to a crime. We aren't all law breakers up here - but rather than sit back and take this, the time has come to speak out against an unfair tax. Pay your VRT if you want to - I'm not saying that you shouldn't, but even if you have, you don't have to like it

smash

ryanstewart wrote: »

however the enforcement tactics used are illegal

You have 24hours to register your car or they can legally take it off you. It's not fair, but it's not illegal to enforce that. What is illegal is obstruction of justice - like waiting 6 weeks and then sitting in your car for 6 hours because you were caught.

ardmacha

They tried to get customs to accept credit card details over the phone - they refused - only wanted cash.

If this is true, then it is unreasonable.

would the bankers not be a good option?

OK, perhaps you would like to explain in more detail exactly how you are going to get tax from "the bankers" equal to amount of VRT.

mizzieme

ardmacha wrote: »

If this is true, then it is unreasonable.



OK, perhaps you would like to explain in more detail exactly how you are going to get tax from "the bankers" equal to amount of VRT.

Well in all my working life I only received bonus payments for work done well or targets achieved, can we really be expected to make crazy payments to banks and not take bankers to account for huge bonuses they just did not earn. take a look at the amount of money this country has had to pay the banks if a portion of that was off set against the charges that everybody has to make on buying a car and a realistic amount charged like that is now charged on cars registered after the 1st of July 2008 it would be fair and honest. A car below July 1st 2008 in this country has no resale value and it was well known owner of car dealership that has stated this more than once get rid of the engine size tax and go by emission and if you get a big petrol drinker you pay the price if you buy a reasonable family car then its going to be reasonable but even though this may make sense the powers that be wont help the man on the street even though it was us who put them there [boy will we pay for that at the pearly gates]

Macca6

ryanstewart wrote: »

.all she was doing on the day in question was her civic duty - attending court in buncrana on behalf of gardai - as a witness to a crime.

Ah Ryan, come on now there's a few holes in that story

• She was committing a crime herself on the day in question - driving her UK registered jeep - as you say yourself - VRT is a legal tax -she broke the law - she wasn't randomly targeted for no reason!!!

• If she was sitting in the car park for 6 hours where was this person coming from that they hadn't time to get down?

• The number of customs officers originally was said to be 16, now you are saying there was 12! Frankly when (as you say) 70 people turned up the day before it makes sense that they would have extra staff on standby!

• It's reported that a truck was parked in the drive to block the removal of the jeep and Mrs Davern and another woman also lay down on the drive - that seems like obstruction to me!

I wonder how much of what you say is actually credible!

But you seem to be missing the real point here in that non payment of VRT is tax evasion! Now that you've learned your mistake and now realise that VRT is in fact a legal tax this renders your facebook campain redundant. So you all should just pay your VRT and customs won't have to waste any futher of my taxpayers money tackling the problem you are creating!

If you continue to break the law you have to be prepared for the consequences! I don't pay my VRT because I 'want' to - I pay it because I 'have' to! I don't get stopped by customs because I am not breaking the law!

laura.

I think this is disgusting. why are you all attacking Ryan for... there is 9665 other people on the group, surely he can't be blamed for other peoples opinions. Sure he has said himself that he does not condone any type of violence on these people so why???

Also, why are all of you actually going on the page, picking out the script that makes Ryan look as if he is contradicting himself and posting it on here??

I personally think he is doing fab work for Donegal (more than which any councillor has done for a long time), I am unfortunatly one of the law abiding citizens up here (who has 3 times paid VRT for cars all amounting to get me a damn good one), so it is not all of a sudden that we are making a stand. I for one am sick of paying road tax every year and then, for MY ROAD TAX to go and build high-ways and by-ways in dublin cork or wherever and yet the second we get out of a pothole up here you have to dodge the next one....How is that fair. I think if Donegal roads were in about the Dail, there would have been changes long ago....

bmw320d

Macca6 wrote: »

Question to ryanstewart:

Why is your Facebook page entitled 'VRT -IT'S ILLEGAL' when you yourself have posted the following:

" I'm afraid they are right about the fact that VRT is technically a "legal" tax - it's a national tax which was initially an excise duty, but was changed to a national tax in 1993 to evade the reach of the EU. The EU don't like it but, aren't getting involved - there may be other technicalities that they can be beaten on though - i haven't looked into this one. Legal or not though VRT is wrong and has to go."

I'm confused :-p

Are you going to change the page to "VRT - IT'S WRONG"???

I'm all for the abolision of VRT but to me this page seems to be purely about trying to justify you and other members breaking the law by driving your uk registered vehicles! I'm astounded it hasn't been pulled yet by facebook!

Question to mac6 why dont you stick your head up your ass and suck on your own colon you big prick

smash

laura. wrote: »

I personally think he is doing fab work for Donegal (more than which any councillor has done for a long time)

Ok here we go... he's doing noting for Donegal except pointing out how a lot of the population are either on the dole or don't pay VRT.

laura. wrote: »

I for one am sick of paying road tax every year and then, for MY ROAD TAX to go and build high-ways and by-ways in dublin cork or wherever and yet the second we get out of a pothole up here you have to dodge the next one....How is that fair. I think if Donegal roads were in about the Dail, there would have been changes long ago....

Road tax doesn't exist... it's motor tax, it has nothing to do with VRT and the takings don't go towards making the roads better! you'd be better off talking to your local council.

Gary ITR

bmw320d wrote: »

Question to mac6 why dont you stick your head up your ass and suck on your own colon you big prick

Banned


Right if this topic can't be discussed in a reasonable manner this thread will be locked.

laura.

steve06 wrote: »

Ok here we go... he's doing noting for Donegal except pointing out how a lot of the population are either on the dole or don't pay VRT.

FYI i'm not on the dole actually.. and as you see written above I have paid VRT


Road tax doesn't exist... it's motor tax, it has nothing to do with VRT and the takings don't go towards making the roads better! you'd be better off talking to your local council.

there is absolutly no need to be so contrary it's quite obvious you knew what I was on about and i know MOTOR TAX has nothing to do with VRT thanks for input anyway

furtzy

ryanstewart wrote: »

I've said much earlier in this thread that I've learned a lot about this over the past month and have admitted mistakes have been made, however the enforcement tactics used are illegal - the events surrounding the standoff and subsequent seizure of the vehicle owned by the lady in greencastle are clear evidence of this. They cautioned Ms Davern in front of around 70 people in the carpark, told her they were releasing the vehicle to hear on condition that she accepts that she can expect to appear in a court by notification of the revenue commissioners. She had, by the way, offered to pay the fine on the spot, but had no money on her. She had phoned a friend who offered to pay it, but couldn't get down in time. They tried to get customs to accept credit card details over the phone - they refused - only wanted cash.

I was present when they seized her vehicle the next day - they waited until the tv cameras left, as utv and bbc wanted interviews about what happened - as soon as they left about 16 customs officers landed in - on a woman and her daughter! - sean kelleher - head of customs up here - tried to say on radio today that they were met with obstruction, potential violence etc - rubbish - he also said he only had 5 officers there - i asked the question on the radio if he was seriously trying to say that he had 7 spare customs officers within 5 mins of greencastle who could assist (if you know the area - it's about half an hour from buncrana). He also stated at the time that if everyone co-operated that no criminal charged would be brought and then on national tv said if she paid her fine and VRT she could have the vehicle back - another lie - ms davern tried to pay it this morning and was refused - they are now talking about bringing criminal charges against her - I can't mention what also happened at the scene, as the gardai are looking into a charge against a customs officer. This may affect legal proceedings.

This woman is being victimised, harassed, and all she was doing on the day in question was her civic duty - attending court in buncrana on behalf of gardai - as a witness to a crime. We aren't all law breakers up here - but rather than sit back and take this, the time has come to speak out against an unfair tax. Pay your VRT if you want to - I'm not saying that you shouldn't, but even if you have, you don't have to like it

Look like it or not VRT is, as you've finally found out, a legal tax. The woman in question was breaking the law and the customs and gardai were within their rights to seize the vehicle. By all means continue your campaign but please state the facts on your facebook page and quit pandering to the bar seat lawyers who post on it.

Acouple of facts to post on your page maybe

VRT is a legal tax

Customs officials have the right to stop and seize non compliant vehicles under the finance Act

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1995/en/act/pub/0008/index.html

amendments re data to be provided from Irish Insurance companies listed here under 2010 Finance Act

http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/Publications/Finance%20Bill%202010/Bill2010.pdf

Customs officials have a statutory right of Entry i.e they can enter your property, not the private dwelling, but all driveways, garages, yards etc and seize and remove non compliant vehicles

http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/customs/enforcement/

Chapter 3 lists their powers in relation to various offences including VRT evasion

Maybe if you change the title to VRT an Unfair tax and state the facts you might get a bit more respect on here and perhaps a more constructive following

Cookie_Monster

ryanstewart wrote: »

This woman is being victimised, harassed, and all she was doing on the day in question was her civic duty - attending court in buncrana on behalf of gardai - as a witness to a crime. We aren't all law breakers up here - but rather than sit back and take this, the time has come to speak out against an unfair tax. Pay your VRT if you want to - I'm not saying that you shouldn't, but even if you have, you don't have to like it

She's being made an example of because she is wasting everyone's time and money, breaking the law and crying to the media for attention, not being victimised and harassed.

-mizzieme wrote:

if they abolished VRT everybody across the country would get a car for a fair price does that not appeal to everybody

If they abolished VRT it'd be made up in income tax as it's the easiest one to bring in. Everyone would suffer to the benefit of a few thousand motorists paying slightly less tax for a totally discretionary item. How is that fairer than VRT?

laura. wrote:

I think this is disgusting. why are you all attacking Ryan for... there is 9665 other people on the group, surely he can't be blamed for other peoples opinions. Sure he has said himself that he does not condone any type of violence on these people so why???

Because he is the guy who has setup this ridiculous site, giving a lot of those angry uniformed fools a place to voice their little hate campaign. Also because badly setup sites like that help spread mis-information and create & exaggerate problems that didn't exist beforehand

JHMEG

laura. wrote: »

I think this is disgusting. why are you all attacking Ryan for... there is 9665 other people on the group,

Possibly 9665 people with UK-reg cars desperately trying to avoid getting caught for VRT?