VRT Megathread - ALL VRT DISCUSSION IN HERE - Read First Post

Paparazzo

If they can't even get the colour of the flag right, what chance do they have of getting this taken seriously?

Guy:Incognito

Ryan, I'm just lifting a quote from you from the facebook page about us here on boards "small minded people with no idea what it's like up here"


So whats it like up in Donegal and why do you think your special with regard paying taxes like the rest of us?


Where was the vocal campaign for the last 20 odd years when the rest of the country was getting on with it and paying their taxes? Only now when the poor folk of Donegal are expected to start obeying the law do you all come out of the woodwork and suddenly cry foul. It'd be funny if it wasnt so sad.

How about an answer to my post above? (no 128)

ryanstewart

steve06 wrote: »

That doesn't make a difference to VRT take, because the cars that are being bought, have a lower VRT rates than they used to. So the VRT take will more than likely be down!

That's correct Steve

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2010-03-10.1640.0&s=vrt#g1642.0.r

Brian Lenihan's own words - as the scrappage scheme only provides for those on low emission vehicles. Removing VRT though will see a jump in car sales for all tax bands, however road tax would still be payable in the different bands, however by moving to a usage tax eventually, this would mean fairer motoring costs for everyone.

ryanstewart

Stekelly wrote: »

Ryan, I'm just lifting a quote from you from the facebook page about us here on boards "small minded people with no idea what it's like up here"


So whats it like up in Donegal and why do you think your special with regard paying taxes like the rest of us?


Where was the vocal campaign for the last 20 odd years when the rest of the country was getting on with it and paying their taxes? Only now when the poor folk of Donegal are expected to start obeying the law do you all come out of the woodwork and suddenly cry foul. It'd be funny if it wasnt so sad.

How about an answer to my post above? (no 128)

You're dead right, it's about time we started standing up for ourselves and it has taken too long. And by the way, after Dublin and Cork, Donegal has paid the highest amounts of VRT in the country. I'm not getting into a row county vs county, there's a lot more to it than not paying taxes, like no public transport, rural areas, higher unemployment than anywhere else in the country, average wage less than the rest of the country, having to travel across the country for basic health services - we could argue this all day- and NI reg cars are all over the country - not just in Donegal. It just happens that Donegal is targeted more than any other for these sting operations.

ryanstewart

Stekelly wrote: »

Receipt for a private sale?

Even for garage sales, are you saying there aren't garages that would give you a favourable receipt while your spending thousands with them?

Ryanstewart: just on point 1 about the Uk tax, are you honestly saying that people not living in the Uk, with no Uk address, driving cars that are not registered in the Uk anymore are
somehow renewing their tax each year in the Uk ? How are they going about this?

Your proposals seem conveniently geared towards the peope in border counties. Removing motor tax and vet while adding the difference to fuel increases the cost of fuel to everyone in the country bar the nicely situated people that can just nip over the border and fill up cheaply. How many petrol stations will close costing jobs and tax revenue here?

People who have an address in the north can do it fairly easily, and DVLA don't particularly mind people paying tax to them without having to chase it.

Petrol and diesel in the north is more expensive - this will lead to parity on that too. And I agree with you - anyone can get a receipt saying the car cost them less, but the argument is irrelevant as we know that it doesn't matter what you tell revenue it cost you - only what they say it is worth.

ardmacha

And by the way, after Dublin and Cork, Donegal has paid the highest amounts of VRT in the country.

If Donegal is so hard up, why are people buying so many expensive cars?

Guy:Incognito

ryanstewart wrote: »

People who have an address in the north can do it fairly easily, and DVLA don't particularly mind people paying tax to them without having to chase it.
.

When the cars are sold the permenat export section should be sent to the DVLA so it wouldnt be possible to pay the motor tax as the car effectivly doesnt exist anymore.

c

ryanstewart

Stekelly wrote: »

When the cars are sold the permenat export section should be sent to the DVLA so it wouldnt be possible to pay the motor tax as the car effectivly doesnt exist anymore.

c

That's only if it's been "exported" - if it's left in a northern address, this doesn't happen. Garages have been known to tax cars for people too. It's how Customs/Revenue enforce Social Welfare fraud too. There's quite a lot of that around the border areas, with people driving down from the north to claim better dole. Basically if they stop a NI car, it's catch 22 for the occupants - you either live in the north and shouldn't be collecting the dole here so it's fraud, or you do live here but own a north reg car, so you owe VRT.

I'm not advocating border hopping for the dole either!!

-Chris-

Stekelly wrote: »

Ryan, I'm just lifting a quote from you from the facebook page about us here on boards "small minded people with no idea what it's like up here"

Wow, well spotted!

http://www.facebook.com/posted.php?id=114939931865765&share_id=120218628005540&comments=1#s120218628005540

I'm properly surprised at this Ryan, and I'm quite annoyed too. I gave up my valuable time debating this with you in a mature way, as did most of the posters here.

This post is disrespectful of people who have given you the time and respect to actually assess and debate your ideas here. You should be ashamed.

I won't be "debating" with you any further. Your arguements are dubious and your integrity is now in question.

:mad:

JHMEG

ryanstewart wrote: »

And by the way, after Dublin and Cork, Donegal has paid the highest amounts of VRT in the country.

Why is that? Surely Limerick, Galway and Waterford would be next?

Guy:Incognito

JHMEG wrote: »

Why is that? Surely Limerick, Galway and Waterford would be next?

Especially considering the people of Donegal apparently only found out about VRT in the last couple of months.:)

smash

Stekelly wrote: »

Especially considering the people of Donegal apparently only found out about VRT in the last couple of months.:)

Don't forget....

ryanstewart wrote: »

higher unemployment than anywhere else in the country, average wage less than the rest of the country

TRYITNC

JHMEG wrote: »

The should start a facebook campaign to allow Donegal rejoin the United Kingdom. I don't think I'd miss them

I think they should do to dublin what theyre doing to greece

Gophur

ryanstewart wrote: »

............. It just happens that Donegal is targeted more than any other for these sting operations.

It may be targeted more, because it has the highest level of tax evaders.

If you get VRT abolished, where do you propose the missing tax revenue would come from?

TRYITNC

Gophur wrote: »

So, no doubt, after this campaign is successful, we will have the Donegal Brigade deciding

1. We want to buy our cars in the UK,
2. Draw the dole in the Republic
3. Buy our Groceries in the North
4. Pay our Council Tax in the Republic
5. Visit the Dentist in the North
6. Go to school in the Republic
7. Visit A&RE in the North

..........................etc., etc.,

So, cherry picking is the way forward

Do I detect jealousy in your post? who doesnt like a bargain? especially when moneys tight,try getting into asda in newry at the weekend,cant move for dublin people up stocking up on cheap alcohol and groceries,theyre easy to spot,wife pushing a trolley full of groceries hubby pushing one full of beer,all going to the uk coffers,fair play to them.Of course people living along the border are going to cherry pick from both sides you would too if you lived there,are you honestly saying that if you had 2 local pubs,1 charging €6 a pint a 1 charging €3 a pint that you would go to the more expensive one because it puts more tax the governments way?....get real!

TRYITNC

Stekelly wrote: »

I'd join it.:)

Im starting a facebook page calling for fat-headed over-opinionated rugby players from dublin to be made ilegal.....want to join that one too

KamiKazi

TRYITNC wrote: »

I think they should do to dublin what theyre doing to greece

Hi, welcome to Boards, hows the weather in Donegal? Watch out for those Customs officers though OK?

Eoin

TRYITNC wrote: »

Im starting a facebook page calling for fat-headed over-opinionated rugby players from dublin to be made ilegal.....want to join that one too

That's enough of that.

tobsey

TRYITNC wrote: »

Do I detect jealousy in your post? who doesnt like a bargain? especially when moneys tight,try getting into asda in newry at the weekend,cant move for dublin people up stocking up on cheap alcohol and groceries,theyre easy to spot,wife pushing a trolley full of groceries hubby pushing one full of beer,all going to the uk coffers,fair play to them.Of course people living along the border are going to cherry pick from both sides you would too if you lived there,are you honestly saying that if you had 2 local pubs,1 charging €6 a pint a 1 charging €3 a pint that you would go to the more expensive one because it puts more tax the governments way?....get real!

That's all fine and perfectly legal. Of course someone living in the border counties will take take advantage and border hop as necessary. However it is illegal to drive an imported car on the road in the republic until it has been registered. You are perfectly entitled to buy a car anywhere in the EU, however if you want to drive it on Irish roads you have to register it and pay VRT. Simple as.

ryanstewart

-Chris- wrote: »

Wow, well spotted!

http://www.facebook.com/posted.php?id=114939931865765&share_id=120218628005540&comments=1#s120218628005540

I'm properly surprised at this Ryan, and I'm quite annoyed too. I gave up my valuable time debating this with you in a mature way, as did most of the posters here.

This post is disrespectful of people who have given you the time and respect to actually assess and debate your ideas here. You should be ashamed.

I won't be "debating" with you any further. Your arguements are dubious and your integrity is now in question.

:mad:

What I mean by small minded Chris is that this is quickly turning into a Donegal v Dublin debate - it's much more than that and I've said that all along, and I appreciate the argument is coming from both sides now - have a look through the posts - I think people in Donegal do have a right to feel victimised by how this has been carried out though - apologies If I've offended anyone by that remark, there are constructive questions and points that have been made, but some are just passing digs at us!

Guy:Incognito

ryanstewart wrote: »

What I mean by small minded Chris is that this is quickly turning into a Donegal v Dublin debate - it's much more than that and I've said that all along, and I appreciate the argument is coming from both sides now - have a look through the posts - I think people in Donegal do have a right to feel victimised by how this has been carried out though - apologies If I've offended anyone by that remark, there are constructive questions and points that have been made, but some are just passing digs at us!

The only reason there's Donegal vs anyone is because the people of donegal were happy to sit back and go about their day breaking the law while the rest of the country was paying vrt, it's only now that it's your turn to jointhe rest of us that there's uroar in the north west.
Victimised? Give me a ****ing break. You've been having it easy, justbecause the law is now being applied to you equally doesn't mean your being victimised.

TRYITNC

KamiKazi wrote: »

Hi, welcome to Boards, hows the weather in Donegal? Watch out for those Customs officers though OK?

Thanks for your concern KamiKazi,the weather is lovely up here in gods country,as for customs "officers" thats no worry for me,I still hold an NI licence and the car is insured and taxed under my other address there

TRYITNC

Stekelly wrote: »

The only reason there's Donegal vs anyone is because the people of donegal were happy to sit back and go about their day breaking the law while the rest of the country was paying vrt, it's only now that it's your turn to jointhe rest of us that there's uroar in the north west.
Victimised? Give me a ****ing break. You've been having it easy, justbecause the law is now being applied to you equally doesn't mean your being victimised.

having it easy? what,paying tax for better infrastructure for dublin? step outside of the pale and into the real world

ryanstewart

Stekelly wrote: »

The only reason there's Donegal vs anyone is because the people of donegal were happy to sit back and go about their day breaking the law while the rest of the country was paying vrt, it's only now that it's your turn to jointhe rest of us that there's uroar in the north west.
Victimised? Give me a ****ing break. You've been having it easy, justbecause the law is now being applied to you equally doesn't mean your being victimised.

And here we go again...you think VRT is a "new" issue? It's been a thorn in everyone's side since it was brought in! It's a rip-off tax and it doesn't just affect Donegal...just now there's a bit of attention on the issue which happens to be coming from Donegal, you can sit back and point the finger? Is that why the Irish Drivers Association has 20000 members nationwide giving out about VRT. What are you so worried about with VRT being abolished? And if Donegal has the highest level of infringements, how is it that this county has the third highest VRT PAYMENTS in country, would this not suggest a high level of compliance? Whether you pay VRT or not, it's still an unfair tax.

thethedev

So just before this turns into another culchies V Jackeens debate.

VRT is not illegal. They are not charging you to bring the car in, it is a tax to REGISTER IT. Big difference. You can buy as many cars in the North as you like and never pay a penny on tax. But to drive it on a public road it has to be registered and thats what you're taxed for.

Thats why its legal. The free movement of goods is still taking place.

VRT is a good thing. It is helping to stop dealers in Ireland going bust. Particularly second hand dealers. Do we really need another few thousand unemployed?
If you abolish VRT, then people will just nip across the border for their next car taking money out of the state. Again, is that what we need right now?

I'm all for spending money in this country, but if it was cheaper to go up North to buy a car, then I would and so would most people no matter how patriotic they were, money talks.

I'm in agreement that the way it is charged is grossly unfair though. But I thought people didn't want the EU intervening in how this country is run? A set price for a vehicle of any age or specifications would be much more ideal. But it has to remain high enough so that buying in the UK still doesn't come cheaper.

ryanstewart

thethedev wrote: »

So just before this turns into another culchies V Jackeens debate.

VRT is not illegal. They are not charging you to bring the car in, it is a tax to REGISTER IT. Big difference. You can buy as many cars in the North as you like and never pay a penny on tax. But to drive it on a public road it has to be registered and thats what you're taxed for.

Thats why its legal. The free movement of goods is still taking place.

VRT is a good thing. It is helping to stop dealers in Ireland going bust. Particularly second hand dealers. Do we really need another few thousand unemployed?
If you abolish VRT, then people will just nip across the border for their next car taking money out of the state. Again, is that what we need right now?

I'm all for spending money in this country, but if it was cheaper to go up North to buy a car, then I would and so would most people no matter how patriotic they were, money talks.

I'm in agreement that the way it is charged is grossly unfair though. But I thought people didn't want the EU intervening in how this country is run? A set price for a vehicle of any age or specifications would be much more ideal. But it has to remain high enough so that buying in the UK still doesn't come cheaper.

Have a look at the proposal on the facebook discussion page. I think it's posted earlier on here too. You'll see why it's not a good thing for the motor industry - SIMI are calling for it to go, as are the AA, as are the Irish drivers association, and the industry itself commissioned the bacon report which concluded the same. All the links are on the page, and if it does go, it will stimulate the industry in the south, putting prices on par with the north.

R.O.R

ryanstewart wrote: »

Have a look at the proposal on the facebook discussion page. I think it's posted earlier on here too. You'll see why it's not a good thing for the motor industry - SIMI are calling for it to go, as are the AA, as are the Irish drivers association, and the industry itself commissioned the bacon report which concluded the same. All the links are on the page, and if it does go, it will stimulate further decimatethe industry in the south, putting prices on par with the north.

FYP :rolleyes:

Gophur

TRYITNC wrote: »

Do I detect jealousy in your post? .........

No.

TRYITNC wrote: »

............ you would too if you lived there..............

I do and I do!

TRYITNC wrote: »

.................get real!

The debate is about illegality, not about choice. I pay my taxes, loads of taxes, and I expect all my fellow residents to do the same. We should all be subject to the same rules.



Looking at mywheels.ie statistics for used vehicle imports shows a startling number of imports into Donegal, so wither a lot of people are law-abiding or a lot of people have been caught.

ryanstewart

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2005/09/25/story8163.asp

They have been saying it for years, yet you seem to know more?

ryanstewart

Gophur wrote: »

No.


The debate is about illegality, not about choice. I pay my taxes, loads of taxes, and I expect all my fellow residents to do the same. We should all be subject to the same rules.

Looking at mywheels.ie statistics for used vehicle imports shows a startling number of imports into Donegal, so wither a lot of people are law-abiding or a lot of people have been caught.

It's about an awful lot more than that...