Dublin Bus Network Review

Tourman

KC61 wrote: »

Any word on how the 63 is doing so far Alek? That route should not be experiencing any of the running time issues that other routes have had, but the drivers might be a bit dizzy in Carrickmines - they are serving "The Park" now aren't they?

Ah the 63 and the and the roundabout shuffle. 1st round the Ballyogan roundabout to Ballyogan return to same said roundabout up to Glenamuck roundabout into the park another roundabout here back out down to first roundabout again (3rd visit ) up to Glenamuck roundabout again. Theres direct for you. Any bets on someone taking the M 50 exist some time soon ? Journey times on this route is tight also. Driver on Friday evening running 10 mins 18.30 journey from Kilternan. A balance needs to be struck between frequency and productivity.

KD345

joegriffinjnr wrote: »

Off to the Sandyford Roundabout with yea! Regarding the 4, this does not loop Ikea. It continues on the Ballymun Rd. The 13/A do the loop, well most of them anyway!

Thanks for the clarification. The Network Direct customer information sheet states route 4 has been extended to IKEA but there is no mention of IKEA on the timetable.

Pigwidgeon

stop wrote: »

Can someone confirm for me where exactly the northbound 84 is terminating?

I haven't seen any around the main bus terminus inside Belfield. (10/3/17 stops)

Is it just terminating at the flyover? Or continuing to Donnybrook garage and terminating there?

Stops at the 10 bus stop. Did this morning anyway

joegriffinjnr

Any bets on someone taking the M 50 exist some time soon ?

As Sicky has said this has happened already! Have to say though when I Was training up that way a couple of months back, I done the exact same thing! The whole park thing is crazy, they should allow a right turn from the park to Glenamuck Rd and right turn entering the park for buses only, cut a bit of that island out of the way there Mrs will yea!

Cookie_Monster

ah seriously, how can you end up on the M50. There's a huge blue sign saying M50 Northbound at the exit. the one before it snakes off and the one after is a bridge...

It actually worries me that there are bus drivers who can make such a mistake, clearly not paying any attention what-so-ever to the road or signage for that to happen

Flukey

Monday morning, Week 2 of Network They Wrecked.
I arrived at my bus stop. There was a small amount of waiting passengers and soon a bus came that I got on and I thought that maybe it is beginning to work. I should have known better...

Tuesday morning.
A big crowd at the stop. A load of full buses passed by. One stopped and said 2 passengers could get on. A third, a woman who seemed particularly desperate to get a bus, was told told to get off. Fair enough, but what was annoying about this was that on the bus, talking to the driver was another Dublin Bus driver. He could have easily got off, let that passenger on and waited on another bus. Anyway, a good amount of buses passed, at the very least 6 or 7, maybe up to 10, before one came that had room for most of the waiting passengers. So after Monday's slight ray of hope, normal (bad) service had resumed.

Tourman

.

The bus driver has to get to work as well. May be he was the driver of the bus that finally cleared the stop.

Any way any sign DB management admit its a disaster and go back to the time table of 2 weeks ago with something that worked and have a re-think on the way forward. No shame in an error but there is from bloody mindedness

thomasj

anyone hearing any dates for the blanch and Lucan changes. There are rumours of the 17th!

Tourman

thomasj wrote: »

anyone hearing any dates for the blanch and Lucan changes. There are rumours of the 17th!

Surely it would be an act of gross negligence to impose more changes on the traveling public before the failures of the Stillorgan Road debacle have bee identified.

Cookie_Monster

Tourman wrote: »

Surely it would be an act of gross negligence to impose more changes on the traveling public before the failures of the Stillorgan Road debacle have bee identified.

+1

identified AND rectified

AlekSmart

Surely it would be an act of gross negligence to impose more changes on the traveling public before the failures of the Stillorgan Road debacle have bee identified.

Tourman,them`s strong word there pardner.....:rolleyes:

I would have little doubt but that in certain circles the South Dublin/North Wicklow re-alignments of the past 10 days are viewed as quite successful,with only some fine-tuning to be done.

The older the fiddle-the finer the tune and we have some very old fiddlers indeed who can rustle up a tune from a piece of paper and a comb.

However,as of yet we still have little indication that the ND project could ,in fact,represent a great advance for DB and it`s passengers.

That IMO can only occur if we revert to an intense study of the basics..ie: The Pole with a Bus sign on top and a list of appropriate routes stopping there...this pole and list to be in place BEFORE the service actually starts.....Clarity is everything in Public Transport.

I would not accept Laminated A4 sheets attached with cable-ties hanging limply from the top of a pole as satisfying the requirements of good Public Information practice or indeed DB`s own Customer Charter.

If,and I stress IF,major infrastructural changes in any Public Transport field are to be successfully implimented then the body concerned must firstly ensure that ALL operational staff are fully informed and understanding of those changes...(last minute contradictory or ambiguious memo`s won`t suffice)

Staff who are thusly empowered represent a major positive influence in further propogating the message to the customer (There...I WAS Listening at all them oul motivation yokes...it only looked as if I were asleep ).

Drivers on any re-aligned or new route must as a minimum requirement actually know that route...sounds basic common sense...but not always a given I`m afraid.

The availability of DVD and Forward Facing CCTV material to enhance Driver Knowledge was tried some time ago and in my opinion represented a great opportunity,especially if combined with the wide screen hi-definition mode in Garages.

Why was this initiative allowed to fall into disrepair when it could have been a core application in driver familiarization routine ?

A major problem with Phase 1,IMO,was a sense of divorce amongst platform-staff as to what was going on.
Worse still,that continued all the way up into the Supervision and Control area`s occasionally described as Operations Support.

Currently,for example,the concept of Central Control appears to be on hold,replaced instead by anything up to four seperate controllers and assorted strategically placed Chief Inspectors in an attempt to impose order onto what,by times, is perliously close to chaos.

just to restate my own opinion...I believe the core elements of Network Direct to be essentially positive and to offer substantial improvements to all IF the ND plan is approached in a more focused manner.

Last weeks attempt has not worked and it has to be a case of Rewind and start again ?

Opinions anybody ?

ardmacha

The Pole with a Bus sign on top and a list of appropriate routes stopping there...this pole and list to be in place BEFORE the service actually starts.....Clarity is everything in Public Transport.

A stop near me gives me details of the service offered by the 46B, and you all said it was gone!!

AlekSmart

A stop near me gives me details of the service offered by the 46B, and you all said it was gone!!

Look deep into my eyes.....MMMmmmmmmm,you are feeling Sleepy...so Sleeeepy...sleeeeeepyyyyyy....ZZzzzzzz.....when I click my fingers you will awake and find the 46B GONE !!! PFfffT whoooosh ! click !

Tourman

I completely agree with you Mr smart concerning the desirability of a correctly implemented route re alignment with the basic prerequisites you mention,such as timely information for the general public and advanced training on new routes for the staff who have to drive and regulate them.

I suppose DB management are aware of the virtuous circle well trained staff give proper service which leads to contented customers that leads to more usage of the service which gives higher income which enables finance for staff training that leads to contented customers.......... They are of course aware of the concept of the roundabout system see post on the route with its never ending tour of roundabouts 63.

There is also the point of back pedaling from the concept of the direct service with the tinkering with the 84, 63, 47, all meandering into all sorts of nooks and carnies.

Management only have to look at the response to the 145 when it originally went to the big smoke. Drivers refused to go via Stillorgan and it became a roaring success.

devnull

Still no 4 Timetable at O'Connell Street Southbound as of last night nothing there at all. 46C still going around though!

Just missed a double decker on the 4 this morning which I think was full anyway as did not seem to stop, then a 7 went past full, got a bendy bus a few moments later, seems to be a fair few of them around, although the inspector which was around spent a couple of minutes bitching that the problems on the route were down to the fact it is bendy bus operated as they are slow and hard to move.

It's tragic when inspectors are so far detached from reality. There was well over 100 people on my bus today I would say if that was a double decker it would have been 80 max and even more people than already waiting at the stop seeing buses going past full. The fact is because of the timetable cuts on that route in the morning, the greater capacity of those artics has been invaluable the last week or two.

What is management's response to what has happened so far? The general feeling I have got is that is that apart from the drivers, the staff seem to be publicly at least, pretty satisfied with things?

InTheQ

Wow - 11 days in and still all that is on the bus shelter at the Stillorgan Shopping Centre is a tiny illegible hand written note to inform people that the 46A no longer stops there.

The sign looks more like one of those signs a cheeky so-in-so sticks up everywhere offering grinds.

I would conceder this a major stop along the route - Do the Network Direct team have that much contempt for the fare paying customers?

(I am not complaining that the bus no longer goes this way - it's the not informing people waiting for a bus that will never come)

Tourman

InTheQ wrote: »

Wow - 11 days in and still all that is on the bus shelter at the Stillorgan Shopping Centre is a tiny illegible hand written note to inform people that the 46A no longer stops there.

The sign looks more like one of those signs a cheeky so-in-so sticks up everywhere offering grinds.

I would conceder this a major stop along the route - Do the Network Direct team have that much contempt for the fare paying customers?

(I am not complaining that the bus no longer goes this way - it's the not informing people waiting for a bus that will never come)

I imagine thats par for the course. At the moment they have Bigger problems

Cookie_Monster

it would take one member of staff a day to run along all the bus stop on the N11 corridor and make sure they are all correct. Its something that could be done very easily and make a noticeable difference to how customers are feeling. At least having correct info would appease them slightly

Flukey

If Dublin Bus Management were to read through this thread, particularly the posts since the introduction of Network They Wrecked, they would see the problems and many of the solutions. Some involve restoring some of the removed services and restoring services to some of the areas that now have none. They can find a happy medium where they can make some improvements to the Stillorgan Road services, but without disenfranchising a lot of their passengers.

KD345

It really is baffling. Dublin Bus announced their plans to the public months ago. This was supposed to launch in July but was delayed until now, yet even with the extra time, they have not managed to correctly display a basic notice or timetable on major stops. I'm assuming there is somebody employed in Dublin Bus who's job it is to look after bus stops and customer information. If this was my employer, they would have staff working overtime making sure the correct information was being presented to customers. It would take about 5 hours on a quiet Sunday morning to cover all the stops. By its own admission, Network Direct is a major project, one of the most important in the history of the company. It is incredible that the first phase was launched with so many problems.

Devnull reports there is no 4 timetable on O'Connell Street, yet there is a new timetable on O'Connell Bridge. How can it be so hit and miss? There is a nice printed display on Westmoreland Street advising passengers to go to Aston Quay for the 145, yet a major stop at Stillorgan Shopping Centre has a basic handwritten piece of paper. As far as we know, Belfield has no information for the 84.

If anyone in charge at Dublin Bus happens to be reading this thread, they need to investigate why there is such a communication problem at this first phase, and put a hold on Lucan and Blanchardstown until these issues are addressed and passengers are guaranteed basic information at stops.

InTheQ

My point is that this busy stop has now practically become defunct as it is now only serviced by a rare 84 and an 47 mystery tour (ok there may be other busses but they are also few and far between)

Given that the 46A timetable on the beloved website does state 7-8 minutes and not the actual times … and being optimistic that the last week and a bit was teething problems. The vast majority of people will just turn up to the bus stop and wait instead of timing a 46A – so an actual timetable at the stops isn’t of huge importance (except for the really early and late busses)

However going out of their way to do as little as is humanly possible to inform the customers at the stops that are no longer serviced by the 46A is just ignorant. If I saw this in a Dilbert cartoon I’d think is was over the top stupidity.

Signs in their A1 panel that shows network info could have been put up weeks ago

devnull

Somewhat strangely, the stops on Dorset street inbound to the city centre, now also have a network direct poster in their bus shelter display, detailing all of the changes, with all of the timetables removed to make way for this poster. The strange thing is, however, that no routes that go down this area are affected by the recent changes, so the information places here is of no interest to the people actually waiting at these stops!

Also almost every stop with a shelter from Mount Street, to at least the Merrion Shopping centre where tescos is, has just a network direct poster in the display, with no actual timetables.

On a somewhat different note, I saw a 47 at college green today with Donnybrook Church on the display with pax getting on!, a couple of questions.

1) I thought the 47 started from Pearse Street
2) Since when did it terminate in Donnybrook?

KD345

devnull wrote: »

.

On a somewhat different note, I saw a 47 at college green today with Donnybrook Church on the display with pax getting on!, a couple of questions.

1) I thought the 47 started from Pearse Street
2) Since when did it terminate in Donnybrook?

Up until last weekend, the 47 ran from Bellarmine to Donnybrook Church. What you saw was probably a bus with no updated display.

xper

AlekSmart wrote: »

Quite an interesting point here KD345,the 84 is supposed to loop around Cherrywood using the route 7 stops

The couple I have been on so far have done this. To my utter shock, I've even seen a passenger disembark at Cherrywood. I think it caught the driver by surprise too.

While this 'quick nip' around the roundabout was exactly the route I expected DB to implement, such were my low expectations. it does illustrate the complete and utter lack of understanding of intergrated transport by this city's public transport operators. A bus service which has been deliberately introduced to link with another transport mode doesn't actually come within 300 m of the Luas stop. You can see both the Bride's Glen and Cherrywood stops from the roundabout, you're left about equidistant between them, on the wrong side of a large, busy roundabout and its not clear how you actually proceed to get to either.

I recognise that the LUAS is still a couple of weeks from operation and some signage may appear to partly improve the situation (from Veola, not DB, I dare say!) but it is still way short of what would be in place in many other cities with a half decent transport systems, i.e., a bus bay immediately adjacent to the bloody tram stop.

For this, more than DB are to blame.

BTW, on a weekend southbound 84 trip when no passenger used either stop in Cherrywood, it took 4m42s to negoiate the little diversion (from entering junction on east side of the flyover to leaving same at the end of the loop).

However interestingly,somewhat late in the day somebody realized that by using this innovative mould-breaking approach the very busy Inbound Stop and Shelter under the Flyover was comprehensively avoided.

That's a particularly nice touch alright. That stop's positioning always puzzled me. There was ample room north of the junction to have placed a the stop, including its unique, little seperating island if they so wished that would serve buses arriving northbound on the N11 and buses exiting Cherrywood. Instead the late 46C and now the 84 sail past behind a stop that forces passengers to cross one of the slip roads to reach it.
The nice touch on the nice touch is that someone went to the trouble of designing an elaborate stop layout within the junction and made a complete pig's ear of the stop exit so that bus drivers have be very careful to not stray into the traffic lane on their right when exiting or passing through (and that's after some remedial work was carried out). I can't wait to see the tri-axle's that are now on the 145 route negotiating that in heavy traffic.

KC61

devnull wrote: »

Somewhat strangely, the stops on Dorset street inbound to the city centre, now also have a network direct poster in their bus shelter display, detailing all of the changes, with all of the timetables removed to make way for this poster. The strange thing is, however, that no routes that go down this area are affected by the recent changes, so the information places here is of no interest to the people actually waiting at these stops!

746 went along Dorset Street.

trellheim

any updates on the No.4 and why the frequency has gone so bad ?

thomasj

The blanchardstown map has been updated again! The only difference I can see is according to the map:

- a note to state the 37 extension to blanchardstown centre will be at a later date

- the 76 to the square with 76a/b to balrothery/fethercairn

Bazzer2

Do I read the new Blanch map right, showing the 39A NOT specifically serving Baggot Street?

KC61

Bazzer2 wrote: »

Do I read the new Blanch map right, showing the 39A NOT specifically serving Baggot Street?

It will be serving Baggot Street - just not terminating there.

ardmacha

Look deep into my eyes.....MMMmmmmmmm,you are feeling Sleepy...so Sleeeepy...sleeeeeepyyyyyy....ZZzzzzzz.....when I click my fingers you will awake and find the 46B GONE

I support the Continuity 46B!