News and views on Greystones harbour and marina [SEE MODERATOR WARNING POST 1187]

LEIN

Guys, it is essential to link to the source of any quotes used on this thread.

Thanks,

DD

Cheeky Chops

"Cllr Ciarán Hayden further commented “once again we are witnessing the typical Jesuitical language from this group. This comment is inaccurate and misleading but something I have come to expect from a group made up of people that lead a very bitter and divisive campaign in our community for a period of ten years or more.”"

To Cllr Hayden. Hate speech is illegal in most EU countries. Whether you agree or not with Jesuism, to use this in this in an argument is illegal.

http://www.greystonesguide.ie/clarification-required/

Cheeky Chops

"Cllr Kathleen Kelleher said on reading the misleading statement “this press release is factually incorrect and endorses the support of the Council which is not the case."

I would like Cllr Kelleher to explain how democracy works? The majority of the council supported the GUBUH.

danjo

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

"

To Cllr Hayden. Hate speech is illegal in most EU countries. Whether you agree or not with Jesuism, to use this in this in an argument is illegal.

http://www.greystonesguide.ie/clarification-required/

I believe you mean Jesuitism which has very different connotations. LINK

legrand

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Greystones Harbour 2nd April 2012 @ 11am by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

Further 'enhancments' I presume - next they will introduce chains with further warning signs not to use as a swing. God awful:mad:

Blanchflower

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

"Cllr Ciarán Hayden further commented “once again we are witnessing the typical Jesuitical language from this group. This comment is inaccurate and misleading but something I have come to expect from a group made up of people that lead a very bitter and divisive campaign in our community for a period of ten years or more.”"

To Cllr Hayden. Hate speech is illegal in most EU countries. Whether you agree or not with Jesuism, to use this in this in an argument is illegal.

http://www.greystonesguide.ie/clarification-required/

I am totally shocked and disappointed by the bitter and intemperate language used by Councillor Hayden and Councillor Kelleher in this article. Fianna Fail headquarters will hear about this outrage.

pixbyjohn

2 Definitions of the word Jesuitical


Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia
Designing; crafty; politic; insinuating: an opprobrious term.

WordNet 3.0
adj. having qualities characteristic of Jesuits or Jesuitism

Blanchflower

pixbyjohn wrote: »

2 Definitions of the word Jesuitical


Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia
Designing; crafty; politic; insinuating: an opprobrious term.

WordNet 3.0
adj. having qualities characteristic of Jesuits or Jesuitism

Opprobrious.....http://www.thefreedictionary.com/opprobrious

1. Expressing contemptuous reproach; scornful or abusive: opprobrious epithets.
2. Bringing disgrace; shameful or infamous: opprobrious conduct.

And the Fianna Fail councillors use this abrasive and inflammatory lanugaue just because they lost a vote at a Greystones Town Council meeting last week.

Alister Ginger

This entire fiasco can be reduced to one of the most common and ancient Chinese proverbs "my enimies enemy must be my friend"

And is has come across loud and clear with the recent press releases form Mitchel Hayden and Kelleher.


During the initial planning of the development, there was a strong local objection and the three separate entities ( Wicklow County Council, Greytones Town Council and Sispar) became united with one common enemy which was the GPDA.


Quirke, Hayden/Mitchell & Patrick Keogh of Sispar, stood side by side and drove the project home in spite of the 6000 objectors supporting the GPDA and be came forever united as brothers in arms.


After this trendous sense of accomplishment and achievement, the project commenced with massive expectation where the local councillors proceeded at every opportunity to take the credit for this mighty project, right up until it began to fail due to the economic down fall in Ireland.


This was a massive blow to the two councillors and when Sispar decided to change the development in an attempt to make it more viable, brother Quirke immediately gave planning permission to Sispar supported by brothers Hayden and Mitchell.


What They brothers did not like was a question asked to an bord pleannala as to whether Wicklow could grant this permission, and an bord said they they couLd not?


Brothers Mitchel and Hayden seeing their comrades in trouble, publically attacked those who raised the question to an bord P partly out of frustration that their life long political effort was about to be scuppered by the failing Irish economy and their dreams shattered and partly because the olde enemy could be blamed.


When a local group of concerned citizens came to gather looking for an interim solution to an unavoidable problem to gain back an amenity for the people of greystones, they were met with the venom of the fighting brothers Mitchell and Hayden protecting their brothers Keogh and Quirke.


What has happened here is simple. Hayden and Mitchell are blinded by the failure of the project and stand side by side their comrades Sispar And Quirke and have completely forgotten what their civic duty actually is. Because the construction is to stop for the next 20 years, they are desperately trying to blame their old enemy. I'm not sure what Kelleher is doing, but safe to say she will do as she is told by Hayden.


Quirke has also lost his way, for pretty much the same reason, Sheehy said the project was the only game in town, but alas that game appears to be suspended if not over. Quirke as a senior civil servant needs to understand this, so too does the other public reps.




You all need to stop this nonsense and remember your responsibility and obligations, you are all behaving like spoilt children.


That what I think anyway, and it's not the first time it's happened, remember England and France were sworn enemies since the beginning of time unitil they found a common enemy in Hitler. I'm not saying that the brothers become enemies, I'm saying remember your responsibility and your civic duty. Otherwise people will think that there is corruption going on, and I don't think there is, but what do I know?

F3

Interesting analogy AG, so what you are saying is that the Councilors that oppose GUBOH are simply doing so because they are looking to blame someone for the failings of the Irish economy and who better than the old enemy the GPDA. Thats socially and politically naive to say the least. I'll go one step further and assume they define this untenable position as the 'Partnership' 'P' in the PPP. now thats naive!!!!

Cheeky Chops

danjo wrote: »

I believe you mean Jesuitism which has very different connotations. LINK

My mistake. Thank you for the correction. The language is still appalling.

*just to add, I am one member of Boards.ie so do not represent the views of the majority of the membership of Boards.ie. My views are personal and shall be reflected in a Press Release to be sent out to the media today - not as a member of the general public but as a representative of Boards.ie.

*this is meant to demonstrate how farcical these personal press releases are coming from an elected representative.

F3

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

My mistake. Thank you for the correction. The language is still appalling.

*just to add, I am one member of Boards.ie so do not represent the views of the majority of the membership of Boards.ie. My views are personal and shall be reflected in a Press Release to be sent out to the media today - not as a member of the general public but as a representative of Boards.ie.

*this is meant to demonstrate how farcical these personal press releases are coming from an elected representative.

Where can we see this press release CC?

Cheeky Chops

F3 I was joking. I merely meant to ridicule the sending out of personal statements dressed up as press releases.

F3

LOL, I thought I was going to find out who you really are !!!
I agree with your sentiments, and Alistir G also makes an interesting view on the matters generally. I'm not diluting the serious nature of the the inaccurate and defamatory statements being made, but the reality could be that they simply know no better which is socially and politically niave to say the least. It doesn't excuse it but it helps understand why anger and entrenchment.

Cookie_Monster

legrand wrote: »

Further 'enhancments' I presume - next they will introduce chains with further warning signs not to use as a swing. God awful:mad:

old style heavy black pillars & chains like those in Dun Laoghaire would actually look far far better there.

danjo

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

old style heavy black pillars & chains like those in Dun Laoghaire would actually look far far better there.

Yes and add a few balls and it will really portray the Guantanamo image.

pixbyjohn

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

old style heavy black pillars & chains like those in Dun Laoghaire would actually look far far better there.

I agree

LifeBeginsAt40

pixbyjohn wrote: »

I agree

Would certainly look more 'harbour' like.

Fiachra2

You should be down there this evening John. The sea is coming over the walls fairly spectacularly. Unfortunatley it is low tide and will be dark by high tide

Blanchflower

Fiachra2 wrote: »

You should be down there this evening John. The sea is coming over the walls fairly spectacularly. Unfortunatley it is low tide and will be dark by high tide

Severe wave overtopping at low tide!

Tonight should be interesting.

Charlie-Bravo

those houses on Cliff Road would have great entertainment if this is the case

Cheeky Chops

I put in an information request with a FF contact I have as to whether Press Releases by councillors with the party whip have to sign off on official PR by either their political party or the town council they are a member of.

Or, whether as elected representatives by us the people, they are allowed free reign in what they say in official PR. To clarify, I want to know if personal opinion is allowed under the remit of election to office.

This is related to yet another PR released today.

http://www.greystonesguide.ie/works-continue-at-greystones-harbour/

MyPerfectCousin

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

I put in an information request with a FF contact I have as to whether Press Releases by councillors with the party whip have to sign off on official PR by either their political party or the town council they are a member of.

Or, whether as elected representatives by us the people, they are allowed free reign in what they say in official PR. To clarify, I want to know if personal opinion is allowed under the remit of election to office.

This is related to yet another PR released today.

http://www.greystonesguide.ie/works-continue-at-greystones-harbour/

It's really annoying. I don't recall the public representatives in any other local constituency I've lived in churning out so much "news" and opinion, as if they were their own newspaper. And the Greystones Guide posts all of it as if it were news. You don't find out until the end of the page that the "story" was written/submitted by a politician.

Pat-ience

I am not an apologist for any local councillor
but I find the personal remarks
made during this dispute unpleasant.
There seems to be no end to this so
I have left the Facebook group (GUBOH) in protest.

F3

Pat-ience wrote: »

I am not an apologist for any local councillor
but I find the personal remarks
made during this dispute unpleasant.
There seems to be no end to this so
I have left the Facebook group (GUBOH) in protest.

I've not seen you blog here before and your views are most welcome, but why do you coin the phrase 'dispute' ?

There are GUBOH members who have been quite forthright in their views, but they do so out of frustration at the neglect the entire town council bar 1 or 2 on this harbour issue, and the majority have allowed the on slaught
of mindless nonsense from the minority and have stood by doing nothing?

Can you tell me what the dispute is? Who are the parties ? Where are the differences in opinion?

MyPerfectCousin

I'll just clarify that I find ALL the personal press releases from ALL the politicians about ANY topic -- not just the harbour -- to be annoying because there are so many of them, and because they expect to be treated as "news" and are treated as "news" by local websites and often the local newspapers.

Pat-ience

I used the word 'dispute' because I was tired and in a hurry
But would you not agree that there is an ongoing
'war of words' ?
between a local councillor
and some very vocal supporters of GUBOH

I am a supporter of GUBOH but find the 'flak'
is clouding the issue.
Those responding so vehemently to the councillor
are doing the group as a whole no favours.

I joined the Facebook page to stayed informed
but my newsfeed became full of
negative comments and retaliations.
I turned my newsfeed off
but when I went to check on any updates
there seemed to be no end to the negativity.
So I have left the group.

I think all the negativity dilutes the energy of the group
and feel it alienates people in the middle ground, like myself.

Fiachra2

A few points are worth making here.

The Greystones guide provides a very useful service because it publishes all the material sent to it. This is not the case with newspapers who can pick and choose what they publish and do not always do so impartially.

I agree that the Guide facility is being "abused" by some local councillors to issue repetitive confrontational statements. I would argue that this is not the case with GUBOH. We issue press releases only when there is some development to be reported. Of course there will be a "slant" to these releases. Thats politics. However we avoid engaging in any "slagging matches" Our last press release did make reference to the comments by other councillors. This was only because we felt their attitude was damaging to the debate and to the community as a whole. We do not intend to get dragged down to that level of personal abuse.

What happens here or on facebook is an altogther different matter. GUBOH does not moderate the facebook group nor does it impose a "whip" on its supporters . They are free to express their opinions as they wish. Thats what people like to do. Personally I do not agree with some of the comments made by our members and I feel that a few of them are pointless and would agree that they are a waste of energy. But thats people and without them we dont have supporters or a campaign. I regret that some people find the debate so tedious they have to leave. Trust me the last 16 years has been pretty tedious for some of us. I would urge those people to stick with it. The cause is worth a bit of effort on your part.

F3

F3 wrote: »

I've not seen you blog here before and your views are most welcome, but why do you coin the phrase 'dispute' ?

There are GUBOH members who have been quite forthright in their views, but they do so out of frustration at the neglect the entire town council bar 1 or 2 on this harbour issue, and the majority have allowed the on slaught
of mindless nonsense from the minority and have stood by doing nothing?

Can you tell me what the dispute is? Who are the parties ? Where are the differences in opinion?

Pat-ience wrote: »

I used the word 'dispute' because I was tired and in a hurry
But would you not agree that there is an ongoing
'war of words' ?
between a local councillor
and some very vocal supporters of GUBOH

I am a supporter of GUBOH but find the 'flak'
is clouding the issue.
Those responding so vehemently to the councillor
are doing the group as a whole no favours.

I joined the Facebook page to stayed informed
but my newsfeed became full of
negative comments and retaliations.
I turned my newsfeed off
but when I went to check on any updates
there seemed to be no end to the negativity.
So I have left the group.

I think all the negativity dilutes the energy of the group
and feel it alienates people in the middle ground, like myself.

Here's what I think, the war of words is sometimes necessary, as to not respond allows nonsense to go unchecked publicly and becomes accepted by all. For example you probably think that NAMA is to blame for delaying the construction of the PCC? This is far from the truth, but the spin doctors and Sispar created a publicity stunt to fool the entire community that NAMA was the reason for the project stalling. If it wasn't for those relentless Challenges from GUBOH this matter would remain unchecked. Every Town councilor was sucked in by those lies, now Sispar say that legalities need to be sorted out which is holding up securing funding from other sources so that they can kick the can down th road again and again and again. It's your choice as to whether you want to support GUBOH when they are a happy clappy with bucket and spade gang or when the lies become intollerable and a more forthright campaign is required sometimes an apparent negativity is also required to stop the lies to the community. As a person I don't like it either, but if this is the small bit of pain I have to endure to get our harbour back then I'll do it, I'm sorry that you've given up you support for GUBOH. And ask you to perhaps reconsider, I know these people, and they are all very good people, honest and honourable, we should be proud to support them, and not leave them when they need our support most.

pixbyjohn

Greystones Harbour 4/4/2012 by pixbyjohn, on Flickr