News and views on Greystones harbour and marina [SEE MODERATOR WARNING POST 1187]

F3

Fiachra,

1500 readers a week on this thread. Remember, most Town Councilors were voted in on less than 250 votes!

I know, they read boards.ie threads, and especially this one. TC's should be proactive not reactive. Much as I agree that bloggers should make formal contact with the TC's p get their comments 'official', but I will never allow any public representative to claim ignorance of the content of this thread. When they are put to the sword on this thread, they react. You know it, and I know it.

Apart from one or two, most are doing nothing. Just look at Greystones Guide and look at which TC's have kept their heads below the parapet recently under the 'harbour updates' tab, No proactive opinion, direction or commitment been offered to the people of Greystones. I make a plea to the 1500 readers a week here, remember who is proactive or sitting on the fence regarding the harbour when it comes to election time.

jobless

http://www.greystonesguide.ie/cllr-hayden-accuses-protest-group-of-fibbing-on-north-beach-erosion/

Cllr Hayden accuses protest group of ‘fibbing’ on North Beach erosion

Local Fianna Fail Town Councillor, Ciarán Hayden, has accused the harbour objection group GUBOH of telling lies to discredit both Wicklow County Council and Sispar in relation to the coastal erosion on the North Beach. At last night’s Harbour Liaison Committee meeting GUBOH representatives accused Sispar of being negligent in relation to the managed retreat of the cliffs. They stated that Sispar have not done what was required in the development programme to arrest the coastal erosion and that Sispar are responsible for the disappearance of the North Beach (This has also been stated by their committee members on their social pages). However this is at complete odds with what has actually happened. Sispar are managing the retreat to 21 meters over 30 years and are well inside that parameter at present. 10,000 cubic meters of shingle has been deposited on the beach and 6,000 cubic meters of secretion removed. This is in complete compliance with the conditions set out in planning. The cliffs and beach are monitored every March to ensure the retreat is managed accordingly.

Cllr Hayden stated after the meeting “GUBOH and their close cousins in the GPDA are cleverly orchestrating a campaign to discredit Sispar and Wicklow County Council at every opportunity. They bring up coastal erosion as if it was a new phenomenon in Greystones and that it was the fault of the developers. The rail line has been moved three times since the late 19th century and that was certainly not Sispar’s fault. I am sick and tired of this group fibbing to the community about coastal erosion, planning permissions, the state of the Cliff Walk, contract dates and such like. They will grasp at anything to discredit the promoters of Greystones Harbour and yet offer nothing positive in return.”

After walking the North Beach this morning Cllr Hayden said “at certain tides and during certain storm surges the beach does disappear and the cliffs do erode as they have always done. This picture from 2002, taken long before Sispar arrived, clearly demonstrates that. This morning it is high tide at 10.35 am and the beach is fully accessible in its entirety. This picture and my walk up here this morning proves that GUBOH/GPDA are up to mischief again.”

F3

jobless wrote: »

http://www.greystonesguide.ie/cllr-hayden-accuses-protest-group-of-fibbing-on-north-beach-erosion/

Cllr Hayden accuses protest group of ‘fibbing’ on North Beach erosion

Local Fianna Fail Town Councillor, Ciarán Hayden, has accused the harbour objection group GUBOH of telling lies to discredit both Wicklow County Council and Sispar in relation to the coastal erosion on the North Beach. At last night’s Harbour Liaison Committee meeting GUBOH representatives accused Sispar of being negligent in relation to the managed retreat of the cliffs. They stated that Sispar have not done what was required in the development programme to arrest the coastal erosion and that Sispar are responsible for the disappearance of the North Beach (This has also been stated by their committee members on their social pages). However this is at complete odds with what has actually happened. Sispar are managing the retreat to 21 meters over 30 years and are well inside that parameter at present. 10,000 cubic meters of shingle has been deposited on the beach and 6,000 cubic meters of secretion removed. This is in complete compliance with the conditions set out in planning. The cliffs and beach are monitored every March to ensure the retreat is managed accordingly.

Cllr Hayden stated after the meeting “GUBOH and their close cousins in the GPDA are cleverly orchestrating a campaign to discredit Sispar and Wicklow County Council at every opportunity. They bring up coastal erosion as if it was a new phenomenon in Greystones and that it was the fault of the developers. The rail line has been moved three times since the late 19th century and that was certainly not Sispar’s fault. I am sick and tired of this group fibbing to the community about coastal erosion, planning permissions, the state of the Cliff Walk, contract dates and such like. They will grasp at anything to discredit the promoters of Greystones Harbour and yet offer nothing positive in return.”

After walking the North Beach this morning Cllr Hayden said “at certain tides and during certain storm surges the beach does disappear and the cliffs do erode as they have always done. This picture from 2002, taken long before Sispar arrived, clearly demonstrates that. This morning it is high tide at 10.35 am and the beach is fully accessible in its entirety. This picture and my walk up here this morning proves that GUBOH/GPDA are up to mischief again.”

"However this is at complete odds with what has actually happened. Sispar are managing the retreat to 21 meters over 30 years and are well inside that parameter at present. 10,000 cubic meters of shingle has been deposited on the beach and 6,000 cubic meters of secretion removed. This is in complete compliance with the conditions set out in planning. The cliffs and beach are monitored every March to ensure the retreat is managed accordingly"

Wow!! Is it at odds with what has happened?, That's what about 2 feet per year is it not? It looked to me two weeks ago to be about 15 to 20 feet, but I'm not an expert in such matters and don't know the 'starting point'. Is this not like a marathon runner who has a pint of water and drinks half of it after the first mile, he still has water to complete the race, but he better sip it slowly. I also thought it was 30,000m3 that should have been placed not 10,000m3 ? Is this all in complete compliance or perhaps Ciaran Haydren got his thoughts muddled up? Again

F3

“We are now dealing with a Ghost Harbour in Greystones”

Independent TD Stephen Donnelly has been advised by the chief executive of NAMA that they have been back in touch with Sispar and believe that a decision will be made in a matter of weeks.  “The catastrophe that is Greystones Harbour needs to be sorted out immediately” said Donnelly.  “It is hard to see how we can promote Greystones as a viable place for tourism when tourists are greeted by acres of mud, metal fencing and discarded concrete at the harbour and cliff walk”.

“I've heard that there are now plans to wind the cliff walk in a circle back to Bray, bypassing Greystones completely.  This is totally understandable given the horrific conditions you experience as you walk along the harbour development as it now stands” said Donnelly.  “Immediate action must be taken, under no circumstances can we allow this to continue.  It is harming the community and local enterprise” said the Independent TD.  “We are now dealing with a ghost harbour, and the council and the developer must do what ever they can to resolve this issue and return a much loved amenity back to the people of Greystones".

Stephen Donnelly TD
www.stephendonnelly.ie
07/03/2012

The Durutti Column

F3 wrote: »

Independent TD Stephen Donnelly has been advised by the chief executive of NAMA that they have been back in touch with Sispar and believe that a decision will be made in a matter of weeks.  “The catastrophe that is Greystones Harbour needs to be sorted out immediately” said Donnelly.  “It is hard to see how we can promote Greystones as a viable place for tourism when tourists are greeted by acres of mud, metal fencing and discarded concrete at the harbour and cliff walk”.

“I've heard that there are now plans to wind the cliff walk in a circle back to Bray, bypassing Greystones completely.  This is totally understandable given the horrific conditions you experience as you walk along the harbour development as it now stands” said Donnelly.  “Immediate action must be taken, under no circumstances can we allow this to continue.  It is harming the community and local enterprise” said the Independent TD.  “We are now dealing with a ghost harbour, and the council and the developer must do what ever they can to resolve this issue and return a much loved amenity back to the people of Greystones".

Stephen Donnelly TD

Given the utter silence of town and county councillors, with the exception of Tom Fortune, on the crisis for Greystones created by Sispar's failure and neglect, it is good to hear a TD sound the alarm and demand action.

I'd like to know more about this plan to cut off the cliff walk short of Greystones. I had heard that hundreds of walkers are now stopping short, taking a track to Windgates and heading back to Bray, but not that there is any plan to formalise this.

Greystones is losing out big-time on account of the harbour disaster. I sat down by Joe Sweeney's with my daughter one weekend morning and watched as dozens of walkers passed. Not one went into Sweeney's. Not one went into the Beach House. Not one entered the harbour itself. They all passed through as quickly as they could.

Nuff said?

Blanchflower

F3 wrote: »

"However this is at complete odds with what has actually happened. Sispar are managing the retreat to 21 meters over 30 years and are well inside that parameter at present. 10,000 cubic meters of shingle has been deposited on the beach and 6,000 cubic meters of secretion removed. This is in complete compliance with the conditions set out in planning. The cliffs and beach are monitored every March to ensure the retreat is managed accordingly"

Wow!! Is it at odds with what has happened?, That's what about 2 feet per year is it not? It looked to me two weeks ago to be about 15 to 20 feet, but I'm not an expert in such matters and don't know the 'starting point'. Is this not like a marathon runner who has a pint of water and drinks half of it after the first mile, he still has water to complete the race, but he better sip it slowly. I also thought it was 30,000m3 that should have been placed not 10,000m3 ? Is this all in complete compliance or perhaps Ciaran Haydren got his thoughts muddled up? Again

At the first Oral Hearing Clon Ulrick BSc(Eng) CEng MICE MIStructE from Ove Arup & Partners Limited (consultant for Wicklow County Council stated the following inSection 5.5.1 in his Brief of Evidence:
"Capital nourishment: It will be necessary to place some initial beach nourishment to minimise the impact of initial changes to the coastline during construction. It is proposed that 30,000 m3 will be place during the construction of the breakwaters."

Sispar have only placed 10,000 m3 of the promised 30,000 m3 even though the breakwaters have been finished nearly two years ago. Is it any wonder that the North Beach has gone and the cliffs are eroding into the sea at an alarming rate.

Jimjay

The Durutti Column wrote: »

Greystones is losing out big-time on account of the harbour disaster. I sat down by Joe Sweeney's with my daughter one weekend morning and watched as dozens of walkers passed. Not one went into Sweeney's. Not one went into the Beach House. Not one entered the harbour itself. They all passed through as quickly as they could.

Nuff said?

I walk the cliff walk regularly to keep fit, last thing i want to do on my way back is stop for chips. Just because people walk by doesn't mean the chippy is loosing trade from walkers. If you go down the road to summervilles it is always packed with walkers who probably prefer the healthier option there than the fried food at Sweeney or beach house.

The wind gates walk is wonderful and I prefer it to the usual cliff walk. It's much quieter, higher up with wonderful open space and better views of greystones. I walk from greystones, to bray, up to the cross then along the top route, back down to the bray head walk though the windgates path and back to greystones. I can see greystones getting missed if you walk from bray and do this route backwards, no need to go to greystones then. If the harbour was nice it definatly would attract people to continue to greystones.

We were told decision by Nama would be in March, now we are in march we are told it is only weeks away? When next?

F3

Blanchflower wrote: »

At the first Oral Hearing Clon Ulrick BSc(Eng) CEng MICE MIStructE from Ove Arup & Partners Limited (consultant for Wicklow County Council stated the following inSection 5.5.1 in his Brief of Evidence:
"Capital nourishment: It will be necessary to place some initial beach nourishment to minimise the impact of initial changes to the coastline during construction. It is proposed that 30,000 m3 will be place during the construction of the breakwaters."

Sispar have only placed 10,000 m3 of the promised 30,000 m3 even though the breakwaters have been finished nearly two years ago. Is it any wonder that the North Beach has gone and the cliffs are eroding into the sea at an alarming rate.

Thanks for that Blanch! If this is correct, then Cllr. Haydren is completly wrong, Sispar have not been compliant and what is worse, is that he writes with such a poisonous pen without researching the facts and doing his homework. Some people never liked doing homework and it shows. I think a very public apology is on the cards, or maybe Fine Fail will be sued by the individual's in GUBOH for the defamatory remarks. Also, It wouldn't surprise me if the last survey of the cliffs was was in fact the first baseline survey two years ago when the breakwaters were complete. I bet Fine Fail haven't done their homework here either, but this does not stop some people so blinded with ignorant rage that they simply want to scream. Anyway I'm dying with anticipation to see what will happen. Remember, those who act in haste, repent in leisure. But it brings a great comical side to the whole pantomime, next thing we will hear on the streets of Greystones will be the chant from children saying "he's behind you!"

F3

Jimjay wrote: »

I walk the cliff walk regularly to keep fit, last thing i want to do on my way back is stop for chips. Just because people walk by doesn't mean the chippy is loosing trade from walkers. If you go down the road to summervilles it is always packed with walkers who probably prefer the healthier option there than the fried food at Sweeney or beach house.

The wind gates walk is wonderful and I prefer it to the usual cliff walk. It's much quieter, higher up with wonderful open space and better views of greystones. I walk from greystones, to bray, up to the cross then along the top route, back down to the bray head walk though the windgates path and back to greystones. I can see greystones getting missed if you walk from bray and do this route backwards, no need to go to greystones then. If the harbour was nice it definatly would attract people to continue to greystones.

We were told decision by Nama would be in March, now we are in march we are told it is only weeks away? When next?

I think you are being overly defensive here, firstly Durrutii was making the point that the walkers did not go into any of the businesses for freshments, secondly have you ever had the chowder and brown bread in the beach house? It's not fried food and it is famous around these parts with everyone not just walkers. And thirdly, to even contemplate a diversion of the cliff walk from greystones is akin to hearacey in these parts!!!

The Durutti Column

I walk the cliff walk regularly to keep fit, last thing i want to do on my way back is stop for chips. Just because people walk by doesn't mean the chippy is loosing trade from walkers. If you go down the road to summervilles it is always packed with walkers who probably prefer the healthier option there than the fried food at Sweeney or beach house.

The wind gates walk is wonderful and I prefer it to the usual cliff walk. It's much quieter, higher up with wonderful open space and better views of greystones. I walk from greystones, to bray, up to the cross then along the top route, back down to the bray head walk though the windgates path and back to greystones. I can see greystones getting missed if you walk from bray and do this route backwards, no need to go to greystones then. If the harbour was nice it definatly would attract people to continue to greystones.

We were told decision by Nama would be in March, now we are in march we are told it is only weeks away? When next?

F3 wrote: »

I think you are being overly defensive here, firstly Durrutii was making the point that the walkers did not go into any of the businesses for freshments, secondly have you ever had the chowder and brown bread in the beach house? It's not fried food and it is famous around these parts with everyone not just walkers. And thirdly, to even contemplate a diversion of the cliff walk from greystones is akin to hearacey in these parts!!!

Sounds like a great walk, JJ, I must try it one of these days. However, two points:
1 F3 is right, nothing to do with food quality, much more to do with avoiding the horrible harbour and getting as far away as possible from this blight before stopping for refreshments — that's why I added that the walkers passed by the harbour too.
2 The Cliff Walk is intended to be part of the future Coastal Walk stretching to Wicklow Town. Doesn't seem like a very good way to promote such a thing, or bring it closer to reality, to completely destroy the approach to Greystones.

As for NAMA. What we have been told for over a year has been a subterfuge, a way of kicking the can down the road. Nama is not really the issue, as clearly Nama has said no to funding the health centre and club buildings. Sispar and WCC have as much as admitted this by saying they are "looking at" alternative funding. Nobody has a crystal ball, but if I were a betting man I'd bet there will be no further construction.

The only real issue is: Will Sispar produce a plan to remedy what Stephen Donnelly calls "the catastrophe that is Greystones Harbour"? Or will WCC have to call in the €10m bond and use the money to do that itself?

The Mayor called for a Plan B to do this to be produced at the HLC meeting last Tuesday. So did GUBOH. Maybe others too. WCC, in the person of Sean Quirke, and Sispar, in the person of Sisk's Paraic Keogh, refused to do so and ignored the community's concerns.

Time for action, methinks. GUBOH better pull its socks up and get cracking. No more Mr Nice Guy.

Jimjay

Sorry guys. I was just pointing out how When walking from the bray side a loop could be made avoiding greystones. That is a great walk but so would be walking to greystones and sitting on the edge of a bautiful harbour with an ice cream from sweeneys or a cold beer. I personally do often eat in the beach house, just not usually after walking to bray and back. I would do it much more when the harbour is complete. I havnt tried sweeneys, even before the new harbour was started but i suppose i would be tempted if it was complete.
I should have a been a little clearer, the businesses would see a big boost in trade if the harbour was to a good standard, not just from walkers but mainly people drivIng in to the town or coming on the dart.

F3

Jimjay wrote: »

Sorry guys. I was just pointing out how When walking from the bray side a loop could be made avoiding greystones. That is a great walk but so would be walking to greystones and sitting on the edge of a bautiful harbour with an ice cream from sweeneys or a cold beer. I personally do often eat in the beach house, just not usually after walking to bray and back. I would do it much more when the harbour is complete. I havnt tried sweeneys, even before the new harbour was started but i suppose i would be tempted if it was complete.
I should have a been a little clearer, the businesses would see a big boost in trade if the harbour was to a good standard, not just from walkers but mainly people drivIng in to the town or coming on the dart.

I agree J

recedite

Jimjay wrote: »

I was just pointing out how When walking from the bray side a loop could be made avoiding greystones.

That loop taking in the higher up "carriage path" has been shown on the mapboard at Raheen car park, at the Bray end, for a long time, but some people can't find the link back down to the cliff walk, so it was never as popular.

If, however they are thinking of putting new signs or arrows at the turning-off point on the cliff walk, (just below where the old Cliff hotel was at Windgates) then that would certainly divert a lot of the walkers. Especially as a lot of them have been getting lost on the final approach to Greystones, and wandering up The Grove to the main road near Lidl.

F3

No names needed.....

pixbyjohn

Finished or not the harbour attracts lot of visitors today 11/03/2012
Greystones Harbour car park 11/03/2012 by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

Cheeky Chops

I am very reluctant to post on this thread anymore. I suggested an email campaign ... a poster said he would put up the email addresses. Unless I missed it, it didn't happen. I suggested a public meeting and was told this was not possible at the moment. NO VOICE.

Maudi

ive been down to the harbour lots of times lately..and i really try and see something attractive about it.but i cant..apart from the bleak slap in the face of so much concrete ..to the utter waste land beyond the chipper towards the cliff walk..i get the impression one is supposed to look at it and exclaim "isint it wonderful" but the story of the emperiors new clothes describe it better...even on a beautiful sunny day like today was the harbour is a horror..(im not affliated to any group its just my oponion)

Jimjay

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

I am very reluctant to post on this thread anymore. I suggested an email campaign ... a poster said he would put up the email addresses. Unless I missed it, it didn't happen. I suggested a public meeting and was told this was not possible at the moment. NO VOICE.

Hi, I wouldn't stop posting. This is not a GUBOH thread.

pixbyjohn

Jimjay wrote: »

Hi, I wouldn't stop posting. This is not a GUBOH thread.

Exactly

F3

I agree, this is not a GUBOH thread, and up to now I've had no interest in getting involved in this ongoing saga, but I do strongly feel, that GUBOH have made a difference. We have all been led to believe by two pro-harbour TC's and by WCC and by Sispar, that Nama was the reason for the project stalling. This has now proven to be a complete and utter blatant lie! GUBOH were the only voice to recognise this 12 months ago and they were treated with contempt. How many more lies will we be told about the harbour. Who is fighting to do the right thing? Or have the bloggers on this thread finally given up? I'm going to enlist in GUBOH tomorrow and lend a help wherever I can.

pixbyjohn

F3 wrote: »

One of the 800 members Cheeky. Are you not?

Are you not already enlisted ? :D;)

F3

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Are you not already enlisted ? :D;)

Yes John as a member, now I want to get involved. Why don't you all join me?

pixbyjohn

F3 wrote: »

Yes John as a member, now I want to get involved. Why don't you all join me?

When they hold a public meeting and elect a committee, then I will consider it

Alister Ginger

Hello people, I've just read the last 20 pages of this thread and OMG! You boys and girls are really thump'n this harbour issue !!

I grew up in Greystones in the 60's 70's and early 80's and emigrated to South Africa, I'm back in the town 6 months and want to know just two things, where the hell is Cabanas and the Shopping basket and what in the name of God is going on with that foreshore in front of the Beach House?

Alister Ginger

Pixbyjohn you seem to be the camera man of this thread, you take all the pictures but don't say much, tell me what you think? Anyone as commited as you to take 000's of photographs of concrete blocks must have something to say? but might be a bit nervous in saying it, don't be scared brother, tell us what you really think?

F3

Cabanas is gone Al, it's gone...........as for the shopping basket, wow I gotta ask my dad ! Lol

pixbyjohn

:rolleyes:;)

FirstIn

F3 wrote: »

Cabanas is gone Al, it's gone...........as for the shopping basket, wow I gotta ask my dad ! Lol

Last I looked Loves Supermarket was still there. That's a wee while ago. What's this ShoppingBasket place, must be new? Anyways, back to the harbour talk...

loobylou

Xtra-vision is approximately where the Shopping Basket used to be.

MyPerfectCousin

Alister Ginger wrote: »

I grew up in Greystones in the 60's 70's and early 80's and emigrated to South Africa, I'm back in the town 6 months and want to know just two things, where the hell is Cabanas and the Shopping basket

Old Greystones thread