Daily Mail go for Gately

drkpower

KetchupKid wrote: »

They certainly aren't prejudices, just logic and common sense!!

Did you miss my original post above, or have your prejudices and love for Boyzone and Gatley blinded you? Acute pulmonary oedema is the reason for Gately's death, but this pulmonary oedema had to be caused by something. There are several things that could cause it, but most would have presented symptoms prior to death. Just because the press release says it wasn't caused by alcohol, doesn't mean it is necessarily true! If it wasn't from aspirating vomit, then how did the alcohol get on his lungs? I don't reallycare how he died, the poor lad is dead and I appreaciate that, but don't lie, they should have just kept all details private as opposed to say it was "natural".

I have no particular love for Boyzone, and I dont know much about Stephen except that he seemed like a good and decent lad.

But your attempts at making a medical diagnosis based on nothing are erroneous and irritating. There is nothing logical or aanything approaching common sense about your theorising. And I do know something about pulmonary oedema and it can and does happen when people die form SADS/SUDS (Sudden Adult Death Syndrome). That is by far the most likely reason for his death. And it does not present any symptoms before death.

You really need to stop theorising about things you know nothing about. It is embarrassing. And as for 'alcohol on his lungs', where in God's name are you getting that from......?!

brian ireland

Reading through this thread one thing is obvious. The majority of posters are on the side of reality and fairness.


Stephen Gatley
A young lad who loved music and acting had a dream like loads of kids to become a star. Stephen achieved that. He worked hard and upset no one. I watched him on RTE being interviewed and my impression was of a really nice person who knew where he came from and what he had achieved. He lived his dream and fair play to him. Just because he died at 33 does not mean there has to be more to it. Sadly young people die all the time without it being their fault.
Today we could see the real side people Ronan chocking on the tears and Keith saying in his speach that Stephen loved Mickey... .Long pause .... Mouse. That was a classic. He was comfortable cracking that joke because I guess he was thinking that Stephen was looking down on him and laughing. I suppose he loved Stephen and its his right to take the piss out of some one who you love knowing they love you and would think the joke funny is they were alive.. thats your VIP pass with friends, your bond with your friend.
Just because someone dies it does not mean live stops being funny.

To all the people looking for gossip and some real horrible twist to Stephen's life and death.. GO AWAY!!!
If his family are reading this on boards .. congratulations to you. Your child made all of ireland proud. And Thanks.

asdasd

They certainly aren't prejudices, just logic and common sense!!

Fraid not. You are in fact ignoring logic, and medical reports to fuel prejudice.

Did you miss my original post above, or have your prejudices and love for Boyzone and Gatley blinded you?

I dont know if any of us have any love for Boyzone, or Mr Gatley, whom I wouldnt have recognised on the street. Didnt like their middle of the road music. Nevertheless, a calumny is a calumny.

Acute pulmonary oedema is the reason for Gately's death, but this pulmonary oedema had to be caused by something.

Quite, it was caused by an undetected heart condition.

Just because the press release says it wasn't caused by alcohol, doesn't mean it is necessarily true!

Because the coroners report says it wasnt caused by alcohol means it is necessarily true that it wasn't, since that is their job. You, on the other hand did not have access to the body. How many other coroners reports do you disbelieve, or does it have to involve homosexuals?

If it wasn't from aspirating vomit, then how did the alcohol get on his lungs?

Youa re making up sh*te now. The coroners report mentioned no alchol on lungs or anywhere else. You ignore the report and believe what you want, seemingly.

There are several things that could cause it, but most would have presented symptoms prior to death.

as Brooker's column - linked to earlier - pointed out there are 12 cases a week of young people - often a lot younger than Gately - dying of undetected heart problems, or of secondary related causes, in the UK.

furiousox

KetchupKid wrote: »

this pulmonary oedema had to be caused by something.

Like an underlying hereditary heart problem perhaps?

Just because the press release says it wasn't caused by alcohol, doesn't mean it is necessarily true!

lt's not a press release it's a coroner's report

If it wasn't from aspirating vomit, then how did the alcohol get on his lungs?

Coroner's report stated fluid on the lungs not alcohol

they should have just kept all details private

Yeah, so then there would be no speculation on cause of death, right?

drkpower

KetchupKid wrote: »

Did you miss my original post above,

Yes, your original post...lets take a look at that, shall we?

KetchupKid wrote: »

Yes, fit young people occasionally die due to sudden and unprovoked heart failure, but usually there's an underlying problem such as a heart defect or an abnormal heart valve, didn't seem to be the case with Gately, otherwise I assume this would have been reported.,

Incorrect; SADS usually has no underlying problem or, at least, no detectable underlying problem.

KetchupKid wrote: »

Pulmonary oedema is typically due to previous cardiovascular disease and it would be very unusual for someone who wasn't sick and Gately was healthy and apparently very fit since he was dancing and performing on stage without any previous symptoms or complaints. Fluid can build up in the lungs for many reasons. ,

Wrong again; ever heard of Cormac McAnallen or any of the other high profile deaths from this tragic disease? A number of elite sportsmen have died from this condition who were obviously in rude health beforehand.

KetchupKid wrote: »

Now, fluid can also get onto the lungs via aspirating fluids.,

You seem to suffering from a misperception that the fluid on the lung is the fluid that is aspirated. That is also incorrect. Pulmonary oedema can develop from aspirating fluid (or foreign bodies) but the fluid on the lung is not the fluid that is aspirated.

KetchupKid wrote: »

This can happen if someone is drunk and aspirates fluids while vomiting or it could also occur other ways!!.

Pathetic innuendo.

You went to all that bother of posting a long post which is so utterly incorrect in fact. Could you not have bothered to do a bit of googling beforehand? Clearly not.

thee glitz

rté
Scotland Yard / PCC investigate Gately complaint

Scotland Yard has said that it has received a complaint about an article written by a newspaper columnist about
the death of Boyzone singer Stephen Gately. Jan Moir's article which was published in last Friday's Daily Mail, questions
whether Mr Gately died of natural causes.

The article also prompted more than 1,000 complaints to the Press Complaints Commission. A spokesman for the PCC said
most of the complaints relates to questions of accuracy, intrusion and discrimination.

Nodin

KetchupKid wrote: »

They certainly aren't prejudices, just logic and common sense!!

Did you miss my original post above, or have your prejudices and love for Boyzone and Gatley blinded you?

Couldn't stand the sight or sound of them - I had the sound off when the mass was on the news yesterday. I've been listening to punk/hardcore/metal and alternative stuff for most of my life, and as I'm 40, thats a long time.

The fact is a lad went out for a few jars, laid down to sleep and died. It happens, and its apparently fuck all to do with drink, drugs and most certainly nothing to do with him being gay.

However, if you know better, then to the Coroners office you must go....

tallaght01

drkpower wrote: »

I have no particular love for Boyzone, and I dont know much about Stephen except that he seemed like a good and decent lad.

But your attempts at making a medical diagnosis based on nothing are erroneous and irritating. There is nothing logical or aanything approaching common sense about your theorising. And I do know something about pulmonary oedema and it can and does happen when people die form SADS/SUDS (Sudden Adult Death Syndrome). That is by far the most likely reason for his death. And it does not present any symptoms before death.

You really need to stop theorising about things you know nothing about. It is embarrassing. And as for 'alcohol on his lungs', where in God's name are you getting that from......?!

Plus his family have mentioned a hereditary heart condition that has caused problems on his dad's side of the family. That's pretty likely to by hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.
I'm not sure if the pathologist commented on his ticker. But that comes on most commonly in your 30s, with no previous symptoms, causes cardiac arrest and can lead to pulmonary oedema.

KetchupKid

drkpower wrote: »

Pathetic innuendo.
You went to all that bother of posting a long post which is so utterly incorrect in fact. Could you not have bothered to do a bit of googling beforehand? Clearly not.

Well I did do some googling and this pulmonary oedema had to be caused by something, but where you hear that "it was caused by an undetected heart condition."?? The coroner's report had no mention of any heart condition.

"it will be several weeks before it is known whether alcohol or drugs were in his bloodstream when he died. The post mortem offered no clues about the underlying cause of the oedema and the family of the 33-year-old will have to wait up to a fortnight for further test results.
His death may have been the result of an unknown underlying medical condition but this has yet to be confirmed"

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/music/news/stephen-gately-exact-cause-of-death-will-not-be-known-for-two-weeks-14530054.html#ixzz0UHdNEbTy

But a court spokeswoman said that alcohol was not a factor in his death.
“Stephen's death has nothing to do any alcohol he drank that night, it has nothing to do with drugs and he did not choke on his own vomit,” she said.
“If drink or drugs play any part in a death, they always put it in the cause of death.
“In this case they haven't. I'm not saying Stephen didn't vomit but I can categorically state he did not choke on his own vomit.”
It is expected that the test results will be available in around a fortnight."


All this indicates is that he didn't choke on his vomit, which is obvious since his death was caused by fluid on the lungs, not choking.


But there is still no indication of how the fluid got on his lungs, now we'll just have to wait a fortnight and see what the results say.

herya

KetchupKid wrote: »

But there is still no indication of how the fluid got on his lungs, now we'll just have to wait a fortnight and see what the results say.

You are just being ignorant. Human body is 60% water, you have fluids everywhere. You are full of fluid in one form or another, your organs are immersed in it. You don't need to swallow anything for your lungs to be full of fluid which normally circulates in their walls to hydrate them - it just builds up when the failing heart can no longer pump it around.

drkpower

KetchupKid wrote: »

Well I did do some googling and this pulmonary oedema had to be caused by something, but where you hear that "it was caused by an undetected heart condition."?? The coroner's report had no mention of any heart condition.

All this indicates is that he didn't choke on his vomit, which is obvious since his death was caused by fluid on the lungs, not choking.

But there is still no indication of how the fluid got on his lungs, now we'll just have to wait a fortnight and see what the results say.

While you may have googled, you have been unable to grasp what pulmonary oedema is. 'Fluid on the lungs' is the typical laymans term for pulmonary oedema but the 'fluid' on the lung is fluid produced by the lungs itself, usually in response to some insult/stress on the cardio-repiratory system. The 'fluid' does not come from anywhere else, as such, and certainly does not come from outside the body.

So, theoretically, it could have been caused by choking or a thousand other things. But by far the most likely cause of his death, given what we know and what the Coroner's office said, is that he suffered a sudden unexpected cardiac event which caused heart failure with consequent pulmonary oedema. What is so unlikely as to be ridiculous is that there was 'alcohol on his lungs' or that 'drink caused his death' or any of the other nonsense theories that you have been putting out here.

I dont expect you to have indepth medical knowledge but I do expect you to use your brain before you share with us your fantastical theories which are based on no evidence. So far you have been unable to demonstrate that you are using your brain, or if you are, that you dont have a significant undetected just detected brain problem.

ilovelamp2000

I don't really understand the fascination with how or why he died. It's largely irrelevant.

He's gone now, let him rest in peace.

drkpower

Rosco1982 wrote: »

I don't really understand the fascination with how or why he died. It's largely irrelevant.

Its not irrelevent to those who come at it from a homophobic standpoint where anything bad that happens to a gay person (or whatever group you dislike) is caused by the disgraceful lifestyle they engage in.

ejmaztec

With regard to the medical side, as they always say; "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Amalgam

Are you all that impatient or blinkered? tallaght01's post is worth quoting again..

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62585910&postcount=249

tallaght01 wrote: »

Plus his family have mentioned a hereditary heart condition that has caused problems on his dad's side of the family. That's pretty likely to by hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.
I'm not sure if the pathologist commented on his ticker. But that comes on most commonly in your 30s, with no previous symptoms, causes cardiac arrest and can lead to pulmonary oedema.

Here's the Wiki on Pulmonary edema: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulmonary_edema

CathyMoran

Fluid on the lungs can occur for many reasons - I had it aged 32, I do not see why some people seem so obsessed with it, it happens and it is absolutey horrible - I had it from pneumonia and and acute kidney failure after major surgery. While I had it I had to get my lungs drained 4 times an hour as they put a tube into my lungs which was unbelievably painful and still gives me nightmares (as it does my husband). Can people just leave the poor man to rest in peace.

oceanclub

Pretty disgusting article. Can anyone who buying anti-Irish tabloids such as the Mail explain to me why they do?

P.

eightyfish

Just thinking of other reasons why the Daily Mail is by far the worst tabloid out there, this comes to mind. The Mail campaigning both for and against the cervical cancer vaccine in Ireland and the UK - proving beyond any doubt that they don't give a sh*t about their readers, they don't care about the truth, and they don't understand even the most basic science.

orourkeda

21,000 complaints and counting

Clare Bear

orourkeda wrote: »

21,000 complaints and counting

I bet about 10% probably actually read the article. All the same, good that she isn't getting away with it. At least she's being shamed over it, though I'm sure in the long run she won't lose her job or anything drastic.

deadhead13

orourkeda wrote: »

21,000 complaints and counting

The PCC confirm that - "the number of complaints represent by far the highest number of complaints ever received about a single article in the history of the commission".

ejmaztec

eightyfish wrote: »

Just thinking of other reasons why the Daily Mail is by far the worst tabloid out there, this comes to mind. The Mail campaigning both for and against the cervical cancer vaccine in Ireland and the UK - proving beyond any doubt that they don't give a sh*t about their readers, they don't care about the truth, and they don't understand even the most basic science.

They're too shallow to understand pretty much everything. Many of their yarns aren't even properly researched, like when they had photos of Lisa-Marie Presley, reporting on how fat she was. It turned out that she was pregnant.

On another occasion they had a, photo of Kirstie Allsop, who just happened to have a dark mark under her nose. They immediately assumed that she had a problem with facial hair, and rambled on about the problems that women had with the issue. It turned out that old Kirstie had a rash.

The Daily Mail isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

herya

deadhead13 wrote: »

The PCC confirm that - "the number of complaints represent by far the highest number of complaints ever received about a single article in the history of the commission".

I'm not surprised, it was wrong on so many levels.

Logic-defying innuendo
Undermining official findings
Attacking a person who's not even been buried yet
Homophobia

eightyfish

deadhead13 wrote: »

The PCC confirm that - "the number of complaints represent by far the highest number of complaints ever received about a single article in the history of the commission".

Glad to see people responding to this.

Can we complain, in Ireland, about a British publication?

asdasd

The is a funny English dislike of the Daily Mail and/or the Guardian which is peculiar to the English Middle Classes ( although it plays in Ireland too). I generally know people who read the Guardian. The thing is to tut-tut anything in the Daily Mail. So if the Daily Mail has an article on foo, they disagree with it even if the idea is libertarian. For instance the Daily Mail has a problem with CC television. So do I. It is clearly intrusive.

I know a guy who rubbished their campaign thusly

if you ave nothing to hide mate.

Which is true. What about his right to online privacy? People regardless of guilt, have that right he opines, at least without probably cause.

In that case the statement

if you ave nothing to hide mate.

is rightwing.

So a totally different argument. Depending on who is arguing what, people are tribal not ideological in their arguments.

asdasd

in terms of the complaints thing, I see that as a liberal Mary WhiteHouse. I argued against Jan Moir on this thread but I dont give a **** about number of complaints. A different argument would get a large number of complaints back in the day from right wing nutjobs. Who cares? Defeat arguments by writing against them as a journalist, online, on these forums, on blogs or microblgging.. Complaints my arse.

deadhead13

eightyfish wrote: »

Glad to see people responding to this.

Can we complain, in Ireland, about a British publication?

There is nothing stopping anyone from Ireland making a complaint here....

http://www.pcc.org.uk/

eightyfish

asdasd wrote: »

Who cares? Defeat arguments by writing against them as a journalist, online, on these forums, on blogs or microblgging.. Complaints my arse.

Well - a journalist writes a horrible opinion piece saying that because a man has died and was gay, there is little chance he died of natural causes. She says that his mother is delusional to believe that he died of natural causes, even though this is what the official medical report said. She goes on to comment that this says something about the "happy ever after myth" of gay marriage, and comments on the immoral nature of his lifestyle. All before he is buried.

A. nobody complains
B. 100 people complain
C. 21,000 people complain

Which makes you feel a bit better about the world?

shoegirl

deadhead13 wrote: »

The PCC confirm that - "the number of complaints represent by far the highest number of complaints ever received about a single article in the history of the commission".

What makes me sad about this is that the Daily Mail has produced far more bigoted and vitrolic displays of bile, to far fewer complaints.

From reading the article it seems that the attack was a thinly veiled swipe at a perceived hedonistic gay lifestyle, using Gately as a cover. Whether or not he was living a mad lifestyle is nobodies business but his families. Unfortunately the way in which the entire affair has been reported and massive exploitation of the story for free public by umpteen other celebrities cannot help but fuel spurious speculation as to how the fellow met his end.

Fact are, we don't know and it is not our business to know either.

shoegirl

eightyfish wrote: »

Just thinking of other reasons why the Daily Mail is by far the worst tabloid out there, this comes to mind. The Mail campaigning both for and against the cervical cancer vaccine in Ireland and the UK - proving beyond any doubt that they don't give a sh*t about their readers, they don't care about the truth, and they don't understand even the most basic science.

I don't agree. The Star, the News of the World and the Sun are far more vicious and far more bigoted. But they tend to target ordinary people who don't have big bucks and lawyers to throw lawsuits at them, and shamelessly exploit ordinary people for extreme stories.

The case of Theresa Winters comes to mind, not to mention countless others who have been doorstepped and hounded by such papers. The outpouring of grief that appears on one page is all too frequently offset by another article on another page that represents a vicious attack on minority rights.

Mind you, the Sun's coverage of Matt Lucas's exes suicide certainly indicated some real scrapping hard for the most salacious details they could get.