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Daily Mail go for Gately

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    #332
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    walshb wrote: »
    Maybe I am too precise and inquisitive, but Gately's death from my understanding wasn't an every day occurrence, hence a wee bit of
    investigation was needed.

    Yes, its called an autopsy and it was performed. Do you think Spain and/or the Spanish medical system is some kind of second class system (compared to our own.....)?


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    #333
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,162 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    drkpower wrote: »
    Yes, its called an autopsy and it was performed. Do you think Spain and/or the Spanish medical system is some kind of second class system (compared to our own.....)?

    Where did I say that? But, you are automatically assuming that the Spanish would give this their full diligent commitment. A foreigner dead in their country after a night out with his partner and aged 34.

    There have been many examples where foreigners, including Irish, had autopsies performed in foreign countries where there was a real lack of diligence, which was only uncovered after a second autopsy was performed.

    All I am saying is that if my child died under those circumstances, I would want more than just the word of a foreign authority who have no connection at all to the deceased. Yes, I would want a second autopsy, one performed by my country.

    Anyone remember the half ass autopsy performed on that lad shot to death in Bolivia?

    See, these countries wouldn't give the same due diligence to a foreigner who dies on
    their land. It happens, and more often than you would think. What was the incessant rush to
    cremate Stephen Gately?


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    #334
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Don't you get Walshb's point? Autopsy was done in Spain, therefore automatically "half-assed". An Irish autopsy would have been better... because Gately was Irish... or something.


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    #335
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    walshb wrote: »
    So, you don't think it at all suspiscious the circumstances surrounding his
    death, and just because some ****ing half ass Spanish autopsy says it was.

    Been there, done that with you Walshb.
    "Men with men is not normal"

    "Gay men are living in a twilight world of Hedonism"

    Thinking this stuff is fine but my issue was that you said it in a thread in the days following his death on a forum in the country he was born in.


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    #336
    eightyfish
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭eightyfish


    walshb wrote: »
    See, these countries wouldn't give the same due diligence to a foreigner who dies on
    their land.

    I really, really don't think so.


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    #337
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,162 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Dudess wrote: »
    Don't you get Walshb's point? Autopsy was done in Spain, therefore automatically "half-assed". An Irish autopsy would have been better... because Gately was Irish... or something.
    Do you accept the autopsy and do you think it strange that anyone would want a second opinion, considering all the facts?

    Do you really think the Spanish authorities gave their full effort into going thru an autopsoy for some Irishman who died in their country?

    I wouldn't bet on it at all. Hence, second opinion please. I don't consider it an unreasonable request, do you?

    If it happened to your child, would you have him/her cremated so quickly without a second opinion from
    your own counry?


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    #338
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    walshb wrote: »
    Where did I say that? .

    Lol - good man....:P
    walshb wrote: »
    some ****ing half ass Spanish autopsy .
    walshb wrote: »
    But, you are automatically assuming that the Spanish would give this their full diligent commitment. A foreigner dead in their country after a night out with his partner and aged 34.

    There have been many examples where foreigners, including Irish, had autopsies performed in foreign countries where there was a real lack of diligence, which was only uncovered after a second autopsy was performed.

    All I am saying is that if my child died under those circumstances, I would want more than just the word of a foreign authority who have no connection at all to the deceased. Yes, I would want a second autopsy, one performed by my country.

    There is absolutely no reason to believe a spanish autopsy would be any worse than an Irish one. Do you believe that a PM done in Ireland is more thorough? Or is it just one done by an Irish person? Would you have any qualms about a PM done in Ireland by a non-national doctor...?:eek: Would he make a 'full effort' for some Irishman....?!!

    You really are making the most non-sensical ridiculous points, born not out of any knowledge but out of prejudice - initially some kind of dislike of homosexuality, now expanded to include foreigners..... Bloody Spanish....:P


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    #339
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,258 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    dr.bollocko wrote: »
    No you questioned the entire homosexual lifestyle and implied it was incorrect or somehow wrong. Just like that idiot Muir did.

    I call personal abuse! Post (jokingly) reported!

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #340
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    drkpower wrote: »
    Do you think Spain and/or the Spanish medical system is some kind of second class system (compared to our own.....)?

    Before you answer that read this


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    #341
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,162 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    drkpower wrote: »

    You really are making the most non-sensical ridiculous points, born not out of any knowledge but out of prejudice - initially some kind of dislike of homosexuality, now expanded to include foreigners..... Bloody Spanish....:P

    Where oh where was this mans sexual orientation brought into it?

    Straight man dies in foreign country aged 34 after night out, found dead in the morning. Foreigners perform autopsoy and say it's natural? Okay, some will accpet that. I may too, but I would also have an autopsoy performed in my home country, then when I am satisfied, I'd let it rest.

    There have been many instances of foreigners dying in countries with autopsies performed that were crap and not accurate, and only because
    the relatives asked for a second opinion it would not have been discovered.

    With Gately there is no chance for a second opinion, as he was cremated.
    Some could say that this was very convenient. Maaybe the detective in
    me is the problem.


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    #342
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    walshb wrote: »
    Do you accept the autopsy and do you think it strange that anyone would want a second opinion, considering all the facts?

    Do you really think the Spanish authorities gave their full effort into going thru an autopsoy for some Irishman who died in their country?

    I wouldn't bet on it at all. Hence, second opinion please. I don't consider it an unreasonable request, do you?

    If it happened to your child, would you have him/her cremated so quickly without a second opinion from
    your own counry?
    I would think they'd perform an autopsy to the same standard on each body that appears before them

    Not sure why you'd think they'd be less dilligent because he happens to be Irish

    Do you think an autopsy performed in Ireland, on a foreign tourist, is therefore also likely to be half-assed too? Are you up in arms about those too?


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    #343
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    walshb wrote: »
    some ****ing half ass Spanish autopsy
    What are you basing your conclusion that the autopsy was "half ass" on? Nothing really eh?
    if I were Gately's parents and my child died under those circumstances, aged 34, I would want a second opinion
    Oh well, if they didn't do what YOU'D do, there must be shenanigans a-brewing... Then again, your 34-year-old son hasn't died, so you don't actually have a clue what you'd do.
    at least an autoposy performed by an Irish authority.
    Why not an English authority? A French one? They all get similar training in forensic science.
    walshb wrote: »
    Where did I say that?
    The "half ass" comment, the "lack of diligence" comment...
    But, you are automatically assuming that the Spanish would give this their full diligent commitment. A foreigner dead in their country after a night out with his partner and aged 34.
    Yes, why not? Just because it suits your argument to assume they wouldn't doesn't mean that's actually the case.
    There have been many examples where foreigners, including Irish, had autopsies performed in foreign countries where there was a real lack of diligence, which was only uncovered after a second autopsy was performed.
    What "many examples"?
    All I am saying is that if my child died under those circumstances, I would want more than just the word of a foreign authority who have no connection at all to the deceased. Yes, I would want a second autopsy, one performed by my country.
    You're an expert in what you'd want if your child died... And how would an Irish authority have more connection to the deceased? Their Irishness? What the fuck use is that and what difference would it make?
    Anyone remember the half ass autopsy performed on that lad shot to death in Bolivia?

    See, these countries wouldn't give the same due diligence to a foreigner who dies on their land. It happens, and more often than you would think.
    You gave one example, dude. One example. Therefore you have rendered null and void your phrases "these countries (what do you mean by "these" countries? Foreign/not Irish perhaps?) wouldn't give the same due diligence to a foreigner who dies on their land" and "more often than you would think".
    What was the incessant rush to cremate Stephen Gately?
    He was a sexual deviant up to all sorts of debauchery the night he died, and his family are all in on it... that can ONLY be the conclusion.


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    #344
    Bodhisopha
    Registered Users Posts: 4,068 ✭✭✭Bodhisopha


    I sure as hell would want a second opinion. That's not to say the Spanish would do a bad job, but given his celebrity status, he would be certain to get one of the best damn autopsies this island has ever seen.

    There is nothing wrong with seeking a second opinion. It's certainly not the incompetent Spanish accusation some of you are trying to turn it into.


    EDIT: Maybe WalshB did actually make that accusation, but that aside, i would still want a second opinion.


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    #345
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,162 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    BTW, I am not saying that Ireland is the only country that can perform autopsies efficiently, my whole point is that if this happened to a son of mine, in a foreign country, under the circumstances, I really would want a second opinion, and if the second opinion didn't satisfy me, maybe more.
    Is that weird or strange? I don't think it is.

    The whole Gately affair was so rushed, hushed, cremated, and anyone who dared query it was labeled homophobic?:rolleyes:


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    #346
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    walshb wrote: »
    The whole Gately affair was so rushed, hushed, cremated, and anyone who dared query it was labeled homophobic?:rolleyes:

    Nobody was labeled 'homophobic' for suggesting fowl play.

    YOU were labeled 'homophobic' for making the above homophobic comments that I quoted in my last post.


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    #347
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    walshb wrote: »
    Do you really think the Spanish authorities gave their full effort into going thru an autopsoy for some Irishman who died in their country?
    I have no reason to believe they didn't... your one reasoning is: dey're farrdin Joe.
    I wouldn't bet on it at all.
    Well that's your paranoia - do you prefer not to be checked out by Asian/African doctors in the hospital? Inflammatory question I agree, but spurred on by the stuff you've been saying thus far.


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    #348
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,162 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Dudess wrote: »
    What "many examples"?
    .

    Quick one. Do you think that there have not been examples of ineffective and inaccurate autopsies being performed on people, whether that be here, England, France, Spain or wherever. If you think not, then that's funny.

    Simple: My child dies like Gately, I would want a thorough investigation.
    Gately from my reading didn't get that. At least, I would call for a second opinion, just to be sure. Call me weird, paranoid, but I guess I really value stuff like children.


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    #349
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    walshb wrote: »
    Maaybe the detective in me is the problem.
    Oooh, MATRON!!!


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    #350
    eightyfish
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭eightyfish


    walshb wrote: »
    BTW, I am not saying that Ireland is the only contry that can perform autopsies efficiently, my whole point is that if this happened to a son of mine, in a foreign country, under the circumstances, I really would want a second opinion, and if the second opinion didn't satisfy me, maybe more.

    Maybe Gatley's parents knew their son and when the outcome of the autopsy was "natural death", they were happy with that judgement? Maybe "but look at his lifestyle, it couldn't have been natural, surely" wasn't what his parents thought?

    I mean, seriously, why should they have insisted on a second autopsy? To judge them over this is unfair.


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    #351
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    walshb wrote: »
    Quick one. Do you think that there have not been examples of ineffective and inaccurate autopsies being performed on people, whether that be here, England, France, Spain or wherever. If you think not, then that's funy.
    Sure they're have, but your point earlier was the fact they're not Irish/Gately was Irish (and less of a priority for them - bit of a wild accusation to make, doctors generally don't tend to take nationality/ethnicity into account when performing what they're paid to do) makes them more likely to screw up. And you aren't able to give examples bar the Bolivia one, which of course means those doctors in Spain are automatically going to be similarly incompetent.
    It seemed like you were just plucking that nonsense out of the sky to support your argument though.
    I would want a thorough nvestigation. Gately from my reading didn't get that.
    Why not?
    At lest, I would call for a second opinion, just to be sure. Call me weird, paranoid, but I guess I really value stuff like children.
    Nobody's saying there's anything wrong with looking for a second opinion, just all the other fairly crazed stuff you were saying.
    You value "stuff" like children - good for you!


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    #352
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,162 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Dudess wrote: »
    Nobody's saying there's anything wrong with looking for a second opinion, just all the other fairly crazed stuff you were saying.
    You value "stuff" like children - good for you!

    Okay then, so I thought that the family should have called for a second opinion. I found it strange that Stephen was cremated so soon without a second opinion, considering that his death wasn't the normal and every day type of death. If th comments about the Spanish and half assed offended you, big sorry. I take it back.


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    #353
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Why would they offend me? I'm not a Spanish doctor. Finding something stupid isn't the same as being offended by it.


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    #354
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,162 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    eightyfish wrote: »
    I mean, seriously, why should they have insisted on a second autopsy? To judge them over this is unfair.

    I just found it odd, that is all. I never said they were bad or evil. I just said I found it odd, and that had it been a child of mine I would have asked for a second opinion.

    Also, not to sound bad, but if that was my child lying dead on a slab, I think I would want to be there. Who was there? ****ing Boyzone.


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    #355
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    walshb wrote: »
    Okay then, so I thought that the family should have called for a second opinion. I found it strange that Stephen was cremated so soon without a second opinion, considering that his death wasn't the normal and every day type of death. If th comments about the Spanish and half assed offended you, big sorry. I take it back.

    If a straight Irish guy died in Ireland and had an Irish autopsy, would you ask for a 2nd autopsy, no matter what the result?


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    #356
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,162 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Dudess wrote: »
    Why would they offend me? I'm not a Spanish doctor. Finding something stupid isn't the same as being offended by it.

    Stupid? Well, unfortunately there are stupid folks in the world, even those charged with carrying out autopisies;)


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    #357
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Boyzone were his friends?

    ****ing hell, it wasn't your child - you have no idea how you'd be in that situation. You haven't the remotest whiff of the kind of shock and grief you'd be going through and how it causes strange reactions, so give the expert-on-being-a-bereaved parent crap a rest will ya?

    I know a woman who didn't attend her son's funeral - why? Because it was too agonisingly painful for her, so maybe consider the ins and outs of the human condition instead of jumping onto a high horse, moralising and judging regarding something you cannot even comprehend.


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    #358
    witchgirl26
    Registered Users Posts: 2,115 ✭✭✭witchgirl26


    walshb wrote: »
    BTW, I am not saying that Ireland is the only contry that can perform autopsies efficiently, my whole point is that if this happened to a son of mine, in a foreign country, under the circumstances, I really would want a second opinion, and if the second opinion didn't satisfy me, maybe more.
    Is that weird or strange? I don't think it is.

    The whole Gately affair was so rushed, hushed, cremated, and anyone who dared query it was labeled homophobic?:rolleyes:

    Sorry coming in at the end of this thread but just wondering if you didn't read the articles with quotes from his family at the time saying that when the cause of death came back involving an underlying heart problem, it made sense to them because there was a family history of heart problems? Maybe they didn't want to go through the additional trauma of a second autopsy? They'd just lost their son in a sudden & horrible way. If the coroner's verdict came back with something that fitted into a family history that they hadn't previously mentioned, why would you need a second opinion? That's just my feeling on it.

    I don't label anyone who queries it homophobic but I do think that people saying that him dying like that "can't" be natural because of his lifestyle, when there are unfortunately many others of similar age of differing lifestyles who have died from the same thing, possibly are a bit. Also it didn't seemed rushed to me at all. He died on the 10th October & his funeral wasn't until the 17th, how is that rushed?


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    #359
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,162 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    drkpower wrote: »
    If a straight Irish guy died in Ireland and had an Irish autopsy, would you ask for a 2nd autopsy, no matter what the result?



    Serioulsy, what has his sexual orientation got to do with asking for a second opinion??:rolleyes:

    Staright, gay, asexual or whatever, sometimes folks asks for second opinions...
    Get with it


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    #360
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    walshb wrote: »
    Okay then, so I thought that the family should have called for a second opinion. I found it strange that Stephen was cremated so soon without a second opinion, considering that his death wasn't the normal and every day type of death.

    Their son is dead whomever carries out the autopsy and what ever the findings of a PM. Why do you think they would be so quick to dismiss the findings of the Spanish coroner?


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    #361
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    walshb wrote: »
    Serioulsy, what has his sexual orientation got to do with asking for a second opinion??:rolleyes:

    Staright, gay, asexual or whatever, sometimes folks asks for second opinions...
    Get with it

    You are not saying 'some folks do....'; you are saying that the family should have had a 2nd opinion and the fact that they didnt (as well as not going to Spain) makes it all a bit suspicious.

    So, again, would you like to answer the question:
    If a straight Irish guy died in Ireland and had an Irish autopsy, would you ask for a 2nd autopsy, no matter what the result?


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