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Hate the English??
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Rebelheart wrote: »People with hatred are usually self-defeating. Nevertheless, opposing a régime is often entirely legitimate and moral. The very foundation stone of the British (i.e. English and conquered Welsh and Scots) régime in Ireland rests upon a profound hatred of the Irish, a nomenclature which later was changed to 'Catholic'.
No amount of revisionism can revise the course and policies of British rule, and yes the British people who ruled over us, over a period of centuries. It was not, and indeed is not for a part of the Irish people, a mere flash in the pan, or even a selfless civilising campaign, as fashionable as both views may be for the "poppy day" school of benign British imperialism.
The British may be the nicest people in the world when they are over in Britain. That is neither here nor there. On the other hand, I have no evidence to support a similar contention about those people when they organise in Ireland (or anywhere else outside of Britain). If somebody has evidence of the nice peace-loving and selfless British saving the Irish from themselves, then please tell us what this evidence is.
It is entirely legitimate for any Irish person to be wary (to put it mildly) of organised groups of British people and their intentions in Ireland. There is a current phase of "the past is the past" (while part of Ireland remains under British rule but shhh), and then there is the unmistakable historical record over centuries of the British and all their cultural supremacism in Ireland. Hope meets reality.
What would the rational person trust in?
Maybe, as you are such a history expert, you could tell us when England conquered Scotland, or Wales for that matter.
is this a confession for the next part of your post.....Johnny Utah wrote: »
:rolleyes:
Wind-up merchant.Johnny Utah wrote: »LOL, where do I start with this one?
The UK didn't stand up to the Third Reich alone. They had a bit of help from the Soviets too, you know.
The UK was on the brink of defeat by the Germans in WWII. The RAF was absolutely decimated as the Luftwaffe had destroyed most of their airplanes. The Germans then switched their attention from bombing RAF airfields to bombing London. This was a big mistake by the Luftwaffe, as it gave the RAF time to repair the small number of planes it had left. Had the Germans concentrated their attacks on the remaining RAF planes, they would have had total air superiority over Britain and the War would most certainly have taken a different outcome. As it happened, the RAF ultimately defeated the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain, but most of their major cities were flattened, and Hitler then concentrated on the Eastern front as he didn't really see Britain as a major threat.
However, the truth is that Hitler actually never wanted to invade Britain at all. The Nazis wanted to control Contitnental Europe and wanted to be an ally of Britain and the US. This is on record, but is probably not widely known. Hitler never wanted war with Britain. Even after the Nazis conquered France, Hitler wanted peace with Britain. The only reason Britain intervened was because they recognised that there was a new continental empire emerging and they wanted to stop it. In reality, it was a war between the old British empire (which was once impressive 200-300 years ago) and an emerging superpower.
If you look back through history, Britain has always resisted such attempts to build a European empire, even going all the way back to the time of Napolean. The US intervened because it wasn't in their interest either to have a single European superpower.
Even today, the US/Britain only take military action for their own vested interest (oil).
The UK is not a global superpower anymore and hasn't been for some time. Post WWI, the British Empire fell into decline.
Incidentally, you do realise that the british Army is in Afghanistan, along with 41 other countires, one of which is Ireland, at the request of the UN. There is also no oil in Afghanistan, or Bosnia for that matter.Johnny Utah wrote: »Your friends were right not to salute the Queen. Why would you salute a foreign monarch? A monarch that has oppressed this country for centuries?
Would you stick your head in the fire if everyone else did it too?
Toasting the Queen is a sign of respect to a country. the Americans do it to their flag as do the French. If people are so opposed to the British monarchy, then they should stop working in Britain and paying her taxes.
Refusing to toast the Queen shows a distinct lack of respect and TBH, would be viewed by most people as simply childish.
The Irish actually have a tradition of loving the British monarchy and Vice Versa, Queen Victoria set up three major colleges in Ireland, Belfast, Cork and Galway, to encourage further education in Ireland. the trouble was, because teaching of Catholic doctrine was banned from these colleges (Catholics were welcomed, in fact, they were set up with the main goal being increasing education amongst catholics who could not attend trinity) the pope considered them godless and the Cardinal of Ireland forbade Catholics from attending. IE, contrary to common belief that Catholics were banned from education, it was actually Rome that was holding back education of Catholics, not the British.
This caused a bit of a problem for republicans though, how could you convince the population that they should leave a country when a lot of people loved their monarch, so the Irish Republican spin machine set about demonising the Monarch and ridiculing everyone who supported them.0 -
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I think that the british goverment should repeal the law that prevents the British Monarch from marrying a catholic to improve relations between our two countries.
This suggests that the British establishment considers Catholics to be some kind of second class citizens.
This law singularily forbids catholics from marrying the British Monarch.
Considering the history between our two countries and the religious bigotry that catholics (in NI and western Scotland) have had to endure in relatively recent times the symbolic removal of such a law would be a great catylist for better relations between our two countries.
Yes the law is hilarious...it's a form of religious fundamentalism.
TBH who in Ireland actually cares and why should we?
Relations between the countries are very good. I wasnt aware of bad relations. I personally cldnt care less about the religion of a foreign monarch.
I thought we had moved well away from this "Catholic Country" mentality.
I dont see how it has anything to do with Ireland what so ever. Sure Spain and Italy could make the same argument.0 -
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partyguinness wrote: »Yes the law is hilarious...it's a form of religious fundamentalism.
TBH who in Ireland actually cares and why should we?
Relations between the countries are very good. I wasnt aware of bad relations. I personally cldnt care less about the religion of a foreign monarch.
I thought we had moved well away from this "Catholic Country" mentality.Terrontress wrote: »I think there should be a separation between church and state. That way a law forbidding marriage between the monarch and the Catholic will be seen as just that. A law discriminating against Catholics. Not the affront to Ireland which you seem to think it is!
There were very good reasons why the law was brought in in the first place considering the political climate at the time. there have been discussions on this recently but it is a minfield and difficult to unpick. it very rarely becomes an issue though and the last time it did, the person in question chose to forego Catholicism in favour of a grand wedding in Windsor castle and the remote chance of one day being Queen. Incidentally, there is nothing that prevents a monarch from being married to a catholic, so once the wedding is over the affected person can easily convert back to believing in transubstantiation if they like.
The Dutch and Spanish have similar laws by the way and i believe the relations between tham and Ireland are just dandy.0 -
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partyguinness wrote: »Yes, most English people I meet are quiet dim when it comes to their own history not to mind Irish history. Similarly a lot of irish people are dim when it comes to Irish history and seem to repeat the same old tired rant..
But in their defence, why should they know anything about Irish history..havent they got enough of their own to be getting on with..all that imperialism, invasions, world wars, navel battles....:D
You forgot world cups as well
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