Hate the English??

blinding

partyguinness wrote: »

Yes the law is hilarious...it's a form of religious fundamentalism.

TBH who in Ireland actually cares and why should we?

Relations between the countries are very good. I wasnt aware of bad relations. I personally cldnt care less about the religion of a foreign monarch.

I thought we had moved well away from this "Catholic Country" mentality.

With regard to Northern Ireland how can Britain have such a law that relates to something so symbolically important as the Monarchy.
There is approx 45% of the population of NI catholic and quite a number of catholics in other parts of Britain as well.
The vast majority of the people in the republic of Ireland are Catholic as well. Now i know that many of these people are just nominally catholic but the symbolic significance of a law that treats you as second class citizens is not lost on many of them.
We do not have any such law in Ireland against any religion and if we had we would change it.

I do not see any progress in britain in dumping this law into the dust bin of history.

blinding

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You forgot world cups as well

Is'nt that just one world cup and that was at home anyway:D

Fratton Fred

blinding wrote: »

Is'nt that just one world cup and that was at home anyway:D

Rugby as well

partyguinness

blinding wrote: »

With regard to Northern Ireland how can Britain have such a law that relates to something so symbolically important as the Monarchy.
There is approx 45% of the population of NI catholic and quite a number of catholics in other parts of Britain as well.
The vast majority of the people in the republic of Ireland are Catholic as well. Now i know that many of these people are just nominally catholic but the symbolic significance of a law that treats you as second class citizens is not lost on many of them.
We do not have any such law in Ireland against any religion and if we had we would change it.

I do not see any progress in britain in dumping this law into the dust bin of history.

From what I can gather (and I spend a lot of time in the UK) Catholics in Britain are not that interested or even care so why should we?

Yes it is archaic and peculiar etc but who cares?

I wouldnt take it so personally.

I dont see it as being offensive to Ireland and therefore not an issue when it comes to Ire/Uk relations.

Yes it is valid point re NI Catholics and I am sure they are some that would be very quick to use it as a stick to hit the Authorities with but really...who cares at the end of the day?

The monarchy is just a very large museum that generates a lot of cash...

Hydroquinone

The idea that people who live in a Republic should give a flying fart about whether or not any bloody monarch anywhere can marry a Catholic or not is ridiculous.
Why does it matter to anyone who lives in Ireland?
I can see how - idealogically - it could bother a British Catholic, but I've never heard any of them bleat on about it. The only time you ever hear a peep about it is in one of these threads on here.

declanx

That's one more world cup than us....
As for hating the English: I got over that hangup a long time ago. Lots of English friends in work and on xbox. Most English have Irish connections. So to hate English people is to hate ourselves...oh wait that's been Irish.

Fratton Fred

blinding wrote: »

With regard to Northern Ireland how can Britain have such a law that relates to something so symbolically important as the Monarchy.
There is approx 45% of the population of NI catholic and quite a number of catholics in other parts of Britain as well.
The vast majority of the people in the republic of Ireland are Catholic as well. Now i know that many of these people are just nominally catholic but the symbolic significance of a law that treats you as second class citizens is not lost on many of them.
We do not have any such law in Ireland against any religion and if we had we would change it.

I do not see any progress in britain in dumping this law into the dust bin of history.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/25/anglicanism.catholicism1

most people see this law for what it is, a hangover from a past era and it is not high on anyones list of things to do.

blinding

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Rugby as well

Oh damn how could I have forgotten.:D

The rugby crowd are slipping up.

blinding

Fratton Fred wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/25/anglicanism.catholicism1

most people see this law for what it is, a hangover from a past era and it is not high on anyones list of things to do.

I was very pleased to see this (the link above) but am a little disappointed that it is slipping down the agenda.

A catholic might think that the establishment was not too bothered about something that offends catholics.

Hopefully it will be sorted because I believe people greatly under estimate the symbolic significance of this out dated law.

Fratton Fred

blinding wrote: »

I was very pleased to see this (the link above) but am a little disappointed that it is slipping down the agenda.

A catholic might think that the establishment was not too bothered about something that offends catholics.

Hopefully it will be sorted because I believe people greatly under estimate the symbolic significance of this out dated law.

i think you mifgt be overestimating the importance of religion in Britain. It is not worn like a badge as it is on this island.

ejmaztec

I think that 1990 must be Ireland's 1966, because people here are still banging on about it, but I can't remember who won what against who, or even what sport it was.

ch750536

What I hate about the English.

I hate the way they assume they are a world power and must be treated as such (Link)

I hate the way they behave when overseas with no respect for the locals (Link)

I hate the way the people of England lie down when they should be standing up (Link)

I hate the way they refuse to integrate when moving overseas (lots of 'Little Englands' all over the place)

I hate the way they lie about foreign policy, then do nothing when the lie is proven.(Link)

I hate they way they look down on others (seen this many times myself)

I hate the way the create rules for fun (link)

I could go on, but there is a lot to hate.

I was born in England & lived there till I was 30, I was one of the few who constantly thought we were wrong, so I left.

Hopefully the attitudes will change, then I may return.

Fratton Fred

ch750536 wrote: »

I hate the way they refuse to integrate when moving overseas (lots of 'Little Englands' all over the place)

you weren't born in kilburn by any chance were you?

mike65

Self hater!

/edit, indeed County Kilburn. Little Ireland as was (dunno if it still is)

blinding

Fratton Fred wrote: »

i think you mifgt be overestimating the importance of religion in Britain. It is not worn like a badge as it is on this island.

The Catholic faith is closely identified with the Irish in britain though there are British Catholics (and many Polish now too).
This is why this law is offensive to Irish people in Britain and to Catholics in NI who are after all British citizens.

If I am over estimating the importance of religion in Britain then it should not be a big deal to get the law removed. But for whatever reason it has not happened which would leave one to consider that retaining a law that is offensive to catholics does not greatly trouble the british establishment.

The removal of this law would be a huge stepping stone in the reconciliation between Catholic and Protestant and between the British and the Irish.

So many people say its no big deal but it still remains in place.

ejmaztec

ch750536 wrote: »

What I hate about the English.

I hate the way they assume they are a world power and must be treated as such (Link)

I hate the way they behave when overseas with no respect for the locals (Link)

I hate the way the people of England lie down when they should be standing up (Link)

I hate the way they refuse to integrate when moving overseas (lots of 'Little Englands' all over the place)

I hate the way they lie about foreign policy, then do nothing when the lie is proven.(Link)

I hate they way they look down on others (seen this many times myself)

I hate the way the create rules for fun (link)

I could go on, but there is a lot to hate.

I was born in England & lived there till I was 30, I was one of the few who constantly thought we were wrong, so I left.

Hopefully the attitudes will change, then I may return.

There was always a problem in days of "Empire", when one went "native" after moving to the jungle.:eek:

ch750536

ejmaztec wrote: »

There was always a problem in days of "Empire", when one went "native" after moving to the jungle.:eek:

I went native before moving, saves time that way.

Quint

What's wrong with england going on about the 66 world cup? They beat germany in a final, a country they were at war with only 20 years earlier in what's probably one of the most famous and exciting finals in the biggest sporting competition in the world.

Now, going on about winning 1 group game in the euros in 88 (when we didn't even get out of the group!) is pathetic!

ch750536

Quint wrote: »

What's wrong with england going on about the 66 world cup? They beat germany in a final, a country they were at war with only 20 years earlier in what's probably one of the most famous and exciting finals in the biggest sporting competition in the world.

Now, going on about winning 1 group game in the euros in 88 (when we didn't even get out of the group!) is pathetic!

That in particular winds me up. Since then England are expected to win at every competition, rugby, cricket etc.

They are a second rate country with second rate teams and should applaud any achievement, take a look at how they were treated in Italy in 1990.

Dudess

I love loads of things about England - the brilliant music, literature, television, film, theatre, broadcasters, newspapers and magazines that come out of there; the fact its population actually appears very diverse rather than this homogenic mass of little Englanders some seem to think it comprises (compare e.g. Manchester to London to Swindon); soccer - it's about the only sport I'd have something of an interest in (apart from a major hurling game with Cork playing - note: that is my only "rebel" tendency... ) and above all, its fantastic sense of humour which is often very self deprecating (the "superiority" thing is not as widespread as some AH contributors would have one believe). I actually often get a sense of overt political correctness and apologetic tones for the sins of the past from e.g. the BBC, Channel 4 and The Guardian. I also find English people can be "ever so" polite and pleasant about stuff that you'd expect to get their tempers flaring.
I love too, how politicians over there will resign immediately for misconduct, unlike here.
As for the whole Daily Mail/Daily Express Middle England thing - I wouldn't be surprised if that was reviled moreso in England itself than anywhere else.

I love living in Ireland as the quality of life is pretty amazing and it's fairly laid-back (with exceptions obviously) and Irish people are generally good fun, but there are things I like about England that you won't get here (and vice versa).

As for England's history, yeah, some pretty heinous stuff there - should today's population be made to atone for it? Ridiculous.
Sure, there are horror stories about racial discrimination against Irish people over there - these are isolated incidents though, and not representative of the bigger picture.

And when it comes to Northern Ireland, yeah, I'd be leaning in the (anti violence) republican direction and I dislike the way there is a lot of dismissiveness/ignorance down here in relation to what went on up there in recent years, but I don't see how English people have anything to do with that.

England provided a haven for Irish people at one time - sure, a lot of those Irish people had to put up with sh1t, but a lot of them absolutely thrived and wouldn't come back here for love nor money.

Hydroquinone

ch750536 wrote: »

That in particular winds me up. Since then England are expected to win at every competition, rugby, cricket etc.

They are a second rate country with second rate teams and should applaud any achievement, take a look at how they were treated in Italy in 1990.

Surely, if any country gets into the finals of any sort of world cup competition, their media and followers of the game should support them and hope for the best for them. Why is it only a bad thing when the English do it?

The Australians are sports mad, I bet their media get behind them. Same goes for the Americans. What happens in France when they qualify for something? Do their media and sports fans give it a Gallic shrug and say "Pffft. They'll be shíte"? What about the Spanish or the Dutch or the South Africans? Does everyone in those countries ignore sporting qualification in global competitions?
No. They don't.
Does it wind you up when all of thsoe countries do it? I bet it doesn't. And you know why, so you must know how to stop it winding you up.

And anyway, Ireland is just as guilty of it as every other country. What about the carry on at the last rugby word cup? Every man and his dog in Ireland thought that BO'D and his merry men only had to turn up and they'd be bringing home the silverware. It was not to be, yet they were feted as heroes when they got home. A team that didn't even get out of the pool stages in a competition with a staggering 20 teams in it!
How was that worthy of a parade and a big homecoming hullabaloo?

Every country that has a team that makes it into the world cup finals of anything big does the same thing. You getting pissed off because you witness some shower of foreigners doing it is hardly their fault, is it?

Fratton Fred

blinding wrote: »

The Catholic faith is closely identified with the Irish in britain though there are British Catholics (and many Polish now too).
This is why this law is offensive to Irish people in Britain and to Catholics in NI who are after all British citizens.

If I am over estimating the importance of religion in Britain then it should not be a big deal to get the law removed. But for whatever reason it has not happened which would leave one to consider that retaining a law that is offensive to catholics does not greatly trouble the british establishment.

The removal of this law would be a huge stepping stone in the reconciliation between Catholic and Protestant and between the British and the Irish.

So many people say its no big deal but it still remains in place.

let me rephrase, you are overestimating the importance of religion to the people of Britain. to the constitution it is quite a big thing. The monarch is the head of the church of England so to an extent it is a bit like saying why does the pope need to be Catholic.

No one thinks this law is right, but as it only actually affects at most one person per generation there has never been the need to repeel it. If Wills or Harry decided to marry a Catholic then it would be changed, but in living memory the only people it has affected have been distant relatives who had to relinquish their tenuous right to the throne. there is also the right of men to the throne before women which also needs to be looked at, that is arguably marginalising more people than the right of settlement as (And this is off the top of my head, so please don't ask me for figures to back this up) there are more women in the UK than there are Catholics.

DoireNod

Dudess makes a good point.

Fratton Fred

ch750536 wrote: »

That in particular winds me up. Since then England are expected to win at every competition, rugby, cricket etc.

They are a second rate country with second rate teams and should applaud any achievement, take a look at how they were treated in Italy in 1990.

I don't watch RTE that much (Because it is crap) but could you tell me if they have stopped showing reruns of the first Ireland v England game at Croke Park? I missed the last 186 times it was shown and I would like to record it so I can keep it alongside my commemorative box set marking the 20th anniversary of the time Ireland beat England in the european championship and the 176,856 DVDs, documentaries, newspaper articles, tee shirts and commemorative place mats I have marking the fact that Ireland have now won two grand slams more than Italy.

As for Italia 90, well........

blinding

Fratton Fred wrote: »

let me rephrase, you are overestimating the importance of religion to the people of Britain. to the constitution it is quite a big thing. The monarch is the head of the church of England so to an extent it is a bit like saying why does the pope need to be Catholic.

No one thinks this law is right, but as it only actually affects at most one person per generation there has never been the need to repeel it. If Wills or Harry decided to marry a Catholic then it would be changed, but in living memory the only people it has affected have been distant relatives who had to relinquish their tenuous right to the throne. there is also the right of men to the throne before women which also needs to be looked at, that is arguably marginalising more people than the right of settlement as (And this is off the top of my head, so please don't ask me for figures to back this up) there are more women in the UK than there are Catholics.

I take all you say on board but it is the symbolism that is important. When it comes to Head of states of countries then really in this day and age a law like this cannot continue.

It would be of great symbolic importance to catholics and Irish catholics in particular if the right thing was done.

I know that there are constitutional difficults but I believe the benefits will far out weigh the difficulties.

Seriously who would come out against such a change in this day and age and if the british establishment (constitution ?) cannot achieve this, is it fit for purpose at this time.

Fratton Fred

blinding wrote: »

I take all you say on board but it is the symbolism that is important. When it comes to Head of states of countries then really in this day and age a law like this cannot continue.

It would be of great symbolic importance to catholics and Irish catholics in particular if the right thing was done.

I know that there are constitutional difficults but I believe the benefits will far out weigh the difficulties.

Seriously who would come out against such a change in this day and age and if the british establishment (constitution ?) cannot achieve this, is it fit for purpose at this time.

No one would argue against it, but I think things like the recession, Afghanistan, Swine Flu etc are all considered more important.

there are study groups trying to work out how to do it, you are talking a change to a country's constitution here, not just scrapping a law and the British constitution is a very complex thing in comparison to, for example, the Irish one.

The Irish one was written by a group of guys who sat down and thought logically and is changed by referendum when needed. the British one takes in acount English and Scottish constitutions that have evolved over 1000 years and not only incorporate all the mumbo jumbo of Monarchy, but also Parliament and the wranglings between Monarchy and Parliament.

It is not an overnight job and as i say, until there is a pressing need for it, such as Prince William marrying a Catholic who refuses to give up her nasty papist background, it will never be given a high priority.

Duck's hoop

Folk always go banging on about how 'The English' have so much to answer for in the history of this country. Isn't it just a little narrow minded not to think about the way the citizens of England themselves were treated for centuries by their ruling class?

I know it sounds a little student bar chat, but surely it's a class issue disguised as something else.

Nationalism is a control method.

Dudess

That's a very good point - I remember Ken Loach saying, when The Wind That Shakes The Barley came out, one of the greatest tragedies of the conflict was that both the Irish and the Black & Tans and other poor and working class English people had far more in common than they realised seeing as they were both being ****ed over by the ruling elites.

blinding

Fratton Fred wrote: »

No one would argue against it, but I think things like the recession, Afghanistan, Swine Flu etc are all considered more important.

there are study groups trying to work out how to do it, you are talking a change to a country's constitution here, not just scrapping a law and the British constitution is a very complex thing in comparison to, for example, the Irish one.

The Irish one was written by a group of guys who sat down and thought logically and is changed by referendum when needed. the British one takes in acount English and Scottish constitutions that have evolved over 1000 years and not only incorporate all the mumbo jumbo of Monarchy, but also Parliament and the wranglings between Monarchy and Parliament.

It is not an overnight job and as i say, until there is a pressing need for it, such as Prince William marrying a Catholic who refuses to give up her nasty papist background, it will never be given a high priority.

You were doing so well for awhile there. Seriously I was reading your answer in agreement and then came across this.

Have a word with your self will ya.

ch750536

Hydroquinone wrote: »

Surely, if any country gets into the finals of any sort of world cup competition...

You misread me.

Always get behind the national team, they are representing you.

Don't burn effigies of a player because he got sent off.
Don't call managers 'turnip head' when they don't qualify.