National Postcodes to be introduced

antoinolachtnai

TheChizler wrote: »

As pointed out before 91% of the cost of lol emerging Eircode has been for integrating systems and license fees, if the system was free it would still cost over €24 million overall.

This is just not true.

The bad design of the system is what is going to drive all the costs.

A small-area based system would require a matter of days to code up, because all the addresses are already cross-referenced against small areas in geodirectory and some other address databases. Accurate or nearly accurate delivery to non-unique addresses would be inexpensive, maybe a million euros. Exact numbering of individual houses would take a bit longer, but it would be done accurately and correctly, and would provide a complete database at the same time, unhindered by intellectual property rights issues.

It would still need to be paid for. The right way to fud it is out of a charge for database changes for new developments, code changes and changes of ownership.

The buy-out licence fee is also basically unnecessary. It is only needed because of the design of the code which is needlessly tied to a proprietary database. There would be licensing and surveying fees, sure, but they would not need to be anything of that scale.

A hierarchical post code does nothing for multiple addresses within buildings, unless you add a field for height above ground or something at the expense of making the code longer. The advantage to making the post code primarily a property id is that there's no ambiguity when assigning, and a hierarchical code (grid coordinates) can be obtained from it by a single one-time look up. So best of both worlds really. The disadvantage of having to look up a database (if all you have is a code) when trying to find find a location can be overcome with a minute amount of planning.

It could be overcome if the database were freely distributable, sure. But it isn't. It's closed into a hopeless, unsustainable 'pay at the point of use' model.

The taxpayer will just have to pay for the waste.

ukoda

Do you think that from tomorrow when Ireland officially has its new postcode that we could maybe move on from the debate of what's the best postcode, or do we have a few years left of over and back discussions on what it could have been?


Anyone for a new thread purely about ericode?, so the launch, discussion on where it's used, new companies using it etc or are will that just get hijacked by "that wouldn't happen with loc8" type posts anytime anything goes wrong with a code

SpaceTime

Well it's obvious only one set of lobbyists were listened to.

Yeah, debating this is pointless now as its a launching in the morning and no alternative opinions were listened to or taken on board by officialdom, even those of the majority of freight and logistics companies.

Doesn't mean it's not a massive missed opportunity though.

I guess we're just stuck with it now.

ukoda

I wonder what ericode the Loc8 office in Cork will have!

They will be sick to their stomachs when they start to see their bank statements / Utilitiy bills and other letters come through the door with an eircode on them :O

Let's hope no rouge employee has made their code:

FUK Y3WS or
A55 H0L3

Bayberry

Bayberry wrote: »

you're wasting your time pointing out the obvious lies and/or stupidities in his arguments .

The trap is set

oscarBravo wrote: »

Where have I lied?

The bait is taken.

Bayberry wrote: »

Leave it be - it's easier for him to argue against a straw man that he put in your mouth, so you're wasting your time pointing out the obvious lies and/or stupidities in his arguments against points that were never made in the first place.

And the point is proven.

I was quite deliberate in my choice of phrase, because I was quite sure you wouldn't be able to resist refactoring my words by leaving out the ones that weaken your case.

It has been claimed that eircodes are flawed because they require a database lookup in order to determine an exact location - true or false?

"It has been claimed" - nice non specific weasel words there. Do you have a quote to back it up? Because my recall is quite different - "it has been claimed that eircode is useless" for certain specific uses that postcodes are often used for in other countries, because they require a database lookup to get the relevant amount of information for that particular usage of a postcode.

I could go though your other strawman arguments to demonstrate the point but why bother - you'd just claim that I said something else.

SPDUB

SpaceTime wrote: »

An Post also would have had more delivery areas in the past so for example in Cork there are now just two delivery offices.

.

As far as I know there is still 4 delivery areas just done from 2 offices .

I know that's definitely the case in Dublin where there's now at least 2 less delivery offices but the delivery areas haven't changed

SpaceTime

SPDUB wrote: »

As far as I know there is still 4 delivery areas just done from 2 offices .

I know that's definitely the case in Dublin where there's now at least 2 less delivery offices but the delivery areas haven't changed

From what I've seen of the codes from that brief leak via SEAI, it looks like the Southside is T12 and the Northside is T23. The outer suburbs/commuter towns are all T or P codes.

The 'Greater Cork Area' would have a lot more than just two codes though by the looks of it.

Trouwe Ier

ukoda wrote: »

Do you think that from tomorrow when Ireland officially has its new postcode that we could maybe move on from the debate of what's the best postcode, or do we have a few years left of over and back discussions on what it could have been?


Anyone for a new thread purely about ericode?, so the launch, discussion on where it's used, new companies using it etc or are will that just get hijacked by "that wouldn't happen with loc8" type posts anytime anything goes wrong with a code

Yes absolutely.

With between 12 and 24 hours left now (though none of us knows for sure) I imagine that there will be some controversy from local councillors in counties bordering large urban areas and that may hit the headlines tomorrow night.

It was bad enough blaming Eircode for the place name inaccuracies but some of those tweeting don't seem to know their postcode from their pylon. It's clear that they haven't really being following the process but jumped on the opportunity to publicise the place name issue . The following tweet has been retweeted on a number of occasions.

Up to 50,000 inaccuracies in basic list of placenames being used in the €27m #eirgrid system. #Gaeilge tuairisc.ie/dfheadfadh-sua… @CnaG

SpaceTime

Loc8 will still be *very* useful for non-postal-addresses though.

At least the two codes look significantly different enough not to be confused.

ukoda

SpaceTime wrote: »

Loc8 will still be *very* useful for non-postal-addresses though.

At least the two codes look significantly different enough not to be confused.

Only if you have a Garmin sat nav in your pocket or on your dash and only if you're lucky enough to part of the select few citizens that know it exists.

dr.fuzzenstein

SpaceTime wrote: »

Loc8 will still be *very* useful for non-postal-addresses though.

At least the two codes look significantly different enough not to be confused.

Well, it's not like Loc8 will be outlawed once Eircode is launched.

Trouwe Ier

From tomorrow's Irish Times -

1) This is not an Eircode-at-fault issue.
2) Places don't have Eircodes: addresses do!


http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/thousands-of-place-names-have-no-eircode-says-campaign-group-1.2282592

As many as 50,000 place-names in the Irish language will not have an Eircode when the new postal and location code system is launched on Monday, a campaign group has said.
Conradh na Gaeilge said there are thousands of inaccuracies and information gaps in the Eircode database. Its general secretary Julian de Spáinn has said the Irish version of many addresses will not be linked to their new Eircode.
Conradh said the problem was acknowledged by the Department of Communications earlier this year and a working group produced an action plan which laid out a programme over two years to resolve the situation at a cost of €200,000.
It has said the department is unwilling to sanction the expenditure.
A spokesman for the department said work on updating the Irish language version was ongoing and pointed out that people would not be required to change address from Irish to English. He also said the use of the postcode was not compulsory.

byrnefm

Curious .. I'm wondering if gocode.ie will be mentioned when Eircode is announced, as the 'solution' for getting an address location that Eircode doesn't cover? I get the impression it was created or from the same group who created Eircode?

larchill

So, the era of eircode is almost upon us - just an hour & a ½ to go. That is assuming 00:00hrs on 13/07/15 is the big moment. Maybe it'll not be until some big unveiling later tommorow after which time the thing goes live? Will this thread be redundant now, its being going since Sept 2009. So much of recent months has been given over to the endless loc8code vs eircode tit-for-tat! Will this stop now? Will a new thread be created to continue this spat! Of course we'll have a debate over the Routing Codes , what is to assigned to where etc. Here we go ...

irishgeo

larchill wrote: »

So, the era of eircode is almost upon us - just an hour & a ½ to go. That is assuming 00:00hrs on 13/07/15 is the big moment. Maybe it'll not be until some big unveiling later tommorow after which time the thing goes live? Will this thread be redundant now, its being going since Sept 2009. So much of recent months has been given over to the endless loc8code vs eircode tit-for-tat! Will this stop now? Will a new thread be created to continue this spat! Of course we'll have a debate over the Routing Codes , what is to assigned to where etc. Here we go ...

anyone stay awake till 12?

Hou1ie

It's live folks.....knock yourselves out

SpaceTime

Seems to look up fairly accurately.

Some very odd forms of addresses in Kerry though!

1 Any Street,
Dingle,
Tralee,
Co. Kerry
V92 ****

Since when has Dingle been in Tralee?!

Also in Donegal:

1 Any Street
Stranorlar
Lifford
Co. Donegal
F93 ****

I can't see people using those ridiculous 'post town' based addresses.

irishgeo

Hou1ie wrote: »

It's live folks.....knock yourselves out

[url]Http://Finder.eircode.ie[/url]

Mayo gets F

Seth Brundle

Leixlip (and presumably all of Kildare) is W

Seth Brundle

Looked up my work address (we've been there 18 months).
4 companies listed to choose from (along with the actual office address). None of the 4 are there now with two being related to the previous tenant company)

a65b2cd

map finder tool to get an eircode worked well, fast response times

GerardKeating

irishgeo wrote: »

[url]Http://Finder.eircode.ie[/url]

Mayo gets F

Galway (or at least South Connemara) is H

a65b2cd

kbannon wrote: »

Looked up my work address (we've been there 18 months).
4 companies listed to choose from (along with the actual office address). None of the 4 are there now with two being related to the previous tenant company)

It is the address that gets an Eircode not the company. If you can identify the Eircode then input that and see if your company is listed.

clewbays

I don't think this could have happened without PONCodes, TICodes, OpenPostCodes, Loc8, and GoCodes so thanks to those guys for their pioneering work in showing that more granular codes could be used.

ozmo

kbannon wrote: »

Looked up my work address -None of the 4 are there now

But are they all the same postcodes? All business's I've checked within the same building have the same postcodes.


Eg. if you look at the GPO - there is one dot on the building - 3 business's listed under the dot - all with the same postcode.

brandodub

Got mine and my family's code although being in Dublin we'll only have to memorize the last four elements of the new code.
Seems easy and reasonable

Grab All Association

Deleted

Our eircode address puts us in Westmeath, we live in Roscommon!

Edit: I've used the report an issue to notify them of the error, will be interesting to see how quickly or if it get changed.

D.L.R.

Dun Laoghaire (County Dublin) is, bizarrely, A96.

Swords is, bizarrely, K67.

Jesus the designers seem to have actively AVOIDED giving the rest of County Dublin a "D" prefix. Even though D25-D99 were all available.

Unfathomable...

:pac:

hognef

Naas, Johnstown, Kill are all W91, Leixlip is W23 and Newbridge is W12. Kildare Town and Kilcullen are R something. Wonder where the lower W's are... Seems to me they've deliberately spread out (randomized?) the routing keys, but why? And why several towns in the same routing key, if all or most of W (and R?) was available for Co. Kildare?