National Postcodes to be introduced

plodder

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Idiotic argument. It's the same as tweeting your phone number. If someone is stupid enough to do that (or write exactly what they think of their boss on Facebook), it's their own fault. Personal responsibility is not dead yet.
Maybe people should think before they tweet and having said that, that should be a general disclaimer on Twitter.

Yet it is actually happening ...

This is the usual response from people in IT who haven't thought through the implications of what they are doing (I know because I'm working in IT for 30 years)

The users get accused of being stupid, when in reality it's the programmers and designers who are stupid. By the way, I'm not saying we shouldn't have unique postcodes. I'm saying for the umpteenth time that the privacy implications are real, and need(ed) to be highlighted.

ukoda

plodder wrote: »

Yet it is actually happening ...

This is the usual response from people in IT who haven't thought through the implications of what they are doing (I know because I'm working in IT for 30 years)

The users get accused of being stupid, when in reality it's the programmers and designers who are stupid.

Sometimes the end user is just plain stupid tho.

GJG

plodder wrote: »

Yet it is actually happening ...

This is the usual response from people in IT who haven't thought through the implications of what they are doing (I know because I'm working in IT for 30 years)

The users get accused of being stupid, when in reality it's the programmers and designers who are stupid. By the way, I'm not saying we shouldn't have unique postcodes. I'm saying for the umpteenth time that the privacy implications are real, and need(ed) to be highlighted.

In almost every instance I would agree with you on that, but seriously, what would you do if you got a brief that said, "Please design a code to uniquely identify every property in the country, but be careful because some gobdaws might give it out inadvertently, so make sure that it can't be used to identify an individual property".

SpaceTime

People : please do not post your eircode or anyone else's on here. You're effectively publishing entire addresses due to the way the system works.

I've seen a few even over excitedly posting on Twitter with their full code!!

Any chance the mods could snip any codes posted ?

They're as or more sensitive info than your home landline number and may end up as a big part of applying for various things in the near future.

dr.fuzzenstein

plodder wrote: »

Yet it is actually happening ...

This is the usual response from people in IT who haven't thought through the implications of what they are doing (I know because I'm working in IT for 30 years)

The users get accused of being stupid, when in reality it's the programmers and designers who are stupid. By the way, I'm not saying we shouldn't have unique postcodes. I'm saying for the umpteenth time that the privacy implications are real, and need(ed) to be highlighted.

Well, the problem is, finding an individual address based on an Eircode is the core element of Eircode. It is what it was designed to do, first and foremost. The whole thing would be useless if that wasn't the case. So it's a case of FAD.

After 30 years in IT you should know that you can make it foolproof, but can you make it idiot proof? :P:D;)

Just found out my address is different to that of my neighbour, will have to get on to them...

murpho999

SpaceTime wrote: »

People : please do not post your eircode or anyone else's on here. You're effectively publishing entire addresses due to the way the system works.

I've seen a few even over excitedly posting on Twitter with their full code!!

Any chance the mods could snip any codes posted ?

They're as or more sensitive info than your home landline number and may end up as a big part of applying for various things in the near future.

I don't get why are people so secretive about their addresses? What is going to happen?

Are their houses also camouflaged?

Trouwe Ier

The "F" and "V" areas must be massive.

Between Dublin and Limerick, there seem to be "A"s, "K"s, "R"s and "E"s before you get to "V" but go as far again to West Kerry on far slower roads too and you are still in "V".

Did "V94" have to be as big?

loyatemu

Presumably it doesn't matter what address you put on an envelope - a letter addressed to:

Loyatemu
A63 XXXX

will get to me - right?

secondattempt

loyatemu wrote: »

Presumably it doesn't matter what address you put on an envelope - a letter addressed to:

Loyatemu
A63 XXXX

will get to me - right?

No because An Post refuse to use them. At least according to Brian Lucey today, postal workers won't use them...

plodder

GJG wrote: »

In almost every instance I would agree with you on that, but seriously, what would you do if you got a brief that said, "Please design a code to uniquely identify every property in the country, but be careful because some gobdaws might give it out inadvertently, so make sure that it can't be used to identify an individual property".

What would I have done? Two things:

1) make the code hierarchical so that it is actually useful for multiple purposes while being anonymous. Even within the current design it could have been done.

2) Distinguish between "postcode" (the first five characters anonymous) and "location code" the full seven characters. Educate people not to use the location code except for specific purposes like deliveries.

bk

murpho999 wrote: »

I don't get why are people so secretive about their addresses? What is going to happen?

Are their houses also camouflaged?

Imagine you post on Twitter that you are going on holidays with your entire family for a week and a monthly previously you had posted your Eircode. Well now someone could break into your house.

Or imagine you are a hot guy/girl and you post your Eircode on Twitter and suddenly you got stalkers.

Nothing wrong with giving your code to family, friends and business that you would otherwise give your full address too, but I would be very cautious about posting such sensitive information on the public or semi-private internet.

dr.fuzzenstein

loyatemu wrote: »

Presumably it doesn't matter what address you put on an envelope - a letter addressed to:

Loyatemu
A63 XXXX

will get to me - right?

Officially no, unofficially I don't see why not, unless An Post would make a point out of not delivering such letters.

SpaceTime

murpho999 wrote: »

I don't get why are people so secretive about their addresses? What is going to happen?

Are their houses also camouflaged?

Because it's going to be linked to other things you may have posted on here for example and linking a name, address, eircode etc can ultimately lead to ID theft.

With forums or social media, it risks stalkers.

Just not a great idea at all.

Particularly when you consider some of the psycho hate mail some pro gay marriage people got.

Or you mention your new telly, expensive smartphone, fancy new car and holiday plans etc etc and someone comes along to steal it...

Or, next thing you know you've someone applying for something using your details and online statements only etc

ukoda

secondattempt wrote: »

No because An Post refuse to use them. At least according to Brian Lucey today, postal workers won't use them...

Given that An Post will deliver pretty much anything and even solve puzzles to work out an address, they will no doubt still deliver your mail, however it's likely the sorting office will write the full address on the envelope to help the postman

murpho999

bk wrote: »

Imagine you post on Twitter that you are going on holidays with your entire family for a week and a monthly previously you had posted your Eircode. Well now someone could break into your house.

They could break in anyway.

Or imagine you are a hot guy/girl and you post your Eircode on Twitter and suddenly you got stalkers.

How would people know you're "hot" from your Twitter account.

Nothing wrong with giving your code to family, friends and business that you would otherwise give your full address too, but I would be very cautious about posting such sensitive information on the public or semi-private internet.

Really people coming up with extreme examples are just scare-mongering.

vicwatson

Anyone know what database they've taken adresses from as just checked mine and it's wrong on 2 lines !!

ukoda

Looks like the letters have issued too, few people on Twitter posting pics of them

ukoda

vicwatson wrote: »

Anyone know what database they've taken adresses from as just checked mine and it's wrong on 2 lines !!

GeoDirectory

loyatemu

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Officially no, unofficially I don't see why not, unless An Post would make a point out of not delivering such letters.

I guess it's going to cause a problem for the Postie who is unlikely to have memorised every code, and as discussed, they're non-sequential.

seamus

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Officially no, unofficially I don't see why not, unless An Post would make a point out of not delivering such letters.

At least for the first while, I can't see postmen wandering around with handhelds scanning codes to figure out which house is which.

For the purposes of automatically sorting and distributing the mail, the code will work just fine, but for the actual part where the postman is going door to door, the street address is far more efficient than the postcode.

So if you are going to insist on a short address, something like

Dr. Fuzzenstein
22 Fake Street
A12 TG67

Would be best.

vicwatson

ukoda wrote: »

GeoDirectory

Those idiots, ive told them multiple times that the details they have are wrong so obviously nevere bothered their arses to change it, grrr now I have to go fight with eircode, it's so annoying.....:mad:

SpaceTime

Sure my MPRN puts me in a totally different area and I've actually told ESB networks this several times and they just don't change it. It's ended up with all sorts of chaos when I change providers.

Wouldn't be surprised if these directories have errors. No idea where they gleaned the data from in the first place, other than maybe the postman ?

If you consider we moved into a house and it had a horrible house name that we changed. Didn't inform anyone of the change, yet it's correct on the eircode and an post databases..

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

plodder

A lot of people focusing on the bad addresses, wrong counties etc. While that is a bit of a red-herring in that you can continue to use your existing postal address, it does suggest that the routing key map are going to look quite interesting, and will bear little relationship to county boundaries.

GJG

SpaceTime wrote: »

Because it's going to be linked to other things you may have posted on here for example and linking a name, address, eircode etc can ultimately lead to ID theft.

With forums or social media, it risks stalkers.

Just not a great idea at all.

Particularly when you consider some of the psycho hate mail some pro gay marriage people got.

Or you mention your new telly, expensive smartphone, fancy new car and holiday plans etc etc and someone comes along to steal it...

Or, next thing you know you've someone applying for something using your details and online statements only etc

If you want to assess the likelihood of these events flowing from being able to uniquely identify a property, then we can look to how often they happen to the 60 per cent of properties that can already be uniquely identified in this country, or the 100 per cent of addresses that can be uniquely identified in, for example, the north - postcode + house/apartment number makes a unique identifier there.

Are you aware of anyone there suggesting that the problems are so severe that they warrant the abolition of their postcode?

dr.fuzzenstein

SpaceTime wrote: »

That's very unfair!

Academics think about abstract things and how to organise structured data if they've ever done any kind of heavy research (which they all invariably have).

He's quite well positioned to make a comment on a system tbh.

I would expect a more fair and balanced approach by him, bit of pro and con.

Tar.Aldarion

My address working well, and my work one, good stuff.

bk

murpho999 wrote: »

They could break in anyway.

They would rather break in when no one is at home.

Assault and kidnapping are much more serious offences then simple burglary.

And it doesn't even have to be an unknown thieve. It could just as easily be a less then scrupulous acquittance or colleague.

murpho999 wrote: »

How would people know you're "hot" from your Twitter account.

People post pictures on Twitter all the time!!

Plus people frequently link their Twitter/facebook account, with their Instagram account, etc.

murpho999 wrote: »

Really people coming up with extreme examples are just scare-mongering.

Nothing extreme about this, I can assure you that things like the above happen quiet frequently. Go talk to a victim of stalking and see if you still think it is scaremongering!

In school theses days they teach kids not to reveal too many personal details online. No phone number, home address, etc. It only make sense to include Eircodes in that.

Yggr of Asgard

All you naysayer are overlooking the most important benefit of this wonderful system:

Criminals will love it and use it and that keeps the law enforcement industry happy which is great news as it creates job security in the civil/public sector.

Sure it's because most idiots on twitter don't understand that posting their eircode and that they are on holidays might signal an invitation to criminals but hey...

And obviously the department of social protection, revenue and other snooping government organization are going to love it and use it, a real step into a population register when you combine it with the TV License, Property Tax, Revenue and other database. Soon your PPS will be linked to your Eircode and it will be tattooed onto your arm.

SpaceTime

Basically just think of it this way : you're posting your full address and a link to a map that directs people to your front door if you post your eircode.

If you're a business wanting visitors that's probably a great thing.

If you're a boards poster, it's most likely too much info.

BK: police, including the Gardai also warn now a and again to ensure you're aware that photos may include geolocation metadata embedded in the IPTC fields in the image files.

Plenty of issues with giving away the location of valuables and addresses without people realising.

Just take sensible precautions and don't post more info than you intend to!