C+H Sports Discussion Thread

sock puppet

Jay P wrote: »

But surely they can't be expected to do background checks on everyone they sell tickets to? If you apply the logic that the clubs should be punsihed, then surely if some of the troublesome supporters who bought tickets from ticketmaster, then ticketmaster should be punished also?

The only people at fault here are those idiot supporters. It's not the county board's fault, and it sure as hell isn't the Louth players' fault.

They should be responsible for the actions of their members yes. That's how it works in any sport I've been involved in. Why even let troublemakers buy tickets?

D4RK ONION

Bobalicious93 wrote: »

Kim Jong-Il does, I like to live by a set of principles similar to his...

Seriously bobby, are you some sort of younger clone of me?!

Jay P

sock puppet wrote: »

They should be responsible for the actions of their members yes. That's how it works in any sport I've been involved in. Why even let troublemakers buy tickets?

Again I'll ask:
Does this mean that clubs are expected to carry out detailed background checks on any prospective ticket buyer? And even if they did, how would they have predicted the scenes from yesterday? Stuff like that doesn't happen very regularly.

sock puppet

Jay P wrote: »

Again I'll ask:
Does this mean that clubs are expected to carry out detailed background checks on any prospective ticket buyer? And even if they did, how would they have predicted the scenes from yesterday? Stuff like that doesn't happen very regularly.

It doesn't really matter how they stop it, the point is that they're responsible for their members. You seem to think that this is unfair or unusual. The GAA have banned clubs before for this.

And this sort of thing happens all the time in the GAA too. They have to stamp it out.

randylonghorn

sock puppet wrote: »

It doesn't really matter how they stop it, the point is that they're responsible for their members. You seem to think that this is unfair or unusual. The GAA have banned clubs before for this.

It may not be unusual, but it is unfair. What's more, it's a lazy solution, unimaginative and indicating an organisation which is lacking the guts to deal with individual incidents and offenders in an appropriate manner.

If a club has given tickets to supporters with a history of causing trouble, you may have some case. Even at that, I would argue that the club should be punished for its negligence by having its ticket allocation severely reduced for a set period, rather than having the whole club banned, and that the main focus should still be on the individuals concerned.

We live in a society which is based on individual liberties, rights and responsibilities.

We either like it that way, and adhere to those principles, or we change it ... but it is important to realise that the principles under discussion here have ramifications and indeed implications well outside the world of sport, let alone the GAA.

One of the arguments the sporting bodies generally make when they draw down relatively large sums of money from government is that they help to educate young people in citizenship and civic responsibility.

It should therefore be incumbent upon them to exercise governance of their own affairs in a manner which is in keeping with and which promotes that philosophy and the principles upon which this state is built, not one which undermines them.

Sorry, Bob, but I for one do not wish to live in North Korea!!

sock puppet

randylonghorn wrote: »

It may not be unusual, but it is unfair. What's more, it's a lazy solution, unimaginative and indicating an organisation which is lacking the guts to deal with individual incidents and offenders in an appropriate manner.

If a club has given tickets to supporters with a history of causing trouble, you may have some case. Even at that, I would argue that the club should be punished for its negligence by having its ticket allocation severely reduced for a set period, rather than having the whole club banned, and that the main focus should still be on the individuals concerned.

We live in a society which is based on individual liberties, rights and responsibilities.

We either like it that way, and adhere to those principles, or we change it ... but it is important to realise that the principles under discussion here have ramifications and indeed implications well outside the world of sport, let alone the GAA.

One of the arguments the sporting bodies generally make when they draw down relatively large sums of money from government is that they help to educate young people in citizenship and civic responsibility.

It should therefore be incumbent upon them to exercise governance of their own affairs in a manner which is in keeping with and which promotes that philosophy and the principles upon which this state is built, not one which undermines them.

Sorry, Bob, but I for one do not wish to live in North Korea!!

How is it lazy? There is simply no other way to stop fan violence other than punishing the clubs. It happens all over the world and it is effective. Look at PSG's efforts to combat violence. They took those steps because they were forced to. The GAA, IRFU, FA, UEFA etc all do it as a way of preventing this kind of behaviour.

The only thing the GAA themselves can do to curb violence is to put up barriers and increase security. It doesn't get to the root of the problem though. The only people in the position to stop it are those running the clubs. All the GAA can do is punish the clubs who step out of line.

Though if these are just guys with a passing interest in the sport and went up for the day then yeah you couldn't do that.

msbrightside

Turns out Meath aren't giving Louth a replay after all.
Suppose it was expected since they didn't come to a decision last night.

sock puppet

Ha I just read that the referee said he was about to give a penalty if Meath didn't score. What a load of ****. First of all he makes a mistake which is understandable but he's now trying to play down the gravity of his error. Also as far as I know, once advantage is played in football the referee cannot call play back for the offence.

Digits

Limerick hurling cheifs have appiointed a panel to search for their new hurling manager...said on the news a re-appiontment of Justin McCarthy is not ruled out either. :pac:

DylanS09

Digits wrote: »

Limerick hurling cheifs have appiointed a panel to search for their new hurling manager...said on the news a re-appiontment of Justin McCarthy is not ruled out either. :pac:

Yay!
We'll have the Championship won by the end of next year so??

soccymonster

I'm sad now

Poor Louth.
Best thing they can do is move on and prepare for the qualifiers.
Although I'd expect this to damage them psychologically.
Unless the manager can use this as motivation to drive them on. He seems to be playing the victim card here though so I'm not quite sure.

If Limerick meet Meath along the way, we'll give them what we dished out in '08

Digits wrote: »

Limerick hurling cheifs have appiointed a panel to search for their new hurling manager...said on the news a re-appiontment of Justin McCarthy is not ruled out either. :pac:

Justin's term is up.
Surely he can't be re-appointed after that.
Sure Richie Bennis got us to an AI final, beating Tipp and Waterford along the way. Then we were out in the qualifiers the next year. What happened then *boot*

So Justin has to go. Like seriously.

u21's match against Clare tomorrow.
Many recognizable faces from the senior team this year.
I expect many great things from young declan hannon seeing as he's starting in the number 12 shirt tomorrow :P

DylanS09

soccymonster wrote: »

I'm sad now

Poor Louth.
Best thing they can do is move on and prepare for the qualifiers.
Although I'd expect this to damage them psychologically.
Unless the manager can use this as motivation to drive them on. He seems to be playing the victim card here though so I'm not quite sure.

If Limerick meet Meath along the way, we'll give them what we dished out in '08




Justin's term is up.
Surely he can't be re-appointed after that.
Sure Richie Bennis got us to an AI final, beating Tipp and Waterford along the way. Then we were out in the qualifiers the next year. What happened then *boot*

So Justin has to go. Like seriously.

u21's match against Clare tomorrow.
Many recognizable faces from the senior team this year.
I expect many great things from young declan hannon seeing as he's starting in the number 12 shirt tomorrow :P

Do you know that Declan Hannon doesn't even take the frees for his school team.. o_O

soccymonster

DylanS09 wrote: »

Do you know that Declan Hannon doesn't even take the frees for his school team.. o_O

mhm.. John Fitz does.
Hannon takes them for the Adare seniors though.
He is preety good on them. But John Fitz is just as good especially when it comes down to nerve wrecking frees.

I don't hold much hope seeing as they're up against AI champions but y'never know.
The senior experience added with home advantage could come in handy.

DylanS09

soccymonster wrote: »

mhm.. John Fitz does.
Hannon takes them for the Adare seniors though.
He is preety good on them. But John Fitz is just as good especially when it comes down to nerve wrecking frees.

I don't hold much hope seeing as they're up against AI champions but y'never know.
The senior experience added with home advantage could come in handy.

Ok you no waaaay more about the dude than I do...Why am I not surprised!:P

randylonghorn

sock puppet wrote: »

How is it lazy? There is simply no other way to stop fan violence other than punishing the clubs. It happens all over the world and it is effective. Look at PSG's efforts to combat violence. They took those steps because they were forced to. The GAA, IRFU, FA, UEFA etc all do it as a way of preventing this kind of behaviour.

The only thing the GAA themselves can do to curb violence is to put up barriers and increase security. It doesn't get to the root of the problem though. The only people in the position to stop it are those running the clubs. All the GAA can do is punish the clubs who step out of line.
.

I've never much gone with the argument "it happens all over the world" as making something just, right or even effective tbh.

As to what the GAA can do, I've answered that in my first post on this subject. Ban the supporters involved for life. Hand the videotapes over to AGS and ask them to press charges. I counted at least 10 people pushing the referee. If the referee with GAA backing insist that they are charged with assault, they will be. Let them end up with a record, a hefty fine, even a few nights in jail preferably. Then it's up to the GAA to publicise that as widely as possible, and let the word go out that a tough line will be taken. We're lucky enough in Ireland that this hasn't become a major problem as yet ... NOW is the time to deal with it, fairly and toughly, to ensure that it doesn't.

sock puppet wrote: »

Though if these are just guys with a passing interest in the sport and went up for the day then yeah you couldn't do that.

And that is the other major issue, apart from the issues of justice and fairness.

I deliberately didn't bring it up because in all fairness I don't think it applies as strongly to GAA as to other scenarios ... most people who pay to go to GAA matches have at least some interest, and above all, this being Ireland, most live in communities surrounded by those who are interested, which exerts a pressure in itself.

It's a real problem with other sports though, especially soccer, e.g. in England. Studies by both the police and by other interested bodies have shown a sizable minority of "fans" who go to matches just to get embroiled in violence ... they wear the jersey more to establish "sides" than because of any real loyalty to a club, or, indeed, to the national side. Some have been shown to be associated with the BNP and similar organisations, some are just hoodlums without even that pretence at an agenda.

That's where the distribution method for tickets becomes very important ... if this problem continues, there will be no choice but that all tickets for matches be distributed through clubs and very carefully monitored. And yes, clubs should be punished if those who source tickets through them cause problems ... because they are then guilty of something, even if it is negligence rather than the actual assault / violence ... but not by banning the club though. If someone is involved in a fracas who has no previous history, impose a milder sanction on the club ... e.g. half ticket allocation for the following year (obviously, the severity of the offense would also be relevant). If a club has given a ticket to someone with a history, or if ticket-holders from one club continually cause problems, a much more severe sanction should be imposed. A hefty fine and a few years without tickets for the big matches will soon teach clubs to be more careful.

The major sanctions should be targetted where they belong though ... at the troublemakers themselves.

Don't ban clubs / counties / teams from playing though for the sins of a few isolated supporters.

As I said, that's as if either you or I went out to-night, got pished, and hit someone, and our whole families were sent to jail as a result.

suitcasepink

DylanS09 wrote: »

Ok you no waaaay more about the dude than I do...Why am I not surprised!:P

Srsly ask her anything... She'll be able to answer it!!
In other sporting news Thomas Ryan is back training with the Waterford seniors this week! yayyyyy \o/

Digits

Sean Og out.:( Looks like Ray Ryan will come in instead.

soccymonster

Digits wrote: »

Sean Og out.:( Looks like Ray Ryan will come in instead.

Ray Ryan....Ray Ryan...
He was the captain of the "B" team, yea?
Is there many still on the county panel from that team?

Professey Chin

Digits wrote: »

Sean Og out.:( Looks like Ray Ryan will come in instead.

Free reign for Kevin Moran/Eoin Kelly(god knows what way that hf line will be) then :pac:

suitcasepink

Digits wrote: »

Sean Og out.:( Looks like Ray Ryan will come in instead.

Im not sure if Im happy or sad!
On one hand Sean Og not starting is great but he defo wasnt fully fit last week and I thought he was pretty average... Though Ray Ryan wasnt great when he came on.
What about moving Tom Kenny back and putting someone else in midfield?
Aside from that Cussen for O Connor(think hes injured too) and Diarmuids brother for Fraggie and I think yee'd beat Waterford

Professey Chin

deise_girl wrote: »

Im not sure if Im happy or sad!
On one hand Sean Og not starting is great but he defo wasnt fully fit last week and I thought he was pretty average... Though Ray Ryan wasnt great when he came on.
What about moving Tom Kenny back and putting someone else in midfield?
Aside from that Cussen for O Connor(think hes injured too) and Diarmuids brother for Fraggie and I think yee'd beat Waterford

You hush! :mad:

suitcasepink

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

You hush! :mad:

Lets hope Denis Walsh doesnt read boards C&H :P

soccymonster

I wasn't impressed by Fraggie last week anyways.
So I'd agree with ya on that deise.
Cussen, well he's a beast of a man and his height, woaaah. But maybe keep him in reserve. I dunno, I just think he is really good when he comes off the bench and can make a real impact on the game as he usually does.
But I'd say I'm alone in that

suitcasepink

soccymonster wrote: »

I wasn't impressed by Fraggie last week anyways.
So I'd agree with ya on that deise.
Cussen, well he's a beast of a man and his height, woaaah. But maybe keep him in reserve. I dunno, I just think he is really good when he comes off the bench and can make a real impact on the game as he usually does.
But I'd say I'm alone in that

Tbf Fraggie is always kinda mehh... Like he can have an amazing game, but he can be pretty awful then, kinda like that fella that retired this year for 'em Timmy McCarthy. He started every game but was always like the first one subbed :P

Cussen has the power to destroy us tbh >.< In the league he got like 2-5 off Lawlor/O Brien whoever he was on and he looked dangerous off the bench..

I *think* we could take them though, just need Brick being really amazing on Cussen, Lawlor to not touch the ball and just annoy Aisake all during the game again, Connors and Murphy were pretty solid and you couldnt fault Tony..
Moran needs to have a good game though as does Foley, Sully and Kelly.
Mullane will do great as usual...
Ill set out the candles Friday night for my all night vigil of prayer, I wanna see us get another cup a proper cup this year

Digits

deise_girl wrote: »

Im not sure if Im happy or sad!
On one hand Sean Og not starting is great but he defo wasnt fully fit last week and I thought he was pretty average... Though Ray Ryan wasnt great when he came on.
What about moving Tom Kenny back and putting someone else in midfield?
Aside from that Cussen for O Connor(think hes injured too) and Diarmuids brother for Fraggie and I think yee'd beat Waterford

Would prefer to see Cussen used as an impact sum myself ...maybe push Naughton into the forwards and bring in Lorcan MgLoughlan into midfield.

Always believed Paudie should be in for Fraggie but cant see Walsh doing that tbh.

Digits

deise_girl wrote: »

Tbf Fraggie is always kinda mehh... Like he can have an amazing game, but he can be pretty awful then, kinda like that fella that retired this year for 'em Timmy McCarthy. He started every game but was always like the first one subbed :P

Ah but ya had to start him after having the balls to wear that 'bucket helmet' a few years back as we called it.:pac:

rebel girl 15

soccymonster wrote: »

Ray Ryan....Ray Ryan...
He was the captain of the "B" team, yea?
Is there many still on the county panel from that team?

Ryan shouldn't be starting at all. Either 1 -bring Shane O Neill or Brian Murphy (he was played there a number of times in the league) out to the wing and put in Shane Murphy into the corner or 2 - Tom Kenny to wing back and McLoughlin into midfield. I'd prefer to see option 1 with O Neill out on the wing.

suitcasepink

Digits wrote: »

Ah but ya had to start him after having the balls to wear that 'bucket helmet' a few years back as we called it.:pac:

:eek:
This helmet sounds brilliant I dont remember it at all!
I only know that dashing white one he was wearing last year and probs the year before.. :P
Is McCarthy like a big name in Cork, coz yee had 3 McCarthys in the forward line!

soccymonster

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Ryan shouldn't be starting at all. Either 1 -bring Shane O Neill or Brian Murphy (he was played there a number of times in the league) out to the wing and put in Shane Murphy into the corner or 2 - Tom Kenny to wing back and McLoughlin into midfield. I'd prefer to see option 1 with O Neill out on the wing.

Yea, I was just repeating his name like I was thinking.
Not chanting him to be started :pac:

Ah.. anyone think it'll be packed? (even though the 7pm throw in is a let down)
Because my da is thinking about it. But sure after last weeks 2nd half, this could be a good one.

And deise, don't forget Justin McCarthy.........................

rebel girl 15

soccymonster wrote: »

Yea, I was just repeating his name like I was thinking.
Not chanting him to be started :pac:

Ah.. anyone think it'll be packed? (even though the 7pm throw in is a let down)
Because my da is thinking about it. But sure after last weeks 2nd half, this could be a good one.

I doubt it tbh - don't think it was packed last week, and the football is on the Sunday. Its too expensive for people when you throw in club matches as well