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'Welfare scrounge' family fumes over benefits story
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As infurritating as it is, its ultimately the sytems fault! as has been mentioned after 2 kids, the benefits should stop. People shouldnt be bringing kids into the world due to the knowledge they will be pocketing an extra "x" amount of euro per month in child benefit. The people you want to discourage from having kids are they social welfare milkers, child beefit, medical card, free state education, rent allowance bla bla bla bla bla. AFAIC people who have just been laid off should receive higher welfare payment for the first say 6 months, then maybe bring that down a bit for the next 6 months, but after a year an absolute subsistence rate of something around €100. What is happening here has happened in other countries before, Germany being one. They need to trun the tables and start rewarding those who work and not rewarding those who dont. I read recently that a US state only supported child care payments for the first 2 kinds, after that it was nothing. IMO the state would be better spending the money on child hood education, area regeneration etc than a generation of spongers 18 years down the line...0
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What changes would the IMF make if brought in??0
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What changes would the IMF make if brought in??
They'd start by cutting welfare and public servant pay by about 50% to get it back into the real world.
Then about 40-50% of public servant would be let go, all the quangos would be shut down and transport, healthcare and education would be devestated.
We should just copy a welfare system from some other EU country where it actually works and implement it accross the board with immediate effect. Make it the recipients problem to reapply for everything and maybe it'll work then.0 -
Like Spain where it dosen't exist.Cookie_Monster wrote: »We should just copy a welfare system from some other EU country where it actually works0 -
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The “breeder” class have more children to get extra reward points when seeking a free house. I.e. if 10 lone parents with 2 children each are on welfare, living in what is considered unsuitable accommodation, for 5 years and another lone parent, on welfare for 2 years, has 4 kids, the 4 kid family will be at the top of the housing list.
Then later when they find love and start earning, i.e. when their common-law husband officially returns, they are afforded the opportunity to buy the house for knock-down prices, rent to buy schemes. Now granted they can’t sell for 10 years without owing the council the profit, but say you got housed in Blackrock in 1990, bought it for cost from the council at 50K max, you sold it in 2001 for €450,000 minimum. This has become a learned lifestyle choice amongst the “breeder” class. 400k is a nice nest egg to have built up after 10 years! It’s how many moved into the publican business on the Spanish Costas.
And we cannot do anything about it, if you take a hard line and refuse to allow them to buy the accommodation, you get Fatima Mansions, Ballymun etc. respect for community is born out of ownership. So indeed it is “social insurance”!
Even if we were to stop all child allowance and medical benefits after a second child as they do in China, the qualification process for free houses ( they are free, the rent is handed to them in allowances) will still encourage the breeding of litters. One or two kids mean insecure private rented accommodation, 3 + kids means you’re on the gravy! What mother wouldn’t want this for her children?
I honestly cannot see how this learned survival mechanism can be reversed?0 -
Run_to_da_hills wrote: »Like Spain where it dosen't exist.
Actually, it does and has had for some time.0 -
Run_to_da_hills wrote: »Like Spain where it dosen't exist.Actually, it does and has had for some time.
Why let facts ruin a thread.0 -
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Cookie_Monster wrote: »They'd start by cutting welfare and public servant pay by about 50% to get it back into the real world.
Then about 40-50% of public servant would be let go, all the quangos would be shut down and transport, healthcare and education would be devestated.
We should just copy a welfare system from some other EU country where it actually works and implement it accross the board with immediate effect. Make it the recipients problem to reapply for everything and maybe it'll work then.
In fairness, I think thats a fairly heavy handed assessment. Is it not the job of the IMF to stabilize economies in trouble, not decimate them further?
Granted, the first throat to be cut would be the public sector wage bill, but you wouldnt see anything in the order of 40-50%. They're principal job is to get countries back in order again, not send them spiralling further down the sh*t pipe.0 -
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How is the <worst paid ever> IT guy paying €1k tax on €2,667 monthly pay?
But yeah - the others are taking the piss, and it's the kids* I feel sorry for.
*AKA - Revenue Stream0 -
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How is the <worst paid ever> IT guy paying €1k tax on €2,667 monthly pay?
But yeah - the others are taking the piss, and it's the kids* I feel sorry for.
*AKA - Revenue Stream
I think the best idea so far is to give full dole only to those immediately made redundant and then reduce it over time. Subsistence level after the first year, give food vouchers instead of child allowance and cap the amount of children who will recieve benefit at 2 so that anymore than that are not economically profitable.
I think there needs to be a shift in mindset away from bleeding heart liberal bs of 'won't someone please think of the children' where we currently are. The situation now rewards a total lack of responsibility and leads to more and more children whose parents are incapable of providing for them. Meanwhile responsible couples or single people who work and put off having children until they are financially able to support them end up indirectly supporting those that belong to irresponsible and lazy parents. The story above is pretty sickening - the sense of 'absolute entitlement' that some people have is staggering.0 -
IMF would go mental here.
Unlike FF, FG, Lab and company, they do not need to get elected or re-elected. They would be untouchable in their decisions.
They would say to all cops, nurses, teachers - you work for us now - take €26,500 or f**k off.
Dole would be slashed too. This thread story, you can be sure, wouldn't exist.
They would pump money in like they did in Latvia and set down a detailed recipe how to get it back - e.g. you are now a pharma/bioscience country and the entire machinery of state would be turned around to facilitate this. Sovereignty would be out the window.0 -
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Yes yes you are clever and cool, everyone likes you. Now can you leave the pedantry out of the thread ? Would that be asking too much ?
Yes I am clever and some degree cool , maybe a little pedantic but I find it helps to have some degree of knowledge on matters before you go throwing your 2 cents in , there are plenty of keyboard warriors on here who will type before thinking.
The family involved here have done nothing wrong they have claimed benefits due to them as per the policies outlined by the people who govern this country . Yes they are extraordainary and yes they are excessive but no more than any other person who will claim what is due to them i.e high earners with a good accountant. I work hard for a living , I pay my taxes , I even give to charity , but if the day comes that I would be better off not working I will take back the 40/ 50 hours I put in a week and claim the entitlements that are there for me. I would be stupid not to , why continue to work and make money for someone when you would have a better standard of living by not working. I know that the whole arguement is that why should people be better off not working than working , that social welfare payments should be reduced , I think that is bolloxs , people are entitled to a standard of life. something that this country should be proud of. Yes people should be better off working but that shouldn't mean that they unlucky enough not to have jobs should have any decent standard of living removed by cuts in social welfare entitlements far in excess of any cuts people in employment have to endure. Take for example America and I spent a lot of time over there , no work and you are out on your ass on the streets , no work, no health insurance , then fcuk you if you get sick your dead. Is this the kind of country we want , not for me.
The system is there to be milked , it is the case , the system has been milked and not just by a few social welfare receipients , but by the people ,who idiots continue to vote in , and their buddies in the banks and building industries. Where is the outcry of emotion and screams of foul when the government announce bailouts for all insundry as long as there is a benefit to them .
I assume that anyone who has read this thread know of someone who is milking the system , be it the single mother claiming while living with her OH or the bloke down the road who signs on and works for the local businessman , the Polish bloke who flys into sign on and flys back to Poland on the same day. FFS we all know of these people yet they continue to get away with it . Some people will report these cases , some will continue to turn a blind eye. To me I say live and let live because if anything this recession has thought me is that we are all been made cnuts of and it starts at the very top .
If you have an issue with people that you think are getting away with milking the system then report them , let the people who make the rules decide whether they are or not . If you can't report them then shut up and look after your own corner. If you can report them then go that extra step and raise your voice to do something about the bandits running the whole circus.
I for one will continue to do so and at the moment it is to continue working , if sometime in the future I need to do something else to make ends meet then I will do so and will pass no apology to anyone for it.
One other thing who gives anyone the right to tell people how many kids they should have or find fault with the size of their family . Jesus wept that is communist China , not Ireland . Cop on.0 -
IMF would go mental here.
Unlike FF, FG, Lab and company, they do not need to get elected or re-elected. They would be untouchable in their decisions.
They would say to all cops, nurses, teachers - you work for us now - take €26,500 or f**k off.
Dole would be slashed too. This thread story, you can be sure, wouldn't exist.
They would pump money in like they did in Latvia and set down a detailed recipe how to get it back - e.g. you are now a pharma/bioscience country and the entire machinery of state would be turned around to facilitate this. Sovereignty would be out the window.
Would they though?
I mean, would they also force down the cost of living with it? how about all the financial committments those individuals had but could no longer afford as a result of the cuts? and what of all the property that was seized as a result of all those people no longer being able to service their loans? who would buy that? It sounds like it would be one big domino effect.0 -
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The family involved here have done nothing wrong they have claimed benefits due to them as per the policies outlined by the people who govern this country . Yes they are extraordainary and yes they are excessive but no more than any other person who will claim what is due to them i.e high earners with a good accountant. I work hard for a living , I pay my taxes , I even give to charity , but if the day comes that I would be better off not working I will take back the 40/ 50 hours I put in a week and claim the entitlements that are there for me. I would be stupid not to , why continue to work and make money for someone when you would have a better standard of living by not working. I know that the whole arguement is that why should people be better off not working than working , that social welfare payments should be reduced , I think that is bolloxs , people are entitled to a standard of life. something that this country should be proud of. Yes people should be better off working but that shouldn't mean that they unlucky enough not to have jobs should have any decent standard of living removed by cuts in social welfare entitlements far in excess of any cuts people in employment have to endure. Take for example America and I spent a lot of time over there , no work and you are out on your ass on the streets , no work, no health insurance , then fcuk you if you get sick your dead. Is this the kind of country we want , not for me.
Is it not a condition of welfare that you be actively looking for work, and you only leave a current job for genuine reasons (lay-off, contract expired etc.)?0 -
Is it not a condition of welfare that you be actively looking for work, and you only leave a current job for genuine reasons (lay-off, contract expired etc.)?
You are correct , easily fixed by sending out CV's or placing it on a Jobseekers website , you don't want to work you make haims of the interview . As for your second point as in most jobs you are reveiwed each year , a steady decline in performance will quickly open that door. A review is basically a job interview . Saying that work is always the first preference but only if it is worthwhile.
Example you get €100 a week for working , you get €80 a week for not working , then its a no brainer. It is why I beleive people who work should be rewarded but not having a job should not mean you suffer exrteme poverty or a shiit poor standard of life. The rates of social welfare I beleive are fair but any excessive cuts would not be right and will only harm the country more.0 -
In other words, cheating the system, therefore they have done wrong. In any case, the father in the story admitted to leaving work voluntarily as in resigning as opposed to being kicked out.0
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This sort of logic also annoys me, it is like he considers tax to be simply a savings fund, the the SSIA scheme. You pay into some account for 10 years and then at the end of it you collect it and go on holidays with your winnings. It is like the tax paid for nothing else other than a fund for him to dip into, and he thinks he is entitled to every penny back. The travel expenses would be a lot more if he had not paid for the roads etc.But he is at pains to point out that he paid his taxes for 10 years....
His salary of €32,000 a year is their only income; his wife stays at home to care for their five children. Once tax and PRSI are taken into account, and his €244 in travel expenses deducted (that's the monthly cost of a return train ticket to work each day), he gets €1,900 into his hand. The €941 child benefit brings his income to €2,841, still less than the Harte's €3,000-plus.
I wonder if people like this ever wonder why the tax is so high in the first place, it needs to be to support fellow able bodied freeloaders. Robbing Peter to pay Paul, a vicious circle and the non-freeloaders can feel hard done by, so just join in.0 -
Ok i would like to make this post..I Am Gerard Harte..it is my family you are slating!!! and you people do not have the proper facts..there is an old saying "do not believe everything you read"Yes i am on welfare at the moment but its not something i am proud of but the papers of this country having printed a complete pack of lies and i will be going further about it..i didnt want to reply to this thread but i feel now i need to let the people of Eire know the facts!!! since i was 16 years of age i have been out there..breaking my ba!!s like any other man ..bringing in an income to support my family,,i have always worked and 5 of my 6 kids were NOT brought up on state benifits!!!i am not a sponge i have never asked for charity or help from anyone..unfortunatly at this moment in life i have found myself in a bad situation..i was working for 10 years at one point i held down 3 diff jobs to ensure my kids didnt go without..my last job i had to quit as my wife was very ill and at home with 5 young kids its not that i wanted to go on the dole its at the time it was my only option..what would you people have me do?? continue to work and watch my family suffer ..my wife suffered very bad depression and also needed to have an operation..i did the right thing..i gave up work to take care of my wife and kids..yet im condemmed for this..i am currently seeking work im just finding it impossible like many other men in this country..as for this bull that i have 5 tellys and laptops and 2 cars its all crap..i have 1 telly which i bought for 400 quid of a mate who was moving to uk..my wife has a laptop yes which i got her a few years ago for a birthday present..is that bad?? does that make me a bad person..every one of you who made comments here about me own a laptop and as i said i wasnt always unemployed..and as for you who say im looking for a free home..ive never said that..i dont want a free home..i want a bit of stability for my kids..how many of you out there have had to watch your wife and kids in tears as their packing up years after year because a landlord has sold up..how many of you have kids who have no friends as there never in 1 place long enuff to make any..do you have any idea what its like to sit up night after night watching your wife break down in tears and not be able to tell her its ok love il fix it..because by christ ive tried..im registered with fas and monster.ie im looking for work..i want to bring in an icome for my family..as for this amount of money we are on..all crap too..im claiming for my wife and kids at the moment..i get 480 per week for 8 of us..we do NOT get rent allownce ..we pay our rent ourselves..we do not ask for charity we do not expect handouts...A single bloke living at home with his mammy..no bills no food to buy..fed and found gets €203 per week i get over double that for a family of 8..yet you critisise me?? you have all made up your minds about me without knowing the real story..its a shame that you throw stones when your blind to the real story...my children have been affected enuff by all this negative publicity i would ask you have some consideration and stop all this nastiness
Gerard Harte0 -
rubadub wrote:This sort of logic also annoys me, it is like he considers tax to be simply a savings fund, the the SSIA scheme. You pay into some account for 10 years and then at the end of it you collect it and go on holidays with your winnings. It is like the tax paid for nothing else other than a fund for him to dip into, and he thinks he is entitled to every penny back. The travel expenses would be a lot more if he had not paid for the roads etc.
I wonder if people like this ever wonder why the tax is so high in the first place, it needs to be to support fellow able bodied freeloaders. Robbing Peter to pay Paul, a vicious circle and the non-freeloaders can feel hard done by, so just join in.
You're mixing people up there. It's the freeloader who's saying he paid taxes for 10 years and is now entitled to live off the State. It's the IT worker who's the one with the travel expenses etc.0 -
In other words, cheating the system, therefore they have done wrong. In any case, the father in the story admitted to leaving work voluntarily as in resigning as opposed to being kicked out.
He left work , because of his wife. Yes maybe he knew before hand the system is there to be milked ,but my point is that on the benefits side he has done nothing wrong , he has claimed what is due to him as layed out by the laws of the country.
Me I enjoy working and am thankful of having a job , but if ever the time came that I was as well off to not be working then I will go and claim whats there. That to me is a failing of the system to which I contribute by paying my taxes.0 -
Me I enjoy working and am thankful of having a job , but if ever the time came that I was as well off to not be working then I will go and claim whats there. That to me is a failing of the system to which I contribute by paying my taxes.
And you would be doing so illegally, regardless of whether or not you get caught, or they can be bothered checking up on your reasons for leaving. There is a question on the dole form which asks about the circumstances of you leaving your job, so you'd have to lie in this section in order to claim benefits.0 -
celticbhoy2009 wrote: »Ok i would like to make this post..I Am Gerard Harte..it is my family you are slating!!! and you people do not have the proper facts..there is an old saying "do not believe everything you read"Yes i am on welfare at the moment but its not something i am proud of but the papers of this country having printed a complete pack of lies and i will be going further about it..i didnt want to reply to this thread but i feel now i need to let the people of Eire know the facts!!! since i was 16 years of age i have been out there..breaking my ba!!s like any other man ..bringing in an income to support my family,,i have always worked and 5 of my 6 kids were NOT brought up on state benifits!!!i am not a sponge i have never asked for charity or help from anyone..unfortunatly at this moment in life i have found myself in a bad situation..i was working for 10 years at one point i held down 3 diff jobs to ensure my kids didnt go without..my last job i had to quit as my wife was very ill and at home with 5 young kids its not that i wanted to go on the dole its at the time it was my only option..what would you people have me do?? continue to work and watch my family suffer ..my wife suffered very bad depression and also needed to have an operation..i did the right thing..i gave up work to take care of my wife and kids..yet im condemmed for this..i am currently seeking work im just finding it impossible like many other men in this country..as for this bull that i have 5 tellys and laptops and 2 cars its all crap..i have 1 telly which i bought for 400 quid of a mate who was moving to uk..my wife has a laptop yes which i got her a few years ago for a birthday present..is that bad?? does that make me a bad person..every one of you who made comments here about me own a laptop and as i said i wasnt always unemployed..and as for you who say im looking for a free home..ive never said that..i dont want a free home..i want a bit of stability for my kids..how many of you out there have had to watch your wife and kids in tears as their packing up years after year because a landlord has sold up..how many of you have kids who have no friends as there never in 1 place long enuff to make any..do you have any idea what its like to sit up night after night watching your wife break down in tears and not be able to tell her its ok love il fix it..because by christ ive tried..im registered with fas and monster.ie im looking for work..i want to bring in an icome for my family..as for this amount of money we are on..all crap too..im claiming for my wife and kids at the moment..i get 480 per week for 8 of us..we do NOT get rent allownce ..we pay our rent ourselves..we do not ask for charity we do not expect handouts...A single bloke living at home with his mammy..no bills no food to buy..fed and found gets €203 per week i get over double that for a family of 8..yet you critisise me?? you have all made up your minds about me without knowing the real story..its a shame that you throw stones when your blind to the real story...my children have been affected enuff by all this negative publicity i would ask you have some consideration and stop all this nastiness
Gerard Harte
Ok Gerard
once again you "forgot" to mention all the facts
*How much do you receive in children's allowance?
*do you all have medical cards and free heathcare?
*do you get all them nice welfare extras like heating oil etc?
* is it true that you went on holiday recently?
* how many year you were out of work? and your wife??
* if you are living on the "breadline" then why make more kids? kids are expensive to bring up
and
*who is paying for your internet?
i worked since i was 16 too in some very tough jobs and yes working 3 jobs, been there done that, nearly went gray from stress
me to pay in excess of 20k tax last year, how do you think people like me feel when we read things like that in newspapers
i was doubtful that we heard the full story, but you are after reinforcing the newspaper by yet again ignoring all the income and benefits you get from the state0 -
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celticbhoy2009 wrote: »Ok i would like to make this post..I Am Gerard Harte..it is my family you are slating!!! and you people do not have the proper facts..there is an old saying "do not believe everything you read"Yes i am on welfare at the moment but its not something i am proud of but the papers of this country having printed a complete pack of lies and i will be going further about it..i didnt want to reply to this thread but i feel now i need to let the people of Eire know the facts!!! since i was 16 years of age i have been out there..breaking my ba!!s like any other man ..bringing in an income to support my family,,i have always worked and 5 of my 6 kids were NOT brought up on state benifits!!!i am not a sponge i have never asked for charity or help from anyone..unfortunatly at this moment in life i have found myself in a bad situation..i was working for 10 years at one point i held down 3 diff jobs to ensure my kids didnt go without..my last job i had to quit as my wife was very ill and at home with 5 young kids its not that i wanted to go on the dole its at the time it was my only option..what would you people have me do?? continue to work and watch my family suffer ..my wife suffered very bad depression and also needed to have an operation..i did the right thing..i gave up work to take care of my wife and kids..yet im condemmed for this..i am currently seeking work im just finding it impossible like many other men in this country..as for this bull that i have 5 tellys and laptops and 2 cars its all crap..i have 1 telly which i bought for 400 quid of a mate who was moving to uk..my wife has a laptop yes which i got her a few years ago for a birthday present..is that bad?? does that make me a bad person..every one of you who made comments here about me own a laptop and as i said i wasnt always unemployed..and as for you who say im looking for a free home..ive never said that..i dont want a free home..i want a bit of stability for my kids..how many of you out there have had to watch your wife and kids in tears as their packing up years after year because a landlord has sold up..how many of you have kids who have no friends as there never in 1 place long enuff to make any..do you have any idea what its like to sit up night after night watching your wife break down in tears and not be able to tell her its ok love il fix it..because by christ ive tried..im registered with fas and monster.ie im looking for work..i want to bring in an icome for my family..as for this amount of money we are on..all crap too..im claiming for my wife and kids at the moment..i get 480 per week for 8 of us..we do NOT get rent allownce ..we pay our rent ourselves..we do not ask for charity we do not expect handouts...A single bloke living at home with his mammy..no bills no food to buy..fed and found gets €203 per week i get over double that for a family of 8..yet you critisise me?? you have all made up your minds about me without knowing the real story..its a shame that you throw stones when your blind to the real story...my children have been affected enuff by all this negative publicity i would ask you have some consideration and stop all this nastiness
Gerard Harte
So you have been looking for a job since 2004 ?? It was easy to get a job from 2004 to mid-2008, this "recession" thing only really started hitting jobs from September 2008 to now. 5 years job-seeking? Personally I don't believe you.
If you just admitted you are not working because you earn more on social welfare, people would have more respect for you.0
This discussion has been closed.
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