'Welfare scrounge' family fumes over benefits story

celticbhoy2009

irishvamp90 wrote: »

If someone was having a debate with me,calling me "mate" i would class that as rude,its tacky and we are not in th U.K.No you will scrutinized over more serious things

i didnt mean to come across as been rude if i did i apoligise

ei.sdraob

you know whats scary?

im after putting some figures thru a tax calculator @ http://www.hookhead.com/Tools/tax2009b.jsp

A working married man with 6 kids (same ~1000 for 6 in allowance) would have to work for €45K before tax

in order to come out with same amount of money as this guy gets (~2800x12) for not working

and that doesn't include any health insurance or medical benefits

and of course it doesnt include a free house!



maybe we can get somone better at accounting to crunch some numbers


this is an epic failure for the welfare state

:eek:

irishvamp90

Kradock wrote: »

I think you'll find he has said he wants to work , family and other things are not helping with this . If he was a genuine scrounger woul he not give a fcuk what anyone thinks. Are we beoming a country where kids are not to be supported , only by there parents . I hope not co there will be a lot of children suffering as the recession continues to bite.

Well he isnt doing a very good job of getting people on his side,if he dosent want attention and debate dont go the media and dont be posting on boards

irishvamp90

celticbhoy2009 wrote: »

i didnt mean to come across as been rude if i did i apoligise

No problem but you did,calling people mate is like something ud see english lager louts saying or scummy irish people

Kradock

Gerard , I for one wish you all the best , I have seen the downside of unemployment in my lifetime , so much so that I was homeless a few times down through the years.

I have been stating that I would go on social welfare if it was untenable for me to work , either finacially or personally. But thats just me . I am employed at the moment and for that I am grateful . I can see how the portrayal in the media has lead to the venom you are getting here and I can only imagine in other areas. I do not envy your situation , but I can empathise with it . As I have said I too had a partner who suffered from depression , it eventually lead to the breakdown of that relationship and me becoming a part time single parent. My insistence on not giving up work was a major factor in this . For your family I hope the best in all aspects. It is easy for some to accuse and portray people as scum from behind a keyboard . At least the people posting now have some degree of intelligence about them however as the night progresses the animals will appear on AH so I recommend that you don't bother with this thread. You have enough on your plate. Again I wish you all the best ,not all will have the opinion shared by some here.

ei.sdraob

ei.sdraob wrote: »

you are entitled to have as many children as you want this is not china

the question is have yee ever taught about how you will pay to raise them?

why should the state and not you be paying for them?

and for the second time what sort of an example are you setting them?



i dont care how i come of, i am not personally attacking you but asking you honest simple questions

the fact that you cant answer these questions only makes it obvious that you didnt think of these question at the time and now found yourself in situation where the state has to support you


you are lucky that you are not living in just about every country in the world, like the US

and the way i see it im paying hard earned money so you can enjoy a huge house, a family, cars and tvs


and no i dont have a house (neither am i asking for a free one!), i have to pay rent for a small ****hole, i dont have kids as i know i couldnt afford one (never mind 6), i work 7 days a week, and i dont have a car at the moment, neither do i have a tv but only a computer mostly used for work, yet i had to pay 20k in direct taxes last year since i have feck all tax credits and that money went to pay you

Any response to this 'celticbhoy', or are you just choosing to ignore it?

ei.sdraob

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Any response to this 'celticbhoy', or are you just choosing to ignore it?

i would also like anyone who is good at accounting to go thru the figures in this post

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61542836&postcount=153

and figures from the newspaper and gerard himself

im not an accountant so any further discussion would be interesting to see a comparison of how much would someone have to work for in order to get the same lifestyle as the family in the spotlight

mikemac

celticbhoy2009 wrote: »

.you condemn me for being unemployed at the moment yet you do not realise what you are doing with this "hate campaign" is only making things harder on my family.

I doubt anyone is criticizing you for being unemployed. Many of us have waited in a dole queue and many who haven't will.
But 2004-2009?? And you're supposed to be actively seeking work!

Sorry any campaign going was started by you.
Tried to name and shame Clare Co. Council in the media and threaten court action.
Do you not having housing waiting lists in Co. Clare? Maybe not, but there are better ways of sorting this.

The media has backfired on you.

And if I was an employer and you came into me for a job, I don't think you'd get it. People want a reliable staff. You had a track record once, that counts for little now.

DonJose

Maybe we should offer some "recession" saving tips so this guys €3,064 stretches a little further :rolleyes:

stepbar

ei.sdraob wrote: »

.........and no i dont have a house (neither am i asking for a free one!), i have to pay rent for a small ****hole, i dont have kids as i know i couldnt afford one (never mind 6), i work 7 days a week, and i dont have a car at the moment, neither do i have a tv but only a computer mostly used for work, yet i had to pay 20k in direct taxes last year since i have feck all tax credits and that money went to pay you

You payed 20k in direct taxes last year? You must earn a fabulous sum of money.

celticbhoy2009

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Any response to this 'celticbhoy', or are you just choosing to ignore it?

No i am not ignoring it i did not see your post
Yes i thought about it.im not totaly irrisponsible
when myself and my wife chose to raise a family i was working
i was earning enough to support us all .i did not have any way of knowing things would get as bad as they have .if i had been able to see into the future then yes i would have maybe done things differently
but i had no way of knowing my wifes illness would get as bad as it did
and i felt as her husband and a father it was my duty to stay at home and take care of them .as i have already stated i do not own 5 tvs as it has been said i do not have a luxery home or car..my car is a 99 ford mondeo has 179k km up on it..no back bumper and is basically fit for the scrapyard
its been potrayed we live this high life but thats far from the truth ..i am not alone in my present situation .there are 1000's of familys unemployed
as for an example..my children are as proud of me as i am of them i have always done my best by them..whatmore can any man do than his best
we have a loving caring home and our children are fine young boys and girls ..just because i have ended up unemployed at present does not mean i think thats the proper way of life..i want my kids to do well in life and be happy and i will always be there supporting them
im doing all i can

ei.sdraob

stepbar wrote: »

You payed 20k in direct taxes last year? You must earn a fabulous sum of money.

nope a small starting out business

*corpo tax (small close companies pay corpo tax at rate of 20%+ due to all the hidden surcharges)
*income tax (only ~1300 in tax credits, directors get paye tax credits removed despite paying it!, not married, no rent tax credit)
*employer tax (paye, single employee at the time paying himself, so not only income tax but employer side taxes for a small salary)
*stamp duties

taxes worked out to be about 50% of what i/company profits earned (im not even counting business costs, just taxes on profit)

honestly i would have been better of working on minimum wage, less stress/tax and shorter hours


so here i am trying to start an enterprise and now paying other people and I get taxed up to the eyeballs while this guy gets ore benefits than someone working on a 45K job and all he had to do was "work" the wife harder

im sorry but im not sure now after reading all this why i even bothered, should have went on welfare it seems and sat on my arse and not bothering with all the stress and redtape that starting a small company in ireland involves


to put it in simple terms this guy got more from welfare for doing nothing than i did for working hard trying to start up a small enterprise! its crazy and yes it makes me mad as its not fair in the slightest, half of my hard earned blood money went out to pay for families like this, once again how is that fair

.

irishvamp90

that amount of kids is crazy,my sister has 3 and they find it a struggle,it would be a disaster if she had another

Kradock

irishvamp90 wrote: »

Well he isnt doing a very good job of getting people on his side,if he dosent want attention and debate dont go the media and dont be posting on boards

mikemac wrote: »

I doubt anyone is criticizing you for being unemployed. Many of us have waited in a dole queue and many who haven't will.
But 2004-2009?? And you're supposed to be actively seeking work!

Sorry any campaign going was started by you.
Tried to name and shame Clare Co. Council in the media and threaten court action.
Do you not having housing waiting lists in Co. Clare? Maybe not, but there are better ways of sorting this.

"It seems to me that this is a man who feels backed into a corner and felt that coming out fighting would help. I am guessing quite a few of us would do the same. He has been getting these benefits since 2004 when the recession was just a prediction by a few analysts, if this story had come out then it would barely have registered a ripple , why because we were all reaping the boom times , but now that money is tighter some feel they have a right to attack the man. Lets not forget he has only claimed his entitlments , the prblem is with the system , maybe he will be the catalyst for change but sadly that won't be much good if he is on the streets with his sick wife and young kids. !"

Cloud9

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Any response to this 'celticbhoy', or are you just choosing to ignore it?

I'll give these questions a go. Am just sickened by the 'holier than thou' attitude of this thread.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

you are entitled to have as many children as you want this is not china


the question is have yee ever taught about how you will pay to raise them?

Mr Harte has already explained; he was in full time employment prior to the birth of his sixth child, his wife fell sick while pregnant, and he was left with no option but to leave his employment to care for his family.

Social welfare exists, for situations such as this. It's a safety net, for unexpected difficulties.

why should the state and not you be paying for them?

All citizens' contribute to the running of the country. The state is funding by employers' tax, employees' tax, property tax*, VAT, VRT... to name but a few.

Mr Harte may not have been paying employee's tax for the past few years, but he was still contributing in other ways.... By buying food, paying car tax... Basically, most of his out-goings, whilst being provided by the state, were inevitibly being re-channelled through to the state again.

and for the second time what sort of an example are you setting them?

A dedicated family man???

Worked hard in the past, left work to care for his family as his wife fell ill...
Doesn't seem like the worst example to me.

i dont care how i come of, i am not personally attacking you but asking you honest simple questions

the fact that you cant answer these questions only makes it obvious that you didnt think of these question at the time and now found yourself in situation where the state has to support you


you are lucky that you are not living in just about every country in the world, like the US

and the way i see it im paying hard earned money so you can enjoy a huge house, a family, cars and tvs


and no i dont have a house (neither am i asking for a free one!), i have to pay rent for a small ****hole, i dont have kids as i know i couldnt afford one (never mind 6), i work 7 days a week, and i dont have a car at the moment, neither do i have a tv but only a computer mostly used for work, yet i had to pay 20k in direct taxes last year since i have feck all tax credits and that money went to pay you

Kradock

irishvamp90 wrote: »

that amount of kids is crazy,my sister has 3 and they find it a struggle,it would be a disaster if she had another

I come from a family of 9 , all raised on a single employed wage. we didn't sell or eat any of my siblings.

ei.sdraob

Cloud9 wrote: »

I'll give these questions a go. Am just sickened by the 'holier than thou' attitude of this thread.

lets forget for a minute that you only joined yesterday so you could be his wife for all i know

you say a "A dedicated family man?"

a dedicated man would work to support his family not collect welfare for 5 years

i understand it being hard to get a job in the last year

but last 5 years?

sorry im quitting arguing here, time to go make babies

stepbar

ei.sdraob wrote: »

nope a small starting out business

*corpo tax (small close companies pay corpo tax at rate of 20%+ due to all the hidden surcharges)
*income tax (only ~1300 in tax credits, directors get paye tax credits removed despite paying it!, not married, no rent tax credit)
*employer tax (paye, single employee at the time paying himself, so not only income tax but employer side taxes for a small salary)
*stamp duties

taxes worked out to be about 50% of what i/company profits earned (im not even counting business costs, just taxes on profit)


.

I'm confused, you're not making it very hard for me to understand why you are paying 20k in taxes when you said you turned over 40k last year (I'm unsure if you even mean turnover). It looks like your taxes are in a mess. If you're turning over so little you have no need to be operating as a limited company and an employee of same limited company. If you are earning so little after tax you might want to take a look at where you are paying tax because it makes absolute no sence at all.

Wertz

irishvamp90 wrote: »

Celticbhoy2009 stop calling people "mate" we arent chav's or scobes here

No shortage of stuck up people though it would seem...the guy comes on here to fight his corner (and fair f*cks to him for that) and all you can do is goad him with thinly veiled snobbery? Nice.

For all the stick the Sindo gets on these message boards, a lot of you are more than willing to take what they say as gospel the moment it suits you, without giving the man who the story refers to a chance to tell you his side of things...

Kradock

ei.sdraob wrote: »

lets forget for a minute that you only joined yesterday so you could be his wife for all i know

you say a "A dedicated family man?"

a dedicated man would work to support his family not collect welfare for 5 years

i understand it being hard to get a job in the last year

but last 5 years?

sorry im quitting arguing here, time to go make babies

Your as well off going doing something useful , you are missing one of the main points here " He left work to look after his family " thats dedicated IMO

Stark

Kradock wrote: »

Your as well off going doing something useful , you are missing one of the main points here " He left work to look after his family " thats dedicated IMO

Most parents have to hold down a job, then come home and look after their kids. And then shell out money in taxes to keep the country afloat. And they won't get any help if they have trouble paying for food and medical care for those kids. Whatever about being vilified, those sitting at home with the kids and having the State pay for absolutely everything don't deserve elevation to sainthood.

Kradock

Stark wrote: »

Most parents have to hold down a job, then come home and look after their kids. And then shell out money in taxes to support those who don't want to work. And will the Government help them out if they have trouble paying for food or medical care for their kids? Will it hell.

Point number 2 . His wife is ill with depression , he was earning a paltry sum while working 3 jobs , add child care to weekly outlay and see if you think it is a better option to work. *Depression is a very dangerous illness.

* not alluding to anyone being in danger.

_o_

Makes me sick to the stomach reading about this.

ei.sdraob

stepbar wrote: »

I'm confused, you're not making it very hard for me to understand why you are paying 20k in taxes when you said you turned over 40k last year (I'm unsure if you even mean turnover). It looks like your taxes are in a mess. If you're turning over so little you have no need to be operating as a limited company and an employee of same limited company. If you are earning so little after tax you might want to take a look at where you are paying tax because it makes absolute no sence at all.

yes it is a mess you be shocked at what amount of hidden taxes are there, in hindsight if i knew know how tough it would have been i wouldnt have turned down a job was offered in a certain large multinational would have been better off financially and had less gray hair

thats what you get for trying to actually do some work and get ahead in life in this country

you get taxed to your eyeballs



while on the other hand some people make babies, get paid more than me for sitting at home watching tv and not working, and then they raise a fuss as they want a free mansion on top


talk about a socialist utopia, what will this "poor" guy do when theres isnt any more money to be made from taxes or people just start saying "screw it" and skip country as has happened not too long ago in this country

oh yes of course then we can borrow 450million a week from ECB and have his children pay it of at increased interest rate for the rest of their lives

bleh

Kradock wrote: »

Point number 2 . His wife is ill with depression , he was earning a paltry sum while working 3 jobs , add child care to weekly outlay and see if you think it is a better option to work. *Depression is a very dangerous illness.

* not alluding to anyone being in danger.

would you not get depressed if you don't have a job to occupy your mind and have 6 screaming kids running circles around you

.

senordingdong

Council houses should be given to people who have jobs and are struggling.

Not filled with do nothing lay about criminals.

Kradock

Thats a really sad inditement of you . He was working when his wife fell ill . Did you even bother to read the story or the mans post


Reply was to ei.sdraob

Splendour

Stark wrote: »

Most parents have to hold down a job, then come home and look after their kids. And then shell out money in taxes to keep the country afloat. And they won't get any help if they have trouble paying for food and medical care for those kids. Whatever about being vilified, those sitting at home with the kids and having the State pay for absolutely everything don't deserve elevation to sainthood.

Indeed.

Wheras I appreciate Gerard taking some time off work for a while to help his wife whilst sick, I think the length of time taken was a bit much.I'm a separated parent with children and have an ongoing illness for the past four years and am working. This is extremely difficult and I have no one at home to help out when I get home from work.

On the topic of Gerard's 6 children-to be fair he already had 5 of his children before he went on the dole.

Kradock

senordingdong wrote: »

Council houses should be given to people who have jobs and are struggling.

Not filled with do nothing lay about criminals.

What law has this man broken . Go on tell me .

Splendour

Kradock wrote: »

What law has this man broken . Go on tell me .

This is a good question. Depends what reasons he gave social welfare for leaving his job. I didn't think one could leave a job and claim welfare because of a sick partner. If it is legal and above board, then he hasn't broken any law. AFAIK, one can be done for fraud for not giving the correct infomation.

ei.sdraob

Kradock wrote: »

Thats a really sad inditement of you . He was working when his wife fell ill . Did you even bother to read the story or the mans post


Reply was to ei.sdraob

and then he sat on welfare for 5 years

yes i read both articles

was she depressed for 5 years too?


also as per my previous calculations he would have to get and work at a job paying north of €45K in order to be at the same level of benefits (minus healthcare)

where on earth would he get a 45K+ job in this climate?

and more importantly why should he take such a job when theres no extra gain and he can stay at home and set an example to his kids?!

.