'Welfare scrounge' family fumes over benefits story

Cloud9

The system is wrong. But naming and shaming, individual people and families, through subjective media coverage, incites hatred and tars each and every recipient of social welfare support with the same brush.

Spudmonkey

Cloud9 wrote: »

The system is wrong. But naming and shaming, individual people and families, through subjective media coverage, incites hatred and tars each and every recipient of social welfare support with the same brush.

Such families should be named and shamed.. Made an example of for other prospective scammers.....

Bring back the stocks!!

Clarehobo

Cloud9 wrote: »

The system is wrong. But naming and shaming, individual people and families, through subjective media coverage, incites hatred and tars each and every recipient of social welfare support with the same brush.

You do understand that THEY went to the media of their own free will in order to force the county council to pay their rent for them eventhough the house was not approved? They brought this on themselves.
I have no bones with people who receive social welfare, just the ones who never have and never will contribute to society.
People on here are commenting on the mentality of a certain demographic in Ireland who feel they are entitled to milk the system, not on everyone who draws welfare benefits. No point generalising-some on welfare contribute to communities and the country, some don't. They aren't all leeches, but they aren't all honest either.

bnagrrl

Ger claimed he only gave up his job in a cash and carry in late 2004 because his wife fell ill while pregnant with their sixth child.

Five years ago...

"Of course I want to go back to work. I can't wait to go back to work. I am absolutely craving, I am a workaholic.

LOL

But Danielle pointed out: "We're homeless at the moment, how can he go back to work? For the last few months our whole focus has been on trying to find a home. It's only common sense; how can Ger go out and find a job when all his family are on the verge of being made homeless?" she asked.

Get a job -> earn money -> pay rent -> not homeless

They have lived in a succession of rented homes ever since -- paid for by the council -- including an emergency stint in Jurys Inn ("a nightmare", said Danielle, "six children stuck in a hotel room, bored stiff").

:rolleyes:

Mac055

Clarehobo wrote: »

The whole point of the article is: they had a house. They didn't like Moyross. They moved and got another house.
The new house they got in Ardnacrusha(with the help of a deposit from the local parish) was not approved by Clare county council as it did not meet social housing criteria. They tried to play the poor mouth card by going to the media and the media turned on them.

Ardnacrusha, Parteen and Kilaloe are all lovely parts of Clare. I would love to be able to afford to live in them/get a job in Limerick so I could live in any of these areas. Why should these blow ins from Moyross get to choose their housing(a mansion by most standards)? Give housing to people who deserve and appreciate it.

The dad going on about having worked ten years! I have been working since I was 16, worked all the way through college, got my degree, work damn hard now and my wages are just exceeding their social welfare. I pay taxes, I pay my own rent, I contribute to society. When I came back from travelling I managed to draw a princely sum of €300 in job seekers, after I had jumped through hoops of fire, before I started a job. The money cleared around the time I got my first pay - a bit pointless at that stage! If I had been a career social welfare leech, they wouldn't have given me half the hassle and I would have gotten the dole way sooner.
If I'd had a few children by different daddies I'd have even gotten a house!

The system is wrong! But so are the people who milk it!

Here here, i worked all my life too since i was 16, i've recently had to sign on and had to jump through hoops to get it, it took over 8 weeks to get it and by that time i was living on beans and toast after paying rent and bills with what i'd left in my bank account.. I searched endlessly for work with no luck even with a 3rd level education and years of experience!! I'm immigrating to australia now as i feel i have no choice, i can't humanly see how people can be career social welfarees! the boredom alone is killing me, not to mention struggling to get by!!

is_that_so

Cloud9 wrote: »

Why waste energy attacking individuals and families??

They might be benefiting economically from a badly thought out system, but they are not responsible for it.

Situations like this exist because people find themselves to be in situations where they would suffer financially if they were to enter into the workplace.

Some social welfare payments dis-incentivise working, it's a policy issue.

Why would anyone refuse social welfare benefits, they are fully entitled too, according to the conditions laid out by policy makers???

These people have done absolutely nothing wrong. If anything they have been wronged by a system. Recipients of social welfare, whilst might be recieving support for 'free', lose out in the long term. Depression, helplessness are endemic amongst long-term social welfare recipients.

As a new frequenter of boards, I'm so shocked (maybe naive too!) at how bitter public opinion is in relation to social welfare.

This is a policy issue, and should not be turned into a witch-hunt for ordinary people, who are not the source of the problem.

Firstly this is After Hours where well-thought out debate is not always evident.

Had you even shown a iota of understanding as to why this type of example riles people I might even have been inclined to agree that parts of the system are badly broken. It is not a policy issue or a policy problem.

Welfare lifestyles and generational unemployment has long been a problem that is not just the fault of the system any more than a deprived childhood can be used to defend a life of crime. It is an attitude problem that some elements in our society see welfare as a free meal for life and an entitlement. This example here reinforces that notion never mind the fact that millions upon millions of welfare fraud are uncovered each year.

As for tarring others, many of us have been there and done that at different times in our lives. Yet somewhere along the way we did learn that welfare was when you needed it and not something to aspire to.

rubadub

She hasn't included in that figure the €1,144 in child benefit, which gives them a monthly income of €3,064. Danielle said that's because they used the child benefit to pay the €1,000 a month rent for the eight-bedroom home since Clare County Council turned them down for rent allowance. They used to get €800 a month but the €430,000 mini-mansion in Ardnacrusha doesn't meet the standards to qualify.

They use the child benefit for rent so it doesn't count!!!!!, I mean I used to have my parents paying for a roof over my head, and my food, and my clothes.

FFS using the same bizarre logic when I subtract all the stuff I used to get handed out to me I get paid feck all in my job, she is some cheeky kunt.

"We are surviving on the breadline. We can barely survive on that."

I wonder what she calls the breadline, probably queuing up at 2 in the afternoon in some fancy delicatessen for a €4 loaf of bread...

Cloud9 wrote: »

Situations like this exist because people find themselves to be in situations where they would suffer financially if they were to enter into the workplace.

By suffering financially I take it you simply mean will have less money if they went to the workplace. This does not mean they will have to "suffer", in the real sense.

Cloud9 wrote: »

Why would anyone refuse social welfare benefits, they are fully entitled too,

Because they feel they do not deserve it, and therefore though they might be entitled to it, they do not think they should be, so do not take advantage of the system. They might feel they only qualify on a technicality and do not want to take the piss. I know a few men who were entitled to the dole upon early retirement but did not collect it. I have heard others saying they worked even though they could have made more on the dole.

Cloud9 wrote: »

Recipients of social welfare, whilst might be recieving support for 'free', lose out in the long term. Depression, helplessness are endemic amongst long-term social welfare recipients.

Another reason why some would prefer to stay in work, even if financially worse off because of it.

Clarehobo

Mac055 wrote: »

Here here, i worked all my life too since i was 16, i've recently had to sign on and had to jump through hoops to get it, it took over 8 weeks to get it and by that time i was living on beans and toast after paying rent and bills with what i'd left in my bank account.. I searched endlessly for work with no luck even with a 3rd level education and years of experience!! I'm immigrating to australia now as i feel i have no choice, i can't humanly see how people can be career social welfarees! the boredom alone is killing me, not to mention struggling to get by!!

Good luck! Oz is a lovely country and once you get started at all out there you'll be on the pig's back. Anyone that has any sort of good work ethic and common sense gets on brilliantly out there and they'll always appreciate you more because sometimes they have to check the Aussie workers for a pulse(they're that laid back). You're doing the right thing by emigrating and you're never more than a day away by plane.

PCPhoto

Mac055 wrote: »

Here here, i worked all my life too since i was 16, i've recently had to sign on and had to jump through hoops to get it, it took over 8 weeks to get it and by that time i was living on beans and toast after paying rent and bills with what i'd left in my bank account.. I searched endlessly for work with no luck even with a 3rd level education and years of experience!! I'm immigrating to australia now as i feel i have no choice, i can't humanly see how people can be career social welfarees! the boredom alone is killing me, not to mention struggling to get by!!

some of the career social welfarees survive by supplementing their incomes by cash work and in some cases criminal offences - ie. drug dealing, theft etc.

I regularly see generations of families come through the courts in this country - each time asking for the state to pay their legal fees - ALWAYS in receipt of social welfare or similar benefits.

I think the state need to assess social welfare benefits on the basis of criminal convictions - no criminal convictions for 12months being a minimum requirement, payments could be raised due to the amount of people removed from the register.

The state also needs to re-assess the loopholes in the various systems (ie. single parents benefit, rent allowances to partners of SW recipients, the EASE at which someone can claim disability benefit - stress, depression etc..... I'm stressed and depressed that I cant get a job - can I have some money now ?)

The only problem is that (no offence intended towards various political groupies on boards) ..... our politicians dont recognise that the country is in the sh1tter, we claim that shure the rest of the world is in the same boat so its alright !!! ..... our politicians cant see the "ordinary" people of this country suffering , the dont want to deal with the "unwashed" they have been part of the lobster brigade for far too long -

this country needs a serious overhaul of its government and systems - we need a new constitution, a stronger government/leaders, we need decisions made that will benefit the masses and not the wealthy - we need to stop the handouts.

I'm sorry this has turned into more of a rant than anything else ..... the family above had an article written about them originally in the "Daily Mail" - before they went on holidays for a week !!! ..... they are a family who I believe have been in receipt of soo much state assistance/advice that they are deluded by it. I have no doubt that the people who help them fill out the forms for their benefits are also the ones that highlighted to them the other benefits which they should be "entitled" to..... its the system that we have, we give everything to the "spongers" and then complain when they tell their mates of all the benefits that they get.

97i9y3941

its a double edge sword,country is in a recession,jobs are going if any,pay min wage and have feck all hours,meaning you be better drawing the dole than been a honest tax payer,this levy isnt doing much favors either it can let those who are working every hour they get to think maybe im better on the dole since those who arent bother to work get a med card,allowance etc...

Cloud9

is_that_so wrote: »

Firstly this is After Hours where well-thought out debate is not always evident.

Had you even shown a iota of understanding as to why this type of example riles people I might even have been inclined to agree that parts of the system are badly broken. It is not a policy issue or a policy problem.

The problem of welfare lifestyles and generational unemployment has long been a problem that is not just the fault of the system any more than a deprived childhood can be used to defend a life of crime. It is an attitude problem that some elements in our society see welfare as a free meal for life and an entitlement. This example here reinforces that notion never mind the fact that millions upon millions of welfare fraud are uncovered each year.

As for tarring others, many of us have been there and done that at different times in our lives. Yet somewhere along the way we did learn that welfare was when you needed it and not something to aspire to.

I can see and understand why this particular example could rile and annoy people. The protrayal of e3,800 a month state supported income and the demand of an eight bedroomed house..

Over a grand of this income is child benefit, which each and every family, with children, in the state receives.

Jobseeker's of circa e400 a week for a family of eight.

I'm excluding rent benefit, as they were not in receipt of this payment, hence the housing issues..

Sure, the mother or father in this family should be actively seeking work to qualify for their jobseeker's payment each week... Fair enough, this could be seen as scrounging of the system.

RonMexico

Social welfare should only exist to help put food on the table, a roof over your head and clothes on your back.

It should NOT exist to fund:

*Getting pissed on cans of carling from the local off-license

*Getting high on weed

*Topping up your supply of John Player Blue

*Taking two week holidays in Santa Ponsa

*Buying the latest Nike or Adidas ghetto outfit

*Buying mobile phones, ipods, plasma tvs, xbox, PS3, Wii, or any other high tech gadgets.

*Going out on the town two nights a week


Unfortunately there are LOADS of people doing just this and in my opinion they deserve nothing because they contribute nothing to society except breeding the next generation of leeches and criminal scum.

Mac055

Clarehobo wrote: »

Good luck! Oz is a lovely country and once you get started at all out there you'll be on the pig's back. Anyone that has any sort of good work ethic and common sense gets on brilliantly out there and they'll always appreciate you more because sometimes they have to check the Aussie workers for a pulse(they're that laid back). You're doing the right thing by emigrating and you're never more than a day away by plane.

Thank you for those kind words.... i've heard great things from old college mates who are out there, i definitely want to work!!

Fred83 wrote: »

its a double edge sword,country is in a recession,jobs are going if any,pay min wage and have feck all hours,meaning you be better drawing the dole than been a honest tax payer,this levy isnt doing much favors either it can let those who are working every hour they get to think maybe im better on the dole since those who arent bother to work get a med card,allowance etc...

I see your point on that, it is a mess!!

mikemac

Cloud9 wrote: »

The system is wrong. But naming and shaming, individual people and families, through subjective media coverage, incites hatred and tars each and every recipient of social welfare support with the same brush.

They went to the media, they tried to force Clare Co. Council into giving them a house.
So realy they are the ones who tried to name and shame only it backfired on them

Anyway, I thought you had to be activly seeking work to get dole?
Unemployed since 2004??

soups05

i read the orginal thread on these scumbags...the father said he GAVE up work cos he was better off on the dole. He said he could not afford to get a job cos he would lose money.

that aside i am annoyed by some of the comments here. I have four kids, this is my choice. one of my sisters has four,another has three and two of my brothers have one each.

we ALL work and surpport our familys. in some cases we would be better off on the dole, but we work. at some point one or more of us MAY end up on the dole through no fault of our own. i would not be happy at some keyboard warrior telling me that i should not have had so many children. if you want the birth rate controlled then **** off to china.

in the future there will be less money for pensions etc cos so many poeple live longer while so many families are smaller. at least my family will provide workers for these spongers to live off ten years from now.

not all big families are looking for a state handout.

if you want to have a go at someone then try the scum who never worked,even through the celtic tiger years when we had to import workers while some lazed about on the dole.

rant over.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Oh no, not another one of these threads...

Although, I get 800 a month from social welfare, I can never understand how people make soooo much money from social welfare. Seriously. I could afford to take a cut, but not a huge one.

A lot of things have not come down, like rent. Rent and ESB take a huge portion out of that money. People have to live. If their expenses are 3K+ a month, then they have to sort that out. You should not be allowed live in a big expensive 8 bedroom house, have two cars and all the rest. It's simply not fair.

g1rl

I used to work in a dole office, and the amount of people you would see and KNOW don't need the money was ridiculous. But if they qualify for it, thats was that. Nothing you can do.
Sh*t needs to change.

kraggy

Mac055 wrote: »

Here here, i worked all my life too since i was 16, i've recently had to sign on and had to jump through hoops to get it, it took over 8 weeks to get it and by that time i was living on beans and toast after paying rent and bills with what i'd left in my bank account.. I searched endlessly for work with no luck even with a 3rd level education and years of experience!! I'm immigrating to australia now as i feel i have no choice, i can't humanly see how people can be career social welfarees! the boredom alone is killing me, not to mention struggling to get by!!

When you say you're emigrating to Australia, how long are you going for? Emigrating to me means going for the foreseeable future. You can't get a working permit for more than the standard 1 year holiday-working visa as far as I know.

Or are you an Australian citizen?

Run_to_da_hills

g1rl wrote: »

Sh*t needs to change.

It will change once the IMF kicks in.

brendansmith

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It will change once the IMF kicks in.

Whats that now?

Run_to_da_hills

brendansmith wrote: »

Whats that now?

This:

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2009/04/29/story90526.asp

Bandit12

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

This:

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2009/04/29/story90526.asp

Here's hoping. They should have been brought in months ago.

Run_to_da_hills

Bandit12 wrote: »

Here's hoping. They should have been brought in months ago.

There will be plenty of crows flying from chimneys.

bernardo mac

BigEejit wrote: »

Well, if the couple are stuck at home and afraid to stick their noses outside the door and there is (as usual) nothing on the 50" telly, you can pretty much bet that there is going to be kid # 7 along pretty soon, then they will be on >4000 a month.
So stop giving them stick, they get more expensive the more you pick on them :pac:

This is where "An fear as An Bord Snip" should take action:D

Run_to_da_hills

bernardo mac wrote: »

This is where "An fear as An Bord Snip" should take action:D

Mr Snip would want to be showing some colours. FFS he's paid €35,000 for just 45 days :eek:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/bord-snip-boss-paid-836435000--for-just--45-days-1854874.html

Dyr

Dey didnt tuk ar jobs rabble rabble

Clarehobo

He was brought in to make recommendations. It's up to the government to implement them. He only got called in becasue all of our Ministers for Finance for the last two decades probably couldn't even do long division.
Give him the job of minister for finance - he'd be well worth the money!

noodler

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Mr Snip would want to be showing some colours. FFS he's paid €35,000 for just 45 days :eek:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/bord-snip-boss-paid-836435000--for-just--45-days-1854874.html

A much smaller price than many top Economists get paid for such work to be honest - he is an expert in his field and has worked for years to be where he is, thats just capitalism for you - he's done nothing wrong.

Clarehobo wrote: »

He was brought in to make recommendations. It's up to the government to implement them. He only got called in becasue all of our Ministers for Finance for the last two decades probably couldn't even do long division.
Give him the job of minister for finance - he'd be well worth the money!

+1 They hadn't the balls/sense to do the report themselves and now have get to shirk the abuse McCarthy is getting from all of the various selfish interest groups in the public sector.


Regarding the dole and what its used for. If you have been paying your taxes etc for years and are suddenly lose your job it is a bit rich for some people to tell you what you can and can't spend it on - I am not advocating what is in the OP but to say no % of that 200e had better go on anything small luxury you might actually enjoy is a bit much. My two cents.

bernardo mac

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Mr Snip would want to be showing some colours. FFS he's paid €35,000 for just 45 days :eek:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/bord-snip-boss-paid-836435000--for-just--45-days-1854874.html

Not just that man,the Surgeon!:D:eek: or a severe disincentive to breed as rabbits do

irish_bob

Cloud9 wrote: »

It definitely is a balance issue, in relation to policy making.

I also think it's incredibly wasteful of time and energy, to blacklist those in society who do avail of social welfare. We mightn't think they are 'worthy' of these benefits, but it's irrelevant really.

It's simply a rooted issue in Ireland, based on terrible policy making which has led to great societal costs...

One of these being, a growing sense of resentment against individuals on social welfare. Those who do avail of social welfare find themselves in a position, often find themselves 'stuck'. Can't wean themselves off the system, as it's grossly inadequate in encouraging individuals back into the workplace.

an overly generous wellfare state does indeed rob people of the incentive to improove thier personal circumstances through hard work , work ethic and a sense of personal achievment , an overly generous wellfare state is one of the main causes of the anti social culture that exists in estates all around ireland