'Welfare scrounge' family fumes over benefits story

El Siglo

I know were used to reading articles etc... about benefit cheats but I just saw this today in the Sunday Independent and it gives the story from the 'other side'. Here's how the article went:

THEY set out to court publicity hoping to force Clare County Council to provide them with a permanent home but ended up being shamed as social welfare scroungers accused of milking the system for €3,800 a month.

'Meet the Hartes' went the headline of a newspaper article last week which featured the rented eight-bedroom home where they live with six children, two cars, and the 50-inch television, beside which the unsuspecting family posed.

Ger and Danielle Harte have unwittingly found themselves held up as a poster couple for state sponsored living, collecting an income that many families have to put in a 40-hour week to earn.

Sitting in the living room of the sparsely furnished house in Ardnacrusha last week, the Hartes were fuming.

The couple claim they have been misrepresented, vilified, and have dreaded putting their noses outside the door since the social welfare benefits they rattled off to a journalist became a front-page headline. Ger, 33, said he couldn't go to Xtra-vision with his son last Wednesday to buy "a €29 Nokia phone" without people commenting.

To say that they are "hurt" is very much an understatement, said Danielle.

They are soon to be homeless, awaiting eviction from the privately owned house over rent arrears. The family was due to move out on August 5 but has refused to leave because they have nowhere to go. Danielle, 31, however, points to their belongings packed in black bin bags.

And for the record, they say they have one laptop, not two, and bought the 50-inch television for €400; and the cars are clapped-out bangers that cost €800 and €600 respectively. But for low paid workers it was the €3,800 a month in state benefits that was most galling.

Hot on the heels of an OECD report that suggested Ireland's generous benefits encouraged more people to stay on the dole came An Bord Snip Nua, which recommended cutting social welfare by five per cent to save €850m in a full year.

"Yes I accept that there is anger over it. I understand why there is anger over it, to be honest," said Danielle, 31. "I think the anger is because people have now been given the impression of the money we are in receipt of, whereas in actual fact, that's not fact. We worked it out. Our total is €1,920 a month."

She hasn't included in that figure the €1,144 in child benefit, which gives them a monthly income of €3,064. Danielle said that's because they used the child benefit to pay the €1,000 a month rent for the eight-bedroom home since Clare County Council turned them down for rent allowance. They used to get €800 a month but the €430,000 mini-mansion in Ardnacrusha doesn't meet the standards to qualify.

That was why the Hartes went to the newspapers in the first place. They say all they were trying to do was highlight their campaign to get the council to give them a permanent council home so that Ger can return to work.

Ger claimed he only gave up his job in a cash and carry in late 2004 because his wife fell ill while pregnant with their sixth child. But he is at pains to point out that he paid his taxes for 10 years.

"I helped the economy if you ask me. Before the Celtic Tiger came along, I was holding down three jobs. . ."

So what about getting a job now?

"Of course I want to go back to work. I can't wait to go back to work. I am absolutely craving, I am a workaholic. I've been working since I was 16 years of age. At 16 years of age I worked in a bakery from 10pm until 7am, six days a week. I was coming out with £100 which was a fortune in 1990," said Ger.

But Danielle pointed out: "We're homeless at the moment, how can he go back to work? For the last few months our whole focus has been on trying to find a home. It's only common sense; how can Ger go out and find a job when all his family are on the verge of being made homeless?" she asked.

There is no doubt that the Hartes have had their share of difficulties and have not enjoyed the advantages of third-level education. And they are not slow to blame others for their troubles.

They once had a council house of their own. But it was in Moyross, a troubled and impoverished Limerick suburb where they did not want to raise their children.

They have lived in a succession of rented homes ever since -- paid for by the council -- including an emergency stint in Jurys Inn ("a nightmare", said Danielle, "six children stuck in a hotel room, bored stiff").

Their current troubles began when they moved to Killaloe, 20 minutes from Parteen National School which their children attended. The commute got too much for the family, and the Hartes claim they were going to switch the children to a closer school. They were persuaded to keep the children in Parteen, with a local councillor Cathal Crowe, finding them a house, and the parish priest, Fr Tom Carroll, giving them €1,000 towards the deposit.

The Hartes had already moved in when Clare County Council inspected the property and found it didn't meet the required standards for rent allowance. And so the Hartes found themselves living in a house that the council wouldn't pay for.

Fr Carroll and Cllr Crowe denied putting any pressure on the family. Fr Carroll would only say: "We have supported that family. We welcomed them into the school from the first day and we have supported them since."

The Hartes could do with a bit of local support. "The country now views us as a couple that are just sitting back, chilling out, enjoying life, that we've plenty of money on state benefits. That's what the country now thinks of us. So I am very upset and angry by it because, in fact, it's the total opposite," said Danielle, again failing to include the €1,144 child benefit in her calculations. "We are surviving on the breadline. We can barely survive on that."

Perhaps the Hartes could spare a thought for John, an IT salesman who didn't want to give his name. He is married with five young children, travels a two-hour commute to work, and brings home a net income of €1,900 per month.

His salary of €32,000 a year is their only income; his wife stays at home to care for their five children. Once tax and PRSI are taken into account, and his €244 in travel expenses deducted (that's the monthly cost of a return train ticket to work each day), he gets €1,900 into his hand. The €941 child benefit brings his income to €2,841, still less than the Harte's €3,000-plus.

The money disappears rapidly; €850 goes to pay the mortgage; €144 on family health insurance; and at least €300 a week on food.

He applied for a GP card.

When they had trouble meeting their electricity bill last year, their pleas for state assistance were turned down.

John admits he has been tempted to quit work.

"I pay over a grand in tax every month. We don't milk the system. We pay for everything we have for our kids.

"I know numerous people who get so many benefits that life doesn't cost them anything. Make it worthwhile for people to work. Don't make it difficult," he said.

- MAEVE SHEEHAN

Fuck them, if they're getting that much money.

RonMexico

My hatred for these cnuts and everyone like them just increased. The quicker they are turfed out of that house the better.

The Hartes aren't including their medical cards into the equation either.

Whatever about the people, it's the system that's wrong. A 5% cut in the dole isn't enough. It needs to be completely overhauled to reflect people who've just lost their jobs and are facing hard times, and people who just aren't really arsed.

El Siglo

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

The Hartes aren't including their medical cards into the equation either.

Whatever about the people, it's the system that's wrong. A 5% cut in the dole isn't enough. It needs to be completely overhauled to reflect people who've just lost their jobs and are facing hard times, and people who just aren't really arsed.

+1, but it's cases like the aforementioned who will fuck it up for everyone else, especially after the publication of McCarthy in which case the gov't now now has a remit to go on to take a sledge to social welfare benefits and allowances. Still though, this couple had the audacity to go looking for another house to be paid for out of our pockets, that's pretty shameful irregardless of the system.

DamoDLK

Its really messed up when the guy who is working but earns less, pays tax to sustain another family who don't pay a cent in tax, and end up ultimately better off.. the mind boggles.

TomTom

I agree, an overhaul is needed, I am struggling, unable to find a job. New baby and wife is on maternity with no job to go back too. People down the street got a council house, he has a job and she is a stay at home mom with one child. They are getting every benifit mainly because they are not married, we are in a slightly worse situation and we can get nothing. They even get free buggies for their kid alot of stuff we paid thousands for they got for nothing and the only reason we could find is the fact they are not married. The system is badly organised.

DamoDLK

TomTom wrote: »

I agree, an overhaul is needed, I am struggling, unable to find a job. New baby and wife is on maternity with no job to go back too. People down the street got a council house, he has a job and she is a stay at home mom with one child. They are getting every benifit mainly because they are not married, we are in a slightly worse situation and we can get nothing. They even get free buggies for their kid alot of stuff we paid thousands for they got for nothing and the only reason we could find is the fact they are not married. The system is badly organised.

Badly organised, thats putting it politely!

RandolphEsq

Why hate those people? It is the system in operation which allows for that to happen. Directing our anger properly instead of seeing everything in a red haze is what should be done;

no welfare for anyone!

Quandary

It'd be interesting to know how many families are doing this :rolleyes:. Proper order exposing them too.

My name is URL

€3,064 per month and they're facing eviction for not been able to pay the rent =/

talk about taking the piss

dekbhoy

Think of the kids, regardless of the parents ya cant put them on the street...... parents are an embarassment to society , welfare should be cut by 50% for under 25s and 10 for th rest

PaulieD

Quandary wrote: »

It'd be interesting to know how many families are doing this :rolleyes:. Proper order exposing them too.

I disagree, while the parents are leeches, I do feel sorry for the children. They will get serious stick in school.

is_that_so

Yes it a broken system but they clearly don't understand how the public view their "difficult" circumstances and why they are getting abuse and not sympathy. 8 bedrooms, 50" TV, two cars and all "apparently" paid for by the State and us the taxpayers are the headline items that people will get out of their "campaign". But this is the Sindo so no surprise on the slant of the reporting.

PaulieD

My name is URL wrote: »

€3,064 per month and they're facing eviction for not been able to pay the rent =/

talk about taking the piss

They want a free gaff. That much is obvious.

Splendour

dekbhoy wrote: »

Think of the kids, regardless of the parents ya cant put them on the street...... parents are an embarassment to society , welfare should be cut by 50% for under 25s and 10 for th rest

Welfare should be x amount for the first year and decreased on a yearly basis after that. Or have the dole set at a certain amount and give extra to those who are willing to do community work.
Problem is, an overhaul should've been done during the good times, not now when there are people on the dole who are genuinely looking for work.

My name is URL

PaulieD wrote: »

They want a free gaff. That much is obvious.

Seems they want everything for free

I'm sure they're properly entitled to some benefits, the guy payed taxes for years after all

but using the kids to milk the system like that is low, and claiming that they cannot afford to pay rent is laughable

Run_to_da_hills

Kids shouldn't suffer. I know of a very high profile south Dublin business man that was exposed last year for fraud of up to 20 million. After been exposed by the media contractors and builders walked away from a roofing job on his private house. Rain was pi*sing down in the kids bedrooms for months after. buckets were used for collecting water. Eventually a close mate helped him secure the roof

BigEejit

Well, if the couple are stuck at home and afraid to stick their noses outside the door and there is (as usual) nothing on the 50" telly, you can pretty much bet that there is going to be kid # 7 along pretty soon, then they will be on >4000 a month.
So stop giving them stick, they get more expensive the more you pick on them :pac:

thethedev

People like this have ruined the social welfare system for those who actaully need it!!

"How can he go out and find work when his family is being threatened with eviction"
Eh... acording to my life protacols this is exactly the time when you go out looking for a job:rolleyes:

Family of wasters

PaulieD

My name is URL wrote: »

Seems they want everything for free

I'm sure they're properly entitled to some benefits, the guy payed taxes for years after all

but using the kids to milk the system like that is low, and claiming that they cannot afford to pay rent is laughable

He paid tax, we all do, so what? Its this sense of entitlement I despise. Especially rent allowance, that one really irks me, basically a landlords bailout.

rainbowtrout

Why do they need such a big house? Has it come to the stage where children don't share bedrooms anymore? In the town I live in I know of families with 5 and 6 kids where they only have 2 or 3 bed houses, to be honest I don't know where they fit them all but they seem to manage

BigEejit

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Kids shouldn't suffer, I know of a very high profile south Dublin business man that was exposed last year for fraud of up to 20 million. After been exposed by the media contractors and builders walked away from a roofing job on his private house. Rain was pi*sing down in the kids bedrooms for months after. buckets were used for collecting water. Eventually a close mate helped him secure the roof.

*boggle* fraudently gets 20 million and was caught and still has a house? CAB should have fucked him out on his ear and gave them a council house in some crap part of Dublin

PaulieD

thethedev wrote: »

People like this have ruined the social welfare system for those who actaully need it!!

"How can he go out and find work when his family is being threatened with eviction"
Eh... acording to my life protacols this is exactly the time when you go out looking for a job:rolleyes:

Family of wasters

He will probably complain his nerves are at him after the recent expose. Wham bam, disability allowance.

senordingdong

If yer man only earns 32k, why does he have five kids.

Poor foresight isn't reserved for the unemployed.

My name is URL

senordingdong wrote: »

If yer man only earns 32k, why does he have five kids.

Because he occasionally gets an awful dose of the horn

ejmaztec

BigEejit wrote: »

Well, if the couple are stuck at home and afraid to stick their noses outside the door and there is (as usual) nothing on the 50" telly, you can pretty much bet that there is going to be kid # 7 along pretty soon, then they will be on >4000 a month.
So stop giving them stick, they get more expensive the more you pick on them :pac:

Unfortunately An Bord "snip" doesn't cover that as well.

senordingdong

My name is URL wrote: »

Because he occasionally gets an awful dose of the horn

I get that.
But common sense.

PaulieD

senordingdong wrote: »

I get that.
But common sense.

If you cant feed them, dont breed them. There are certain "demographics" in Ireland, some newly arrived, that seem to breed children to avail of welfare.

Run_to_da_hills

BigEejit wrote: »

*boggle* fraudently gets 20 million and was caught and still has a house? CAB should have fucked him out on his ear and gave them a council house in some crap part of Dublin

That cannot be done overnight, It would take months if not years to go through the courts and no doubt this will eventually happen to him.

Social Welfare should have sent in an inspector immediately after the builders left to check if the unfinished house was suitable for the kids upbringing, if not they should have taken them into care until something was done.

iora_rua

Child Benefit money/allowances should be reduced - drastically - after child number two, or maybe extra taxes applied as the number increases. I can never understand why there's financial encouragement to overpopulate in today's world.

Why can't people be satisfied with just two or three kids they can afford to educate and bring up properly? And if still feeling 'broody', donate some of their child benefit dosh towards the education and upkeep of some less fortunate child in a third world country?

sock puppet

They only have themselves to blame. They got a council house in Killaloe which is a perfect spot for a commute into Limerick. If the father really wanted to find work he would have enrolled the kids in Killaloe National School and then gotten a job.