The Sub 3 Support Thread

kerrylad1

squinn2912 wrote: »

First “taste” of marathon day in 18 months. Did the 3rd leg in Belfast. 4 uphill 2 downhill and then another mixed bag. 7.25 miles averaging 6:10 per mile. Happy enough

Could not repeat the sub 3 from Manchester 4 weeks ago in Limerick Sunday.Came home in 3:04:39,I did all treadmill easy,bar 7miles with 3 MP.Only run outside was 12 the Sunday before Limerick in 7:50 ave.Longest run was 16miles on treadmill that nearly broke me,with the boredom.Looking at what healy 1835 did the 4 weeks between his marathon and mine,just proves,hard work pays off.

kerrylad1

Itziger wrote: »

Thomàs, We'll be looking for a bit more of an in-depth report than that! Even splits? Any mini-crisis? Strong last 10k????

Have to agree with itziger,let's be having that report man.

kerrylad1

healy1835 wrote: »

Hey, I'll post something a bit more substantial in the next couple of days, but basically easy miles for the first week, building up to 10 miler that weekend. 30k LR the Friday of the 2nd week. A 5mile 'tempo' at faster than MP. A 24k MLR 10 days out, and a 5x1mile session last Sunday, working from 6min miles down to 5:45. This was the key one for me.....started to feel like I could do it after this run.

Brilliant run.well done man.

squinn2912

kerrylad1 wrote: »

Itziger wrote: »

Thomàs, We'll be looking for a bit more of an in-depth report than that! Even splits? Any mini-crisis? Strong last 10k????

Have to agree with itziger,let's be having that report man.

I third this - well done champ!!

squinn2912

kerrylad1 wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

First “taste” of marathon day in 18 months. Did the 3rd leg in Belfast. 4 uphill 2 downhill and then another mixed bag. 7.25 miles averaging 6:10 per mile. Happy enough

Could not repeat the sub 3 from Manchester 4 weeks ago in Limerick Sunday.Came home in 3:04:39,I did all treadmill easy,bar 7miles with 3 MP.Only run outside was 12 the Sunday before Limerick in 7:50 ave.Longest run was 16miles on treadmill that nearly broke me,with the boredom.Looking at what healy 1835 did the 4 weeks between his marathon and mine,just proves,hard work pays off.

It is a big ask getting 2 in a month. Well done on that time, brilliant! I wouldn't be beating myself up about that at all you ran well and the other one is in the bag. Treadmill just isn't road though but that thing called life dictates!

healy1835

I think I've read this thread back to front and front to back at this stage, so it's great to get to post my own little Sub 3 post mortem after reading so many from other posters the race report can be found on my log http://https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057633045&page=21, any new visitors always welcome

Limerick was my 5th marathon following DCM 15 3:39, DCM 16 3:19, Berlin 17 3:15, Rotterdam 18 3:14. Berlin was a 3:05 attempt which came a cropper on a plastic cup induced slip about 20 miles in and Rotterdam last month was my first Sub 3 attempt which fell apart in the Dutch heat through bad hydration both pre race and on the day.

For Rotterdam I did a 14 week block (followed by a pretty improvised 4 weeks before Limerick). I'd say I averaged somewhere around 120k for the block, maybe a little less due to the Beast from the East I'd usually have a target amount of Km to hit for the week with 2 prescribed sessions, Wed and Sat, and a LR Sun. I'd make up the rest of the miles as time allowed, usually in the form of a recovery run on a Monday, a couple of easy days and one steady run. On occasions I'd get a double in and that would give me a chance to take a rest day (but I didn't take too many tbh).

Sessions were pretty varied, 6x1 Mile, 3x2 Miles, 20x400m, 5x2k, 5mile up to 8mile Tempos, some tasty hill sessions in there too.

LR's were 3x30,3x32,1x34,1x36 + 3 MLR's with a 5Mile,10k,10Mile & Half all fitted in. Races went well; 62:27 in Trim 10Miler, 1:22:33 in a Half Marathon time trial & 29:59 5Miler 2 weeks out on fairly heavy legs. Long Runs didn't have any MP in them or any 'stuff'. A couple were progression type runs Inc. the 36k which was probably my best LR.

Definitely think I still have a good bit of improvement to make and in looking forward to the next block already. Running DCM in Oct and going to try London GFA entry for next April but nor sure where a high 2:59 will stand as regards the new qualifying system. So there you go, that's my sub 3 journey

thomas anderson.

Itziger wrote: »

Thomàs, We'll be looking for a bit more of an in-depth report than that! Even splits? Any mini-crisis? Strong last 10k????

Well, now that the hangover is gone

Training

I didn't really follow any plan. I had a base of about 15 miles by the end of January in the legs before I kicked it up a gear and became more structured. By structured I mean doing 5 sessions a week that would include, 1x hills, 1x speed, 1xVo2, 1 longish\recovery run (10 milers) and the long run on the Sunday. I just made sure each week that I was hitting about 65-70 miles. Didn't really keep track of exactly how many but I knew I was in and around the mark. One thing I did find is that, mentally, by starting the week on a Sunday with a long run +20miles it always set me up for the week, instead of having it at the end, if you know what I mean.

The key sessions for me were my hill training sessions which consisted of running up and down .75 mile incline. At max mileage i did this x10 in one night so for a total of around 16 miles I think it was. Another key session was doing a pyramid run 5x4x3x2x1 with 1 mile breaks. I think this really stood to me as the following week I did a 15 mile race which I PB'd my 10k, half, 15m and 25k. Managed to do a 21 miler without taking on any fluids. It wasn't warm that day, in fact it was extremely windy, wet and cold. Did one 9 mile hill session carrying a 5kg weight and another on a hot day wearing hoody,just to mix things up as I was getting sick of just hammering out miles. Some Vo2 sessions thrown in here and there were also key. Pilates once a week was also extremely benefiical.

The Race

Weather in the morning was perfect, hazy sunshine with a cool breeze. Did a quick 20min warm up with dynamic stretching and a few sprints to get the heart rate up. We were late setting off but once the gun went I hit an instant pace. The usual traffic at the start but once the road opened up we settled in.

By mile 3,once I had overtaken the 3 hour pacers, I knew I just had to keep them behind me. By mile 5 a small group of us had joined together. One fella from Trim Ac, one from Limerick Ac, a Moldovan fella and two other lads. Then we just started knocking off the miles. Yer man from Limerick Ac was guiding us around, telling us what corners to take as some of the marshalling around the course, especially UL wasn't great.

Hit the half way mark at around 1:28,so I knew I had a few mins to play with for when the wheels came off. Took a gel at 16 as a safety precaution just to fill the tanks for the last stretch.

At this stage we had joined the half runners so our little group had broken up. It was only myself and the Trim fella left. Can't thank this fella enough for all the help he gave me on the day. I've never ran with people but now I can definitely see the benefits. Might be time to join a club.

After blowing up in Chicago last October at mile 18 under the heat I was absolutely dreading reaching it. But the pain never came. We blasted through. Mile 19,20,21 still feeling great,hitting 6:45s. At mile 22 my Trim AC companion was beginning to feel the heat. He told me to drive on so I put the head down. The last 4 miles around Thomand Park area were pretty difficult with plenty of hills and drags. Hit a few 6:50s here.

Then on to the last mile. I knew the sub 3 was there. Even if I had blown up completely and did an 8 min/mile I was still going to make. It was this realisation that made me put the foot down and finish as strong as I could. Hit the Red inflatable yolk and lifted what was left of my legs. With the crowds yelling my name I crossed the line at 2:56 with a last mile of 6:30. What a feeling.

I gotta say big thank you to the Trim fella, without him I don't think I'd have gotten over the line. Everything just went right on the day. I've never accomplished anything in my life that I've been proud of, especially an achievement that is recognised by my peers.

What a day.....

thomas anderson.

Also thanks to Krusty_Clown for this

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105204604&postcount=2414

OOnegative

thomas anderson. wrote: »

Well, now that the hangover is gone

Training

I didn't really follow any plan. I had a base of about 15 miles by the end of January in the legs before I kicked it up a gear and became more structured. By structured I mean doing 5 sessions a week that would include, 1x hills, 1x speed, 1xVo2, 1 longish\recovery run (10 milers) and the long run on the Sunday. I just made sure each week that I was hitting about 65-70 miles. Didn't really keep track of exactly how many but I knew I was in and around the mark. One thing I did find is that, mentally, by starting the week on a Sunday with a long run +20miles it always set me up for the week, instead of having it at the end, if you know what I mean.

The key sessions for me were my hill training sessions which consisted of running up and down .75 mile incline. At max mileage i did this x10 in one night so for a total of around 16 miles I think it was. Another key session was doing a pyramid run 5x4x3x2x1 with 1 mile breaks. I think this really stood to me as the following week I did a 15 mile race which I PB'd my 10k, half, 15m and 25k. Managed to do a 21 miler without taking on any fluids. It wasn't warm that day, in fact it was extremely windy, wet and cold. Did one 9 mile hill session carrying a 5kg weight and another on a hot day wearing hoody,just to mix things up as I was getting sick of just hammering out miles. Some Vo2 sessions thrown in here and there were also key. Pilates once a week was also extremely benefiical.

The Race

Weather in the morning was perfect, hazy sunshine with a cool breeze. Did a quick 20min warm up with dynamic stretching and a few sprints to get the heart rate up. We were late setting off but once the gun went I hit an instant pace. The usual traffic at the start but once the road opened up we settled in.

By mile 3,once I had overtaken the 3 hour pacers, I knew I just had to keep them behind me. By mile 5 a small group of us had joined together. One fella from Trim Ac, one from Limerick Ac, a Moldovan fella and two other lads. Then we just started knocking off the miles. Yer man from Limerick Ac was guiding us around, telling us what corners to take as some of the marshalling around the course, especially UL wasn't great.

Hit the half way mark at around 1:28,so I knew I had a few mins to play with for when the wheels came off. Took a gel at 16 as a safety precaution just to fill the tanks for the last stretch.

At this stage we had joined the half runners so our little group had broken up. It was only myself and the Trim fella left. Can't thank this fella enough for all the help he gave me on the day. I've never ran with people but now I can definitely see the benefits. Might be time to join a club.

After blowing up in Chicago last October at mile 18 under the heat I was absolutely dreading reaching it. But the pain never came. We blasted through. Mile 19,20,21 still feeling great,hitting 6:45s. At mile 22 my Trim AC companion was beginning to feel the heat. He told me to drive on so I put the head down. The last 4 miles around Thomand Park area were pretty difficult with plenty of hills and drags. Hit a few 6:50s here.

Then on to the last mile. I knew the sub 3 was there. Even if I had blown up completely and did an 8 min/mile I was still going to make. It was this realisation that made me put the foot down and finish as strong as I could. Hit the Red inflatable yolk and lifted what was left of my legs. With the crowds yelling my name I crossed the line at 2:56 with a last mile of 6:30. What a feeling.

I gotta say big thank you to the Trim fella, without him I don't think I'd have gotten over the line. Everything just went right on the day. I've never accomplished anything in my life that I've been proud of, especially an achievement that is recognised by my peers.

What a day.....

The Trim AC fella posts here as Q7 if that helps you. Great achievement, huge fair play to you.

squinn2912

Fantastic! Congratulations

kerrylad1

Thomas Anderson and healy 1835,thanks for those race reports.Big congratulations again,to you both.Great to see,the different approaches people take,in training,to achieve the sub 3.

zulutango

I'm starting to think my 30 - 40 miles a week isn't going to cut it.

kerrylad1

zulutango wrote: »

I'm starting to think my 30 - 40 miles a week isn't going to cut it.

Do that 55 mile plan in (advanced Marathon )book,and I think you would nail it.Do not let all the training for Limerick go to waste.I have the book somewhere,if you want.I can root it out and give it to you.

squinn2912

I’ve done sub3s on 38-45 mpw so approach it with confidence. I’m doing more this time 50-60 but missed 4 weeks with injury so will be interesting to see

kerrylad1

squinn2912 wrote: »

I’ve done sub3s on 38-45 mpw so approach it with confidence. I’m doing more this time 50-60 but missed 4 weeks with injury so will be interesting to see

That's some going.38 to 45mpw.I would not have a hope,on that mileage.

squinn2912

You reckon? Included in that would be a tempo 10k or 8miler and 6-10 800ms (Yasso-ish) so it would be hard training. I thought at the time it was massive mileage. I'm not that sure I'm any better now but I guess Derry will tell. Having been injured has been a major frustration but I've got 5-6 good hard weeks since so there are no excuses. I'm hoping Mr Weather is kind on the day and after that I feel like I'm good to give it a lash.

kerrylad1

squinn2912 wrote: »

You reckon? Included in that would be a tempo 10k or 8miler and 6-10 800ms (Yasso-ish) so it would be hard training. I thought at the time it was massive mileage. I'm not that sure I'm any better now but I guess Derry will tell. Having been injured has been a major frustration but I've got 5-6 good hard weeks since so there are no excuses. I'm hoping Mr Weather is kind on the day and after that I feel like I'm good to give it a lash.

I would have more chance of winning the lottery,than sub 3 on that mileage.Hats off to you,man.I would love to see you do the 55/70mile plan on advanced Marathon book.If you ever get the time,give it a try.A sub 2:50 would be a shoe in,never mind sub 3.Best of luck with derry.Hope it is not as hot as Limerick was.

squinn2912

kerrylad1 wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

You reckon? Included in that would be a tempo 10k or 8miler and 6-10 800ms (Yasso-ish) so it would be hard training. I thought at the time it was massive mileage. I'm not that sure I'm any better now but I guess Derry will tell. Having been injured has been a major frustration but I've got 5-6 good hard weeks since so there are no excuses. I'm hoping Mr Weather is kind on the day and after that I feel like I'm good to give it a lash.

I would have more chance of winning the lottery,than sub 3 on that mileage.Hats off to you,man.I would love to see you do the 55/70mile plan on advanced Marathon book.If you ever get the time,give it a try.A sub 2:50 would be a shoe in,never mind sub 3.Best of luck with derry.Hope it is not as hot as Limerick was.

Haha no pressure then!! You have high expectations of me man! I think I could improve by giving that programme a shot though. Thanks!

thomas anderson.

kerrylad1 wrote: »

Do that 55 mile plan in (advanced Marathon )book,and I think you would nail it.Do not let all the training for Limerick go to waste.I have the book somewhere,if you want.I can root it out and give it to you.

That 55 mile plan only got me a 3:12 in Rotterdam. Tried the 55-70 one and it broke me physically. Ended up with massive shin splints and had to take 10 weeks off.

kerrylad1

thomas anderson. wrote: »

That 55 mile plan only got me a 3:12 in Rotterdam. Tried the 55-70 one and it broke me physically. Ended up with massive shin splints and had to take 10 weeks off.

I used it one year aiming for 3:15 and blew up aswell,but from speaking to alot of others,it usually works for them.Zulutango has a great fitness level,coming from years of being involved in another demanding endurance sport.That is why I reckon,this would suit him.

squinn2912

That’s part of what would concern me - the body taking the strain of training

zulutango

kerrylad1 wrote: »

I used it one year aiming for 3:15 and blew up aswell,but from speaking to alot of others,it usually works for them.Zulutango has a great fitness level,coming from years of being involved in another demanding endurance sport.That is why I reckon,this would suit him.

I don't think I'm anywhere near your league kerrylad! That said, I seem to be able to get about 1:25 for the half marathon on 3 - 4 good runs a week. The thing is that when I increase it the niggles inevitably come. I find that trail running I can take a lot more punishment than on the road so I might just switch to that for the summer and increase the mileage on the trails. Then switch back to hard surfaces in a few months.

squinn2912

Lads what pace do you do your long run? I’m usually 1 min slower than marathon goal pace

noelearly

thomas anderson. wrote: »

Well, now that the hangover is gone

Training

I didn't really follow any plan. I had a base of about 15 miles by the end of January in the legs before I kicked it up a gear and became more structured. By structured I mean doing 5 sessions a week that would include, 1x hills, 1x speed, 1xVo2, 1 longish\recovery run (10 milers) and the long run on the Sunday. I just made sure each week that I was hitting about 65-70 miles. Didn't really keep track of exactly how many but I knew I was in and around the mark. One thing I did find is that, mentally, by starting the week on a Sunday with a long run +20miles it always set me up for the week, instead of having it at the end, if you know what I mean.

The key sessions for me were my hill training sessions which consisted of running up and down .75 mile incline. At max mileage i did this x10 in one night so for a total of around 16 miles I think it was. Another key session was doing a pyramid run 5x4x3x2x1 with 1 mile breaks. I think this really stood to me as the following week I did a 15 mile race which I PB'd my 10k, half, 15m and 25k. Managed to do a 21 miler without taking on any fluids. It wasn't warm that day, in fact it was extremely windy, wet and cold. Did one 9 mile hill session carrying a 5kg weight and another on a hot day wearing hoody,just to mix things up as I was getting sick of just hammering out miles. Some Vo2 sessions thrown in here and there were also key. Pilates once a week was also extremely benefiical.

The Race

Weather in the morning was perfect, hazy sunshine with a cool breeze. Did a quick 20min warm up with dynamic stretching and a few sprints to get the heart rate up. We were late setting off but once the gun went I hit an instant pace. The usual traffic at the start but once the road opened up we settled in.

By mile 3,once I had overtaken the 3 hour pacers, I knew I just had to keep them behind me. By mile 5 a small group of us had joined together. One fella from Trim Ac, one from Limerick Ac, a Moldovan fella and two other lads. Then we just started knocking off the miles. Yer man from Limerick Ac was guiding us around, telling us what corners to take as some of the marshalling around the course, especially UL wasn't great.

Hit the half way mark at around 1:28,so I knew I had a few mins to play with for when the wheels came off. Took a gel at 16 as a safety precaution just to fill the tanks for the last stretch.

At this stage we had joined the half runners so our little group had broken up. It was only myself and the Trim fella left. Can't thank this fella enough for all the help he gave me on the day. I've never ran with people but now I can definitely see the benefits. Might be time to join a club.

After blowing up in Chicago last October at mile 18 under the heat I was absolutely dreading reaching it. But the pain never came. We blasted through. Mile 19,20,21 still feeling great,hitting 6:45s. At mile 22 my Trim AC companion was beginning to feel the heat. He told me to drive on so I put the head down. The last 4 miles around Thomand Park area were pretty difficult with plenty of hills and drags. Hit a few 6:50s here.

Then on to the last mile. I knew the sub 3 was there. Even if I had blown up completely and did an 8 min/mile I was still going to make. It was this realisation that made me put the foot down and finish as strong as I could. Hit the Red inflatable yolk and lifted what was left of my legs. With the crowds yelling my name I crossed the line at 2:56 with a last mile of 6:30. What a feeling.

I gotta say big thank you to the Trim fella, without him I don't think I'd have gotten over the line. Everything just went right on the day. I've never accomplished anything in my life that I've been proud of, especially an achievement that is recognised by my peers.

What a day.....

Good stuff... interesting variations on the workouts. Keeping things interesting. Something I might consider for my next block because I'm bored to death already in training for cork and I've only done a 9 week plan.

healy1835

squinn2912 wrote: »

Lads what pace do you do your long run? I’m usually 1 min slower than marathon goal pace

Mine averaged out about MP +15% (or +40secs/km). This wasnt by design, just ran mostly on feel really. Some were progression runs but 0 MP miles in there.

noelearly

squinn2912 wrote: »

Lads what pace do you do your long run? I’m usually 1 min slower than marathon goal pace

I ran mine at 8.00 to 8.10 and id try to throw in maybe 2/3 at M.P if i felt good towards the end.

kerrylad1

squinn2912 wrote: »

Lads what pace do you do your long run? I’m usually 1 min slower than marathon goal pace

Start off at 8 ish pace,gradually bring it down to 7:30 ish pace.

thomas anderson.

squinn2912 wrote: »

Lads what pace do you do your long run? I’m usually 1 min slower than marathon goal pace

7:30 with some fartlek or a few miles at pace on and off

I always try to finish strong, blast out the last half mile

squinn2912

https://runnersconnect.net/wrong-long-run-pace/

Good read about slower long runs. I ended up averaging 7:59 for 21 miles quite hilly 😊

squinn2912

Got another question for you guys. Is it best to do the long run in the morning or evening? Yesterday we did an evening one to suit my training partner but I’d have preferred morning