The Sub 3 Support Thread

squinn2912 wrote: »

FLat 10k in Dundalk tonight I came in in 38:11. Was a tough disappointed not to break 38 but fairly happy. What you guys think in terms of sub 3?

I've never broken 38 min myself and have been lucky enough to go sub 3 twice. 2:54 in Frankfurt in 2015 (perfect training block P&D 55-70 and great course) and 2:58 in Dublin in 2016 (training not as good and tougher course). I raced very little before both of those and may have been capable of breaking 38 for the 10k before Frankfurt with the shape I was in. I think when you're focused on the marathon so much that results in shorter races don't have as much bearing on possible marathon times as people think.

Testosterscone wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

FLat 10k in Dundalk tonight I came in in 38:11. Was a tough disappointed not to break 38 but fairly happy. What you guys think in terms of sub 3?

Honestly?

If you were coming off a solid block of training over the last 12-18 months and you were knocking out heavy mileage I would say yes but there are a few factors which are probably working against you

- You are coming off a recent month long break followed by a fairly rapid ramp up in training.
- You are coming off on again off again training since you have started posting on this thread due to niggles and injuries followed by aggressive training load increases.
- You are coming off relatively low mileage so i feel endurance will be a factor on a course which is not exactly pancake flat

I don't mean to sound harsh to discourage you but it's not about what you do in the 8 weeks before a marathon that determine if you succeed or fail but realistically you want to have a 6-12 month block of consistent training before you go into marathon training to do yourself justice. You come across as very gun ho and I think if you managed to temper that a little you would see alot less injuries and alot more consistency in your training. Looking at some of the sessions you have knocked out there is no reason why you can't be knocking out 2.50 rather than three with a more sensible approach.

My advice would be to look more long term, run a solid race in Derry, build on it and slowly progress to an Autumn marathon with a consistent build up.

You have no need to explain yourself I value your opinion very highly. More often than not your points are making sense and bear out.
I didn’t post a lot about it but early in the year I was slowly building and putting a focus on avoiding injury. I did my half marathon and got injured after getting a green light from the physio. I think more down to illfortune than a gung ho attitude (which is applicable to be fair).
After Missing out last year I have been zealous and regarding Derry I’m more looking forward to seeing the start line than anything else.

My intention is to give it a lash as a bit of a free hit and if I can break the sub3 again I’ll count it very successful. Then I go to the drawing board and get a plan made for me to give Dublin a proper go and we'll see how far I can take it. Flattered you think 2:50 is a realistic aim. I’ll have to go and do it now. Thanks for your advice.

Lads what’s the thinking on a slow recovery run on a Sunday after the long run on a Saturday? Good thinking or junk miles?

Yea I seem to do a recovery run every second Sunday. Did 10k today round 8 mm and felt much better for doing it

I think you're right. I feel well able to do the recovery run after 18 miles on Saturday but after the 20 I was afraid it would mess up my tempo run. In the scheme of things I feel that one rest day is enough per week.

Tuesday tempo and either Thursday or Friday intervals

Itziger wrote: »

Wow, I'm barely doing 2 sessions a week. So you do T and Intervals and  a Longie.  Is there 'stuff' in the long run or is it mostly easy? Apologies if you've explained all this already.

Please don't apologize I'd explain that 100 times!! 
Last week was a strange one because I did a 10k race Wed and went for it and then on Fri I did 4 x 1mile intervals at about 6:05 pace for both.
This week on Tuesday I'll do 8 mile tempo at around 6:25 pace and Thursday I'm aiming for 6 x 1 mile at around 6 min miles. For the long run since I've got up to 18 plus miles I'm just doing it at an easy pace around a minute slower than race pace effort.
I'm doing 10k to 8 mile recovery jogs and taking usually 1 day total rest. What you think?

squinn2912 wrote: »

Please don't apologize I'd explain that 100 times!! 
Last week was a strange one because I did a 10k race Wed and went for it and then on Fri I did 4 x 1mile intervals at about 6:05 pace for both.
This week on Tuesday I'll do 8 mile tempo at around 6:25 pace and Thursday I'm aiming for 6 x 1 mile at around 6 min miles. For the long run since I've got up to 18 plus miles I'm just doing it at an easy pace around a minute slower than race pace effort.
I'm doing 10k to 8 mile recovery jogs and taking usually 1 day total rest. What you think?

Sounds interesting. A fairly different approach to me, but it looks valid and I'm a firm believer in finding what works for each person. I'm not sure I could do Tuesday/Thursday as it would be too close. I am also doing marathon paced miles in my Long Runs these days. I posted on Strava my woes at the weekend, but here goes and blast away anyone who wishes to comment.

After a slightly faster than planned 10 miler on Friday (4.45 kms), I did 32k on Saturday with 3x8k at marathon pace w 2 mins walk/jog recovery between. It proved a bit of a disaster. Had to stop after 4k of the last rep and completed the 8k in 36.18 as opposed to 32.46 and 32.49 for the first two. Compared to this time last year..... where I did 3x8, a 3x9 (with 3 mins rec admittedly) and a 3x8k with 800 steady between. Those sessions, I guess, finally helped me break the sub 3. Now I have upped the pace a bit but Saturday was a reality check alright. I'll give the 3x8 another go, maybe take it a tiny bit slower and see what happens. The other session I do would normally be a little faster, maybe with some HM or Tempo running. No 'speedwork' at all really.

Hi...may not be a straight forward question but how do you know that you have enough base training done?

I'm training for this year's DCB and targeting sub 3 hours (PR was in Dublin in 2016 @ 3:11) - trained hard for that but not very smart - weekly mileage was too low - max was 35 miles and relied too much on 4 x 20 milers at a hard pace - meant that I was tired on the day and also really felt the last 6 miles on the day.

This year have started training in January and have averaged 42 miles per week since then, 680 miles in total over 15 weeks, max being 65 miles last week.

Pace/ progression-wise, since January, I started at approx. 8 min miles for 10 miles as my best but did a 16 miler last week averaging 6:50 (was a MP pyramid (5, 4, 3, 2, 1 @ less than MP) and included slower jogging in between - covered first 13.1 miles in 1:26, including 2 x jogged sections.

Generally have been training for mileage although generally would vary pace running 10 miles as standard runs e.g. 6:30 is best as average and during the week I'd do another at 7ish and 7.30 - keeping heart rate in aeroboic zone on the garmin, as recovery runs.

My question is now - where best to go to from here - and I guess that its to move to something more structured e.g. a speed session, a LSR, a tempo and then 3 x recovery runs (e.g. 10 miles) - with mileage of approx. 50 per week?

Thanks

Talking of luddites! Fuppin phone.

Been a lurker here for a while and thanks to all for the sound advice posted here, I got my first sub 3 today.

Sound

healy1835 wrote: »

Reloaded after a fuelling disaster 3:14 in Rotterdam, 2:59:45 in Limerick today......A great feeling.

Well done! Enjoy the celebrations.
In similar situation after London- what kind of training did you do in between?

thomas anderson. wrote: »

Been a lurker here for a while and thanks to all for the sound advice posted here, I got my first sub 3 today.

Sound

Thomàs, We'll be looking for a bit more of an in-depth report than that! Even splits? Any mini-crisis? Strong last 10k????