Have you ever/ do you suffer(ed) from depression!?

D-Boy

Soldier on it willl end enjoy the ups because you know how low the downs are.
Ive been ok for over a year now and im over the moon

Disease Ridden

tech77 wrote: »

Hmmm...
The brain's reward system is dopaminergic- the mesolimbic pathway (VTA->NAc) and all that.
The drug abuse thing would be this system as well.

Dopamine is the pleasure neurotransmitter admittedly but AFAIK its depletion isn't the basis for anhedonia in depression.
Depressive symptomatology is associated with depletion of serotonin especially (and noradrenaline) as you say.

As an aside, apart from drug abuse, psychosis (e.g schizophrenia) is the psychiatric condition associated with excess dopamine. A depletion of dopamine underlies Parkinson's disease alright (but this is a motor disorder).

While dopamine is associated with pleasure in the brain, i just thought it was worth not mixing the 2 systems up.
So in summary:
Depression neurotransmitters: Serotonin, Noradrenaline
Drug dependency: Dopamine
Schizophrenia: Dopamine
Edit: Dopamine (just thinking about it intuitively) may have some role in depression but the above is the received wisdom.

Now this is what I like; cold, materialistic explanations! :pac:
Admittedly my knowledge of neurophysiology isnt very extensive, but I know a small bit!

Just checked up wikipedia there (scientific I know!) and here is their explanation of possible causes of anhedonia:

"Anhedonia is often experienced by drug addicts following withdrawal; in particular, stimulants like cocaine and amphetamines cause anhedonia and depression by depleting dopamine and other important neurotransmitters. Very long-term addicts are sometimes said to suffer a permanent physical breakdown of their pleasure pathways, leading to anhedonia on a permanent or semi-permanent basis due to the extended overworking of the neural pleasure pathways during active addiction, particularly as regards cocaine and methamphetamine. In this circumstance, activities still may be pleasurable, but can never be as pleasurable to people who have experienced the comparatively extreme pleasure of the drug experience. "

So it seems dopamine depletion is involved at least as a contibuting factor.

tech77

Trí wrote: »

Yep - i've had it..

Had your token crap childhood and a few other things thrown into the mix. It was inevitable that it was gonna happen to me. I was very very bad by the time I did something about it.

I was on meds and in counselling for 1.5 - 2 years. I have my life back and I actually want to live now.

The stigma of mental ilness is a disgrace in my opinion and i'm delighted that there is a thread about this here. Also, the poll speaks volumes. Lots of people who have depression think they're the only one so this thread is a blessing.

To anyone reading that feels they may be depressed - its can be a difficult journey but with proper help, you'll be alright. In fact, in my experience, I am now the happiest i've ever been. Like I said, it was inevitable that it was gonna happen to me so im glad it happed when I was younger. Of course, im also glad its over.

I now have a happy life, great family and friends, a wonderful boyfriend and a near constant smile on my face.

The pain of depression is worth the life I have now.

Best of luck to anyone going through it at the moment. Sorry for the ultra soppy post but its a matter close to my heart.:)

Going from wanting to die to "wanting to live"- pretty cool.

tech77

Disease Ridden wrote: »

Now this is what I like; cold, materialistic explanations! :pac:
Admittedly my knowledge of neurophysiology isnt very extensive, but I know a small bit!

Just checked up wikipedia there (scientific I know!) and here is their explanation of possible causes of anhedonia:

"Anhedonia is often experienced by drug addicts following withdrawal; in particular, stimulants like cocaine and amphetamines cause anhedonia and depression by depleting dopamine and other important neurotransmitters. Very long-term addicts are sometimes said to suffer a permanent physical breakdown of their pleasure pathways, leading to anhedonia on a permanent or semi-permanent basis due to the extended overworking of the neural pleasure pathways during active addiction, particularly as regards cocaine and methamphetamine. In this circumstance, activities still may be pleasurable, but can never be as pleasurable to people who have experienced the comparatively extreme pleasure of the drug experience. "

So it seems dopamine depletion is involved at least as a contibuting factor.

When i think of Dopamine's role in addiction i think of it in terms of it in terms of a withdrawal state (the withdrawal state is anhedonic admittedly but i tend to think of anhedonia more as a defining feature of depression).

Because anhedonia is such an important symptom of depression. i just thought that talking about depression/anhedonia in the context of mesolimbic dopaminergic desensitization/drug withdrawal/dependency was slightly confusing the two disorders.

Clinically (which is what's important at the end of the day). the main drugs that are used to treat depression and its anhedonia are those that block either serotonin or noradrenaline uptake ie SSRI's, SNRIs, TCAs, MAOIs.

I didn't think dopaminergic drugs had any role in treatment.
But i admit i'm just after looking there and contrary to what i thought, there may be some uses for things like selegiline.
Interesting.

honru

Abigayle wrote: »

We generally just 'cope' with whatever is thrown at us, and get on with things. A panic attack tells you your mind is not at ease with something, or a few things.

Yeah, that fits for me. When I was last having common panic attacks, I wager it was related to the stress my family was going through at the time. And if you go deeper than that, it is likely I have issues with security and resourcefulness.

Looking back, I do think they can act as a golden opportunity to look deeper and seek out what it is that you truly aren't at ease with in your life.

Black Swan

b28 wrote: »

i personally dont find counseling any good.

In general I would tend to agree with you, although have you tried CBT (Cognitive-Behavioural Therapy) in addition to meds? I have an older professor friend that had been diagnosed as bipolar when young, and claimed that CBT helped him a lot to cope with his condition. Oddly, he says that he is no longer bipolar but unipolar manic, and that when teaching in the classroom he is so enthusiastic and animated when presenting to students that they cannot fall asleep during one of his lectures!

I think the most frustrating part of Depression for me is the fact that I don't know why I'm feeling crap. There is no reason for it. I'm not sad about anything. I wake up some mornings and before I've even had a thought I feel like there is a big dark cloud hanging over me. It's annoying when you are trying so hard to shake it off and trying to be logical with yourself, trying to convince your mind that actually, you are happy so why do you feel tired and heavy. I'm probably not explaining it very well.

If you have ever seen the film "what dreams may come" the part where the wife is in a kind of purgatory because she has committed suicide. That's the closest thing to depression that I have ever seen being portrayed visually.

Abi

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the most frustrating part of Depression for me is the fact that I don't know why I'm feeling crap. There is no reason for it. I'm not sad about anything.

Thats the nature of the beast, tbh. Sometimes its not anyone thing, and its hard to put your finger on it. The only solution to the problem is medication, counselling, and incorporate relaxing activities into your day.

One of the most important things you can do for yourself is to breakdown all the areas of your life, if there is any one aspect of it that you aren't content with - try to improve it or change it. Doesn't mean its just one aspect, there maybe a few things you are unhappy about, but take make changes.

I've had the 'purgatory' feeling too. Its horrible.

Gone Drinking

I'm suffering quite severely from recession at the moment, i can't get out of bed to buy any fancy cars or holiday homes like i used to..

Dudess

f®eak s©enery wrote: »

I don't know if there is a correlation between anxiety attacks and depression

I think there is.

Deleted User wrote: »

If you have ever seen the film "what dreams may come" the part where the wife is in a kind of purgatory because she has committed suicide. That's the closest thing to depression that I have ever seen being portrayed visually.

God yeah, that feeling you're detached from everyone and floating above them/looking down on them - even if you're in the middle of a bunch of people and having the best laugh ever.

Earthhorse

An File wrote: »

I'm not a violent person, but sometimes I go through phases of wishing I could have been tougher as a child. Again, I'm happy that it hasn't happened in a while, because those kind of thoughts are not "normal".

More normal than you'd think, I'll wager. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that such thoughts are not healthy or productive.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

gaeilgegrinds

I suffered from anxiety for about 6 years. It was hell, I don't believe one ever really recovers, they just learn to cope. I'll always live with it I'd say. I was medicated for a while but that only dulls it in my opinion, postpones it until you come off the medication.

Abi

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

I suffered from anxiety for about 6 years. It was hell, I don't believe one ever really recovers, they just learn to cope. I'll always live with it I'd say.

You do learn to deal with it

I was medicated for a while but that only dulls it in my opinion, postpones it until you come off the medication.

This I cant agree with entirely though. Reason being, you have to address the problems in your life. Try to fix them or change it.

Medication does numb you, but the reason they are prescribed is because the very nature of anxiety makes you think irrationally. So the medication is a tool to calm you down enough to begin a thought pattern to repairing your life. Its pretty much the reason why its advised you receive counselling throughout the course of medication. It re-inforces your positive thoughts, and in turn gives incentive.

gaeilgegrinds

Given my current state I really doubt I received enough help to be honest. It's a terrible illness and I would not wish it on my worst enemy, I've barely slept for 3 weeks now and am a mess.

Abi

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

Given my current state I really doubt I received enough help to be honest. It's a terrible illness and I would not wish it on my worst enemy, I've barely slept for 3 weeks now and am a mess.

PM sent

Wurly

Abigayle wrote: »

PM sent

You've been brilliant on this thread. Just wanted to say that.:);)

Abi

Trí wrote: »

You've been brilliant on this thread. Just wanted to say that.:);)

Thanks Im a pro on it you could say... :pac:

Just felt compelled to throw in a post if I recognised some signs. Its a very misunderstood, and complex illness. :eek::)

Wurly

Abigayle wrote: »

Thanks Im a pro on it you could say... :pac:

Just felt compelled to throw in a post if I recognised some signs. Its a very misunderstood, and complex illness. :eek::)

Jesus, don't I bloody know it.:rolleyes:

It's amazing the amount of 'snap out of brigade' members that come back to you and say - 'I had no idea what you were going through'. It takes them to go through it themselves or someone very close for them to realise it.

People still think that it's a choice in some way. Like you're choosing to be depressed and sorry for yourself. As if anyone would choose that.

I'm delighted that this thread was started, especially in after hours. If it can make only a handful of people realise that they're not alone, then good work has been done here. One of the worst feelings associated with depression is the isolation. Everyone else is grand and you're feeling like a total mad yoke. And not in a good way.:D

Fair play to everyone for sharing their experiences. Lets stamp out this idiotic stigma of mental illness once and for all.

K-9

Abigayle wrote: »

Medication does numb you, but the reason they are prescribed is because the very nature of anxiety makes you think irrationally. So the medication is a tool to calm you down enough to begin a thought pattern to repairing your life. Its pretty much the reason why its advised you receive counselling throughout the course of medication. It re-inforces your positive thoughts, and in turn gives incentive.

From my experience, doctors don't take counseling seriously. They'll prescribe medication all to easily.

As you say, medication will numb you, so doctors need to check up on patients and make sure they are seeking counselling.

IME, they are not doing that.

theesicko

Google Maslow's hierarchy of needs.. I cant be bothered explaining it. In the third world people cannot be depressed, they have more pressing concerns to worry such as where to get their next meal from, whereas we are have our physiological needs like food, shelter etc. and are left only to worry about psychological issues. Thats the way i see it, I have never been depressed before btw.

Abi

K-9 wrote: »

From my experience, doctors don't take counseling seriously. They'll prescribe medication all to easily.

If you go to your GP and say you have been feeling down, then he is likely to prescribe you drugs to help. But it takes some time for the 'genuine' depressed to seek help. He / she cannot afford to take the patient seriously. It takes 6-8 weeks for SSRI's to begin to work effectively, and you generally receive your first counselling session after 4wks. But a GP will only prescribe you the initial course, and write you a referral letter, from then on it is the mental health clinic that prescribes your medicine.

As you say, medication will numb you, so doctors need to check up on patients and make sure they are seeking counselling.

IME, they are not doing that.

It is not the responsibility of a doctor to make sure you are taking your medication and receiving counselling. . Its yours.

K-9

Abigayle wrote: »

If you go to your GP and say you have been feeling down, then he is likely to prescribe you drugs to help. But it takes some time for the 'genuine' depressed to seek help. He / she cannot afford to take the patient seriously. It takes 6-8 weeks for SSRI's to begin to work effectively, and you generally receive your first counselling session after 4wks. But a GP will only prescribe you the initial course, and write you a referral letter, from then on it is the mental health clinic that prescribes your medicine.



It is not the responsibility of a doctor to make sure you are taking your medication and receiving counselling. . Its yours.

I take on board your points.

IME, if I said I didn't want drugs, the doctor supported me. So I disagree with the likelihood of prescription. He/she willl ask about your situation and will ask your opinion too. It's a personal decision by the Doctor, at the end of the day. Maybe in your experience it's different, but then again, I have pointed out this isn't a 1 size fits all disease.

On the doctor responsibility point, completely accepted. Look at what you just posted. Do you see a drawback based on what has been posted on this thread?

Abi

K-9 wrote: »

Do you see a drawback based on what has been posted on this thread?

Not really no. Considering Im both on medication and in receipt of conselling no, I feel a lot better for it. The doctors will encourage them, because it is their business to learn about them, and how they can help.

What natural methods do you use? Im curious because, I've used relaxation techniques and non-prescription, to no avail.

K-9

Abigayle wrote: »

Not really no. Considering Im both on medication and in receipt of conselling no, I feel a lot better for it. The doctors will encourage them, because it is their business to learn about them, and how they can help.

Sorry, I completely accept your experience, it just doesn't tie with mine.

I suppose my point is, many people here need support and understanding. It often doesn't come from family or friends. So if the medical profession can't provide it, who does? Obviously they aren't clairvoyant, but there should be a set procedure besides prescribing drugs? Yes?

Abigayle wrote:

What natural metods do you use? Im curious because, I've used relaxation techniques and non-prescription, to no avail.

No natural methods at all . Though maybe relaxing herbs etc. could help? I'm at the early stages of addressing this.

amacachi

Abigayle wrote: »

It takes 6-8 weeks for SSRI's to begin to work effectively, and you generally receive your first counselling session after 4wks. But a GP will only prescribe you the initial course, and write you a referral letter, from then on it is the mental health clinic that prescribes your medicine.

Did you find that they had a certain effectiveness much quicker than the 6-8 weeks? Despite being told that I've twice gone on them and felt a lot better within 3 weeks and stopped taking them after 6. Course a month later I'm back to square one or below.
I was lucky enough to see a counsellor then a psychiatrist before getting a prescription. Course my own idiocy has set me back somewhat since then.
BTW Mods, not looking for medical advice or anything, just sharing experiences.:P

K-9

Basically, surely counseling should be prescribed just as drugs?

K-9

Sorry if I'm coming across as abrasive, nature of the AH beast!

Abi

K-9 wrote: »

Sorry, I completely accept your experience, it just doesn't tie with mine.

Thats fine, it doesnt have to be

I suppose my point is, many people here need support and understanding. It often doesn't come from family or friends.

It does though for some. But that doesnt mean anything. Thats a bit too general.

So if the medical profession can't provide it, who does?

They wouldnt be allowed to do what they do without qualification, and a knowledge of drugs.

Obviously they aren't clairvoyant, but there should be a set procedure besides prescribing drugs? Yes?

You don't go to college for 6 odd years to become a clairvoyant and yes, there is a procedure.

Snowie

K-9 wrote: »

From my experience, doctors don't take counseling seriously. They'll prescribe medication all to easily.

As you say, medication will numb you, so doctors need to check up on patients and make sure they are seeking counselling.

IME, they are not doing that.

Then Id be questioning weather I'd want him/her as my doctor and looking for a better one.....