I can haz general discussion?

Michellenman

Hello new found irrational fear of jellyfish.

It is plausible, if she hadn't been dying of cancer and had been apparently bed bound for the last week.

Rozabeez

Yes to next Wednesday indeed! I'd like to swim in the sea...and sneeze in it and make all the fish get sick and cause worldwide horror...

LeixlipRed

Eh, cancer makes ya float. What do they teach in geography these days?

Michellenman

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Eh, cancer makes ya float. What do they teach in geography these days?

THE TRUTH!

LeixlipRed

Eh, just checked my book of facts here and it's in there. Plus apparently pasta is made from dirty socks

Michellenman

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Eh, just checked my book of facts here and it's in there. Plus apparently pasta is made from dirty socks

That's why it's my favourite.

PrivateEye

I've so much to do next week, referendum too!!! YES TO LISBON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where is all the political debate I expected on campus on Lisbons?
Not seen anything bar one really bad Fine Gael poster.

Campaining for a No vote and absolutely sick of it at this time. While there are implications both ways, you'd swear we were on the verge of 'a Europe of Turkish abortion doctors earning peanuts' (COIR) or 'a Europe that will suddenly become full of jobs where the political class will suddenly become super-accountable and efficent'(FF)

Roll on October 3rd regardless to be honest, when we can all get back to hunting Fianna Failers on a united-front.

Moments of the campaign:
*1.84 An Hour fiasco. I facepalmed.
*The 'Generation Yes' and their 'I Only Kiss Boys Who Vote Yes' t-shirts. Sexist ****.
*The 'Yes In The City' poster going around town. COSMOPOLITAN WOMEN FOR LISBONS.
*People reminding Deirdre deBurca what she said about the EU Constitution three years ago. Take that you Grenna Fail type.
*'No To Nuts, Yes To Lisbon' posters. I see what they did thar.
*Sinn Fein telling us about 'MORE MILITARY SPENDING' (they did spend quite a lot on their own military-wing)
*Getting to listen to Joe Higgins loads, instead of the usual suspects on Newstalk.
*Michael O' Leary saying without the EU we'd have a 'much much bigger public sector' basically getting in the way. Eh, who do you think is flying with you Micky? It ain't John O' Donoghue.
*Jim Corr telling us its all a Jewspiracy.

PrivateEye

Actually reading my own post, I just went 'Donal, you're an idiot'

Its freshers week. fcuk Lisbon debates on campus. WE CAME HAR TO PARTY.
Maybe next week.

Rozabeez

So who's out Thursday?

allandanyways

PrivateEye wrote: »

Actually reading my own post, I just went 'Donal, you're an idiot'

Its freshers week. fcuk Lisbon debates on campus. WE CAME HAR TO PARTY.
Maybe next week.

Will you edumacate me please? I'm too easily persuaded by literature, I was all for a NO vote at about half 1 and then I found some YES vote literature at a quarter to 2 and now I don't know what to do.

allandanyways

Rozabeez wrote: »

So who's out Thursday?

Meeeeeeee, or should I say Wino Rachel. It could be dangerous, it's been a while since I hit the vino.

LeixlipRed

For me the Lisbon Treaty doesn't change the one thing I care about and that's neutrality. It maintains the status quo in most areas and while the EU is not the perfect utopian socialist state I wish it would be it's fine by me for the moment.

Teabag!

LeixlipRed wrote: »

neutrality

Neutrality is that irish for lack of moral courage, or for sitting on the fence???

we are not neutral, nor have we ever been 'properly' neutral.....

PrivateEye

allandanyways wrote: »

Will you edumacate me please?

Its all amazingly dull really.

This is a piece from an article written by the same journalist who did an amazing amount of research into Libertas last time around, and their dodgey dealings. Sums up my own beliefs on the matter too. Basically that while a No vote is preferable to a Yes vote, it ignores the larger issues of the EUs current direction in favour of some bizarre 'YOU'LL NEVER BEAT THE IRISH' type nonsense.

The great confusion surrounding the treaty is not just a consequence of the dishonesty of the political parties and special interest groups that are involved in the campaign, although that certainly doesn't help. The nature of the treaty very much depends on the context in which it is considered. If the general direction and trajectory of the EU is taken as a given and the treaty is considered in isolation, the Yes campaign's interpretation of the treaty appears to be more accurate.

There is very little in it that is likely to bring about any great change to the current political or economic direction of the EU or its member states. The most substantial changes primarily focus on the problem of allowing the EU state to take decisions more efficiently, in a way that is actually slightly more representative of population distribution.



It's only when you look at the bigger picture that the arguments of the No campaign begin to make sense. The EU is a state in slow formation which largely exists in order to enable the European states to combine forces in order to assert themselves economically and politically on the world stage.
Since its formation, there has been a series of treaties which have seen the member nations progressively cede sovereignty over areas of their affairs to the EU. Perhaps most importantly, the EU has served as a common political front for Europe's industrialists - negotiating trade agreements, setting tariffs and distributing subsidies in order to ensure that European industry remains internationally competitive.

Thus, despite the fact that the Lisbon treaty may not itself contain much that is new, it represents a significant step in further enabling European integration and continuing towards the goal of making the EU a global economic and political power.

Don't believe the '€1.84 if you vote no' rubbish, Don't believe the 'Jobs for everyone if we vote yes' nonsense, Don't believe the sky will fall if it goes Yes OR No.

For me, its the 'general direction and trajectory of the EU' at present that is the problem. Taking it unemployment is almost at 20% in Spain at present, its obvious this crisis isn't just an 'Irish problem' Still, a No vote alone, when motivated mainly by a fear of 'The Turks' or 'The Gays' will not exactly bring about any real political change.

To be honest, this is not top of my political agenda at all at the minute, its all got a bit meh for everyone I suspect.

PrivateEye

are not neutral, nor have we ever been 'properly' neutral

Hurr Durr, this isn't Fallujah?


Also, mad shoutouts to all the Paddys in EUPOL AFGHANISTAN, EUFOR Althea and EUPOL RD CONGO

Nationalist

LeixlipRed wrote: »

For me the Lisbon Treaty doesn't change the one thing I care about and that's neutrality. It maintains the status quo in most areas and while the EU is not the perfect utopian socialist state I wish it would be it's fine by me for the moment.

It'll be a very sad day if it ever comes to that mess.

LeixlipRed

Nationalist wrote: »

It'll be a very sad day if it ever comes to that mess.

It'd be a sad day if an actual nationalist government ever came into power here too but you don't see me crying.

PrivateEye

It'd be a sad day if an actual nationalist government ever came into power here too

Its incredibly unlikely,given that from day one with big Wolfe himself,Irish Republicanism has been firmly left.

We declare in the words of the Irish Republican Proclamation the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland, and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies to be indefeasible, and in the language of our first President. Pádraíg Mac Phiarais, we declare that the Nation’s sovereignty extends not only to all men and women of the Nation, but to all its material possessions, the Nation’s soil and all its resources, all the wealth and all the wealth-producing processes within the Nation, and with him we reaffirm that all right to private property must be subordinated to the public right and welfare.

The First Dail.Pretty 'socialist' by anyones logic.

In Ireland,nationalism seems to come from a completely different angle than it does in most Euro-countries. Thank christ for that!

LeixlipRed

True, it's not the right wing nationalism you see in Central and Eastern European countries. I still despise nationalism though, I just hate the ideas of pride and feeling superior to anyone, which, despite the left leanings of nationalists here is still prevalent throughout the movement.

Plattsy

LeixlipRed wrote: »

True, it's not the right wing nationalism you see in Central and Eastern European countries. I still despise nationalism though, I just hate the ideas of pride and feeling superior to anyone, which, despite the left leanings of nationalists here is still prevalent throughout the movement.

Except that not all nationalists are like that. I'd consider myself a nationalist but I don't feel "superior" to anyone. As for pride, well I'd consider that simply a case of caring about your history and your antecedents. Recognising that you form a part of that continuous community up to today. It doesn't have to mean "my country right or wrong", either. I'd be the first to criticise my country for its faults. Socialism is just as "guilty" of pride as anything. It seems to me that socialists fairly often hark back with admiration and, yes, pride, to long-dead theorists, Paris Communes and the like. I really don't see how that is any less or more valid than pride based on shared national (as opposed to ideological) experience.

Of course I'd agree that there are plenty of "nationalists" in Ireland who are the reprehensible types which you describe. But using that particular type as a way to immediately write off all nationalism is, in my view, rather ill-advised.

banquo

I'm voting 'yes', but my main question is this: what's wrong with the present treaty that we have to go changing it?

Also, holding referenda isn't cheap. Could we do this less often please?

PrivateEye

Could we do this less often please?

Well, we did do it once before, personally I'd be more than happy to just call the second referendum off :pac: If 'Yes' carry the day, then its 1-1. Best 2 out of 3?

banquo

Would probably be the fairest thing!

Good idea actually...

banquo

Gah! Plagued by double-posts I am...

Teabag!

PrivateEye wrote: »

Also, mad shoutouts to all the Paddys in EUPOL AFGHANISTAN, EUFOR Althea and EUPOL RD CONGO

What about the lads in MINURCAT (Formerly Eufor TCHAD), KFOR (kosovo), UNIFIL(lebanom), UNMIK(also kosovo), UNOCI (ivory coast), UNTSO (syria isreal)....

do they not get a shout out too:p:p:p

PrivateEye

Ha ha! Big up to all our soliders doing their bit. EUFOR Althea are protecting our neutrality miles from home, armed and all.

Dermo, on a sidenote, I will not be in the SLT classes tomorrow sadly. Mate of mines birthday (Quiet lad, Arthur) and he's having a big bash in town so I'm off to that. Don't give the game away

--
Just in the door from a quick Lisbon canvas (Doing your own area is always good, I keep hearing 'Ah sure _________ son must know what he's on about' and such oldperson speak) and it went reasonably well. To be honest the aim of our campaign is to push people towards class-politics regardless of the Lisbon outcome, and that seems to be going quite well. A lot of anger out there.

I would think Palmerstown is 55/45 (or less even) to No, but last time around it was 60/40. Such a dip may seem insignificant, but if the No falls slightly and more people come out nationally, Yes has it. God, I love politics.

PrivateEye

lol.

Michellenman

Haha, savage I've seen loads of those around actually, rarely that good though.

Sat at the train station for an hour today, got my train times mixed up, felt like such a n00b.

Teabag!

PrivateEye wrote: »

lol.

I didnt get it at first, but then through a moment of clarity i did understand.......


and there was much rejoicing (well laughing)

banquo

I'm in Arts PACR, if anyone wants to pop in to say hello