I can haz general discussion?

PrivateEye

How handy for Young Fine Gael. They're having a debate on the Lisbon Treaty (The L&H that is) "in conjunction" with YFG.

HOWEVER

There's no Fianna Fail speaker (You know, the government. The guys who eh....are in power, and are a more important part of the Yes side than anyone)

Libertas are involved (...because, they're totally one of the two Irish parties opposed to Lisbon with representatives in Brussels and totally not a group that even most No voters dont like)

How handy indeed. Crossover membership issit?

The Debate should have been called by JUST Young Fine Gael (In which c ase they could invite anyone they wanted), but to have the L&H arrange debates in conjunction with political parties is a joke. Next week the L&H and Coir present a debate on abortion.


Just seems odd. Fair play to people for wanting to organise a debate, but like come on....

allandanyways

I'm for a no vote and I've been thinking about it today and from a slightly-dim, politically-slow voter, I'm really annoyed. All I seem to be able to comprehend with this second voting is that a large majority of previous no-voters seem to be deciding to vote yes because they're thinking "We musta been wrong the first time, sure why else would we have to do it again?" That's what I've gathered from people I've been talking to who are voting yes.

One thing that really bothers me about the yes side (aside from the Generation Yes ****e) is their constant emphasising of what Lisbon WON'T do, like introduce abortion or euthanasia or whatever else (*looks for Generation Yes leaflet but fails to locate it*), I'm not pro-abortion (but very pro-choice) but what's the point in pointing that out? It's not like backwards jesus, mary and joseph Ireland is going to introduce it any time soon, Lisbon or no Lisbon (despite all the problems associated with teenage pregnancy in this country), and on top of that, I really don't see what Lisbon is going to do, aside from just make Europe one big state. (that's how I'm seeing it anyway, as I said, very unclued up here)

And the one big EU state thing really annoys me. WHY should the EU get to approve 100% of the budget? Take Austria or Denmark, who're ranked in the top 5 EU healthcare systems; when the 2011 budget comes out under Lisbon, they'll get OUR money towards THEIR healthcare system even though they don't need it and people are sleeping on floors in A&E here.

It wouldn't matter if we re-elected a new government with the money we could have saved by not doing this Lisbon thing again, a magical government that would kick Cowen's ass back to Offaly and try and re-build out country, because the EU are just going to be our boss now and take all our money and hike up taxes and just basically reduce Ireland back to the point where we're all just leprechauns with no say in anything that goes on in our country. That's my basic jist of Lisbon.

What do ye politically knowledgable people think the outcome will be? Excuse anything that's totally ignorant, as I stated, I havent really got a clue, but that's my simplified version of what I think of Lisbon. I needz edumacation.

pisslips

Beau wrote: »

He's not drunk...

It's true, it seemed very coherant to me. I would like to go out though but I can't not yet.......not yet....

It's frustrating when you can't do what you want to do.

Rozabeez

Yes, yes it is. *Waits*

Michellenman

pisslips wrote: »

It's true, it seemed very coherant to me. I would like to go out though but I can't not yet.......not yet....

It's frustrating when you can't do what you want to do.

TELL ME ABOUT IT! UGH!!

pisslips

Jeez, NO NEED TO SHOUT!!!


We'll get through this.

Michellenman

pisslips wrote: »

Jeez, NO NEED TO SHOUT!!!


We'll get through this.

Apologies. Quite frustrating though.

Yes, we'll get there eventually.

mp3guy

allandanyways wrote: »

All I seem to be able to comprehend with this second voting is that a large majority of previous no-voters seem to be deciding to vote yes because they're thinking "We musta been wrong the first time, sure why else would we have to do it again?" That's what I've gathered from people I've been talking to who are voting yes.

Whats worse is that people think we're actually voting on the exact same treaty again. Which we're not. It has had changes made to it. Look it up.

Beau

allandanyways wrote: »

One thing that really bothers me about the yes side (aside from the Generation Yes ****e) is their constant emphasising of what Lisbon WON'T do

A great thread from the Politics forum:
10 'REAL' reasons to vote yes to Lisbon

allandanyways wrote: »

And the one big EU state thing really annoys me. WHY should the EU get to approve 100% of the budget? Take Austria or Denmark, who're ranked in the top 5 EU healthcare systems; when the 2011 budget comes out under Lisbon, they'll get OUR money towards THEIR healthcare system even though they don't need it and people are sleeping on floors in A&E here.

I doubt that Lisbon will change the fact that we may have to be a net contributor to the EU in the future. I don't know why you specifically picked Austria and Denmark but are you suggesting that while it was all cool and great for us to get money for all of our development projects, that other countries shouldn't benefit from that?

allandanyways wrote: »

...because the EU are just going to be our boss now and take all our money and hike up taxes and just basically reduce Ireland back to the point where we're all just leprechauns with no say in anything that goes on in our country. That's my basic jist of Lisbon.

To be honest that just sounds ridiculous the way you put that. The EU doesn't work against its members and we still have a veto on our own taxes.

On a different and weird note, you (as in your username!) featured in a dream of mine last night. Someone was like 'let me introduce you to allandanyways' and then you'd run off and we'd never be introduced. I think I need to get of boards....!

Just saw Bernard Dunne lose, not into boxing but that was sad.

allandanyways

Beau wrote: »

A great thread from the Politics forum:
10 'REAL' reasons to vote yes to Lisbon

I doubt that Lisbon will change the fact that we may have to be a net contributor to the EU in the future. I don't know why you specifically picked Austria and Denmark but are you suggesting that while it was all cool and great for us to get money for all of our development projects, that other countries shouldn't benefit from that?

To be honest that just sounds ridiculous the way you put that. The EU doesn't work against its members and we still have a veto on our own taxes.

On a different and weird note, you (as in your username!) featured in a dream of mine last night. Someone was like 'let me introduce you to allandanyways' and then you'd run off and we'd never be introduced. I think I need to get of boards....!

Just saw Bernard Dunne lose, not into boxing but that was sad.

I did tell ya I was clueless! That's what happens when all you read is leaflets. (terribly irresponsible voter, I know)

There should be simplified campaigns- Lisbon for Simpletons or something cos I reaaaaaally don't understand it. Edit: found myself some sort of Lisbon for Dummies thingy on t'internet, it's Irish, it's impartial so far but I'm only 3 pages in. Anyway, educating myself so I can make an informed, politically correct post next time.

Flattered to be featured in the dream, my username must be catchier than i thought.

Beau

allandanyways wrote: »

There should be simplified campaigns- Lisbon for Simpletons or something cos I reaaaaaally don't understand it.

Well it really helps with understanding the referendum if you start with trying to understand the EU first. I'd highly recommend reading up on the EU, even just the introductory paragraphs on wikipedia (on The EU, The Council, The European Parliament and the Commission). That will give you a much better understanding of how the EU works and then that thread I referenced (and the debate in general!) should start to make sense!

*Tripper*

I'm not exactly politically savvy and don't have any particular interest in politics but what I do have an interest in is myself, my friends and my family. All the big and small employers in Ireland seem to be advocating a yes vote(weather publicly or just among staff) to Lisbon. All the major political parties(FF,FG,Labour,GP) want us to vote yes and the only party in the Dail telling us to vote no is Sinn Fein(they seem to be hell bent on ruining this countries image inside and outside of the EU). I find Declan Ganley incredibly hard to believe and feel that he has his own personal agenda, which we do not know of, in a no vote. Maybe its the fact that I find it hard to take advice on what is best for Ireland from a man with a British accent and business interests in the US military.

Ireland has to be seen to play a big role in the functioning of the EU to secure foreign direct investment from multinationals overseas. This creates jobs for skilled college graduates and others. These are the kind of jobs that myself and many others here may be interested in pursuing. Right now Irelands economy might resemble a mangey dog rather then the golden retriever it was a few years ago, but, with the help of some of the brightest business people in Ireland(lets not get into the politicians) we will strengthen the economy once again. We cannot do this without the EU. Without the EU Ireland doesn't have a lot going for it. We need to show that we take part in a bigger community and by investing here we can open many more doors then just those in Ireland.


I'd rather die as an Irishman than live as a european. Vote NO to Lisbon.----Its this sort of thing that you just have to look at and laugh. If we were to take this sort of stance on EU politics we would be saying goodbye to a lot of the things that we take for granted.

banquo

Why must every ****ing thread on boards this week suddenly, whatever the prevailing drift of conversation, become about Lisbon?

Today I was chopping wood with an axe and nearly clipped my dog. Thoughts?

Beau

banquo wrote: »

Why must every ****ing thread on boards this week suddenly, whatever the prevailing drift of conversation, become about Lisbon?

Yeh I'm getting sick of hearing and talking about it at this stage. Roll on next Friday and the results.

banquo wrote: »

Today I was chopping wood with an axe and nearly clipped my dog. Thoughts?

I was at that the other day too, my old dog (who will have to be put down soon) can't see are hear and was coming towards me. Its scary enough about chopping of your own legs without worrying about him! Had you shin guards on? I had too after some nasty hits from flying wood.

banquo

Protection? Hell no! Real men welcome 9 inches of thorny ash wood to the face.

And can't afford shin guards.

Beau

I was dreading doing it, its actually pretty therapeutic.

Fuck this, good night! x x x

banquo

Night. Um, xxx to you too...

*uncomfortable*

barleybooley

banquo wrote: »

Night. Um, xxx to you too...

*uncomfortable*

*Jealous*

Ahh, just finished work super early AND I got an early birthday present, whoo!

LeixlipRed

Michellenman wrote: »

TELL ME ABOUT IT! UGH!!

You'll get your own way some day girl :P

Nationalist

banquo wrote: »

Today I was chopping wood with an axe and nearly clipped my dog. Thoughts?

At home? Iv never come across anybody else who isnt from the sticks who does it. And yes, very therapeutic indeed.

banquo

[Seriously therapeutic!

Rozabeez

*Does the birdy dance*

allandanyways

Rasher sandwhich and Xfactor repeats... I'm a happy woman.

Nationalist

allandanyways wrote: »

Rasher sandwhich and Xfactor repeats... I'm a happy woman.

Actifed and lemsip.... Im a sick man.

Michellenman

LeixlipRed wrote: »

You'll get your own way some day girl :P

Not any time soon by the look of it.

Walking to Tesco today and I saw summit fly towards my eye and felt it hit my eye, gave my eye and aul rub and I was grand, figured it must have flipped out again. Went to Tesco, did my shopping, came home, went about my daily business.... UNTIL... I was looking in the mirror just a minute ago and right there, stuck in between my eyelashes there is a little tiny squished dead FLY?! I've been walking around with it there for the last few hours.

Manky.

Nationalist

Michellenman wrote: »

Not any time soon by the look of it.

Walking to Tesco today and I saw summit fly towards my eye and felt it hit my eye, gave my eye and aul rub and I was grand, figured it must have flipped out again. Went to Tesco, did my shopping, came home, went about my daily business.... UNTIL... I was looking in the mirror just a minute ago and right there, stuck in between my eyelashes there is a little tiny squished dead FLY?! I've been walking around with it there for the last few hours.

Manky.

All the cool kids are wearing those these days.

Michellenman

Nationalist wrote: »

All the cool kids are wearing those these days.

I'll count myself lucky.


*scrubs eyes fervently*

LeixlipRed

Hehe, poor Michelle :P I swallowed a fly warming up for my match yesterday. So I feel your pain

Michellenman

Bleugh. At leasy I have the peace of mind that my fly is not on/in my person anymore, stinger

PrivateEye

I didn't mean to restart a debate on the treaty, just highlight the bizarre (and very handy) situation where Fine Gael get to actually hand in hand ORGANISE a debate on Lisbon with the L&H, and surprise surprise the biggest player on the Yes side, Fianna Fail, is not represented. Neither of the No speakers come from the two Irish 'No' parties with MEPs (SF and SP) either. All seems very handy. Dual-membership FTW me thinks.


not that I give much of a bllocks at this stage because I've had a t good TkMaxx experience (A €150 jacket for €35 :pac:) and nothing can bug me.