Irish Times reports that all pistols are to be banned

Sparks

The statement doesn't look great at all. And I know I'm biased because they mentioned the 'O' word, but from rereading that it seems to be nothing like what the Times reported, which was "all hundguns are now banned, no exceptions, no compensation, no argument, nothing".

That is unequivocably bad; but it could be much, much, worse. Air pistol and smallbore pistol are specifically mentioned as being up for exemptions; that's got to be half the licences if not a whole lot more. The rest seems to boil down to "we're going to have more security concerns, when we have a list, you have to meet them, if you do you get to keep your licence". Which, face it, is what we have now anyway. And from the wording, it seems that the "no new licences" and the extra security concerns and so on, do not apply to smallbore or air pistols. Which means that that entire half of the sport is unaffected, and the other half can survive (though yes, they'll have to work harder).

Yes, I'm biased with my little air pistol, but I *am* happier after reading that than I've been for the rest of today.

What I'm not happy with, in any way, shape or measure, is how this has all been reported as in the media. The Examiner, credit where it's due, is off talking to shooters at the moment (the NTSA and the NARGC and they were trying to contact the IPSA, and they're interviewing actual pistol shooters). But the Times? RTE?

Not in a happy mood about them at all.

kerryman12

it helps to get it out of the system medicanman. take two of these before bed tonight and call me in the morning...

http://www.narsil.org/humor/fukitol.jpg

medicman

kerryman12 wrote: »

it helps to get it out of the system. take two of these before bed tonight and call me in the morning...

http://www.narsil.org/humor/fukitol.jpg

yep, that sum's it all up kerryman, nice.

kerryman12

sparks

looking at the way thins are going I would not be surpirsed if the extra "security concerns" did not make it simply too expensive to own a handgun. It appears to me as a ban by the back door .

Blazher

kerryman12 wrote: »

sparks

looking at the way thins are going I would not be surpirsed if the extra "security concerns" did not make it simply too expensive to own a handgun. It appears to me as a ban by the back door .

What more can they ask us to do. My house has more security then most banks in Ireland. all im short of doing is having 2 security personnel posted 24/7 at my door.


I think it gose without saying. Everyone needs to stand up now and fight for the right to keep our sports.

If someone that knows better then me a mod or someone. Could outline what people need to do.

People to call/Email

just to get this going.

I am confused by something here.

If they are going for the full ban, then why aren't they doing it? They can easily bring in legislation to ban pistols, and they will get support for it.

I don't see why they would try the backdoor approach when they don't need to.

Vegeta

Blazher wrote: »

People to call/Email

Your local TDs, the Minister for Justice himself, the Taoiseach (who officially opened the Midlands didn't he).

Tell them why you are against this and you wont vote for anyone who implements policies like this.

Vegeta

Deleted User wrote: »

I am confused by something here.

If they are going for the full ban, then why aren't they doing it? They can easily bring in legislation to ban pistols, and they will get support for it.

I don't see why they would try the backdoor approach when they don't need to.

Maybe hoping that rifle and shotgun owners, who are active in their sports, will still vote for them as its not as terminal as a ban

Avoid having to take handguns from people and give them compensation in return.

2 reasons off the top of my head

Sparks

kerryman12 wrote: »

sparks
looking at the way thins are going I would not be surpirsed if the extra "security concerns" did not make it simply too expensive to own a handgun. It appears to me as a ban by the back door .

It could well go that way. And this isn't in any way nailed down - but on the other hand, he could just have said "that's it, hand them in, no compensation, no appeal". Hell, he could have TCO'd all of them in for three months and then brought in the legislation in the meantime. But instead there's this which seems to be a half-way sort of thing. And if this goes through the FCP, which it seems it will, then we'll still have a role in deciding on security concerns and so forth.
And meanwhile, Deasy&Co can be dismissed because something is being done.
I'm not saying this is great, just that given how much worse it could have been, well, let's at least hear the man out. There's an upcoming FCP meeting apparently, we'll know more after that.

And if, in the meantime, public opinion goes the other way, well, that'll leave a totally different end result, won't it?

chem

Can we still get pistols until this is made into law? Or is the ban as and from now? Just I have my application in 3 months now for a pistol. Notting back yet!

Sparks

As I read it - I don't think we have an official answer on this - if you apply now and get your licence, then when the misc. bill comes in, you'll have to have your security inspected with respect to these new security provisions, whatever they are, and you won't get to keep the licence unless/until you meet them.

FlyOver

Legally can compensation be sought if this ban comes into operation?

sfakiaman

Maybe we should take a leaf out of the pensioners book and stage a march on the Dail. This is a time for real leadership from the leaders of all the shooting organisations. We must not let the Gobs*^"s work the divide and conquer on us.

I emailed Fine Gael last week about Deasy, all I got back was electioneering stuff about how great they are. Good luck to them all come the next election. I'll want to know what they have done or said in our defence, then vote accordingly.

Sparks

sfakiaman wrote: »

Maybe we should take a leaf out of the pensioners book and stage a march on the Dail.

A group of firearms owners marching on the Dail. How could that possibly go wrong or be seen in a suboptimal light?

This is a time for real leadership from the leaders of all the shooting organisations. We must not let the Gobs*^"s work the divide and conquer on us.

Agreed on that point - we need to let the FCP do its job and back it instead of splitting from it at this point.

I emailed Fine Gael last week about Deasy, all I got back was electioneering stuff about how great they are. Good luck to them all come the next election. I'll want to know what they have done or said in our defence, then vote accordingly.

You mean other than denouncing Deasy and Mitchell's comments as not Fine Gael policy, making positive statements about our sport, agreeing to meet us this week, and having Kenny call Deasy and Mitchell on the carpet and tell them to go to a pistol match to learn something?

dresden8

tba wrote: »

Well concealment is the reason, I have no problem with it frankly. Rifles and shotguns are still legal.

Item in the metro today about how 2,000 deer a year are poached.

Don't be surprised when your high powered sniper rifle is next on the list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

tonysopprano

Now is the time to be emailing

Address for Justice info@justice.ie

Address for FF members http://www.fiannafail.ie/contact.phpx

Address for individual ministers and TD's
http://www.fiannafail.ie/tds.phpx

Just click on minister or TD, then click on email and send message

Sparks

Just remember, keep it calm and polite. Yelling and shouting won't do anything for us.

dresden8

Sparks wrote: »

Just remember, keep it calm and polite. Yelling and shouting won't do anything for us.

Keeping it calm has done feck all.

So much for the consultative part of the consultative panel.

ranger4

sfakiaman wrote: »

Maybe we should take a leaf out of the pensioners book and stage a march on the Dail. This is a time for real leadership from the leaders of all the shooting organisations. We must not let the Gobs*^"s work the divide and conquer on us.

I emailed Fine Gael last week about Deasy, all I got back was electioneering stuff about how great they are. Good luck to them all come the next election. I'll want to know what they have done or said in our defence, then vote accordingly.

Cant see any benifit from a fg goverment, if anything they would take a much harder negitive view with all legally held firearms, Tis time for all of us to get off our arsess and orginise a march on the dail, The shower in the dail will only take note if Every Licenced firearms owner and dealer in the country makes a stand now and puts a stop to thease proposed draconian measures.

ranger4

tonysopprano wrote: »

Now is the time to be emailing

Address for Justice info@justice.ie

Address for FF members http://www.fiannafail.ie/contact.phpx

Address for individual ministers and TD's
http://www.fiannafail.ie/tds.phpx

Just click on minister or TD, then click on email and send message

The time for emailing the useless tds are over, we should be emailing all legal licenced firearms dealers and owners to make a stand by LEGALY expressing our plight and how were are about to be deprived of our sport by organising the mother of all marches on the dail.

Sparks

dresden8 wrote: »

Keeping it calm has done feck all.

Calm and quiet are two very different things.
A calm but vocal grassroots presence is a very good thing for the sport. Writing to the Minister and urging that he work with the FCP and not implement some of the things proposed today, that would do us some good.

What we don't need is a grassroots presence where volunteers do shag all work from day to day, leaving it to the 2% to do all the heavy lifting, but as soon as anything goes sideways, start shouting and yelling at the wrong people.

The folks to be angry at here are RTE and the Times, they've essentially manufactured this through Deasy's comments and Mitchell's. They've misreported what the Minister and Commissioner have said (usually reporting the exact opposite of what they said), and refused to talk to us. Them I'm really angry at.

Sparks

Seriously, can we knock that marching idea on the head please?
Feck's sake, can you imagine what the media would do? We'd be protrayed as an IRA parade if we were lucky!

Vegeta

Sparks wrote: »

Seriously, can we knock that marching idea on the head please?
Feck's sake, can you imagine what the media would do? We'd be protrayed as an IRA parade if we were lucky!

Its a pun writers wet dream

Shooters set sights on dail
Gun owners take aim at Minister's proposals

Blazher

Look i know there has been alot of B!tching and BS over the years with all the shooting bodys but now is the time that we get united and stand tall. We need to make our voices heard.

I have been speaking to my TD on the phone and he will get back to me later. I have explained to him that we are sports people. And that we are being painted with the same brush as the crims. I have invited him around to my home to show him the loops we need to jump just to get a permit.

I will speak for myself. I am happy with the type of person who i meet at the range. The shooters in Ireland are put simply "sound" Always bend over backwards to help you.

I am sorry but if i need to stand outside the dail with a big sign every day on my own i will.

sfakiaman

There is so much being said on this issue that it is getting hard to follow. Maybe a seperate thread with up dates from the FCP, replies from TD's etc might make it easier for us all to stay on the same page of the hymn book. A concerted and informed effort will do more good than random protests.

Sparks

Vegeta wrote: »

Its a pun writers wet dream

Shooters set sights on dail
Gun owners take aim at Minister's proposals

Puns would be one thing. I'd be more worried by headlines that would be less benign.

Armed insurgents march on Dail
ERU called in to protect Dail from licenced firearms owners
Massive garda deployment in gun attack nightmare
and so on...

Trojan911

medicman wrote: »

ok, i havnt sent this off yet, noone panic, i just want to sound out the above, too harsh? this will be sent to DoJ today, hopefully.

Way to harsh. It just shows out anger. Tweak it, then fine tune it.

civdef

Marches are fine for students and retirees with nothing else to be doing, but they achieve little or nothing. Get your points together (on paper if necessary), ring your locals TD's and discuss the matter with them in a considered and concise manner, get the backbenchers reporting back to party HQ that this is fierce unpopular with the locals and going to cost them votes. Ideally TD's should understand that more than 1800 geographically dispersed people are annoyed about this (the minister for knee-jerks seemed very keen to stress that not many people would be affected).

Trojan911

civdef wrote: »

Marches are fine for students and retirees with nothing else to be doing, but they achieve little or nothing.

I disagree, but what I would say first is, yes, get pen to paper, email or phone your local TD or Government Minister to highlight your concerns.

If, at a later stage, the corresponding does not appear to be getting the message across then organise a peacful march at/to the Dail.

Large numbers of people gathered together does send a strong message, it also gets good media coverage.

BornToKill

Blazher wrote: »

I am sorry but if i need to stand outside the dail with a big sign every day on my own i will.

You won't be on your own, you'll have the 'Ban Foxhunting & Deerhunting' guy for company. The lone protester thing has really worked for him.