Irish Times reports that all pistols are to be banned

Red Renard

chem wrote: »

I know sparks. Just got that from DOJ press office and stuck it up to piece together all the snip bits flooting around.

Getting press statement later from DOJ on whats been reported today. Press office guy said it wont be a blanket ban on pistols

Considering that on the island of Ireland pistol shooting will still be taking place in makes sense. The Olympic 2012, NI will be the big winner provoiding accommodation and ranges for countries from all around the world.

The troubles lasted 30 years, in all that time civilian firearms were not taken in (NI) reason, the northern Ireland authorities attitude at the time was "we know where they are". Down south the opposite happened. A blanket ban or non renewal of pistol licenses only serves gangland, shows the power they have over our society.

The FCP was set up by the minister / doj in the first place, is it not reasonable to expect as a sign of good faith for the FCP be recalled immediately before any more statements are issued on this matter.

ranger4

So looks like legal law abiding citizens are going to be shafted again, surley some reasonable conclusion can be worked out with the government with this matter, There must be a possitive approach by the shooting body to advertise this unjust decision to the general public and inform the ministers of the past injustice against Legaly law abiding citizens injoying their sport, Every Legal shooter in the country should help by contributing to a mass advertising fund to help all legaly owned firearms owner to continue to injoy their sport ifnot the ban will not only include pistols but every shooting descipline.

Sparks

Possibly trap, but I doubt it. EU firearms law is clear - nations get to decide their own firearms law, EU firearms law cannot countermand or supersede it. Which rather kicks the no-evidence legal argument against a ban in the teeth

bunny shooter

FCP members have used this board previously.

Any chance of a statement from them? Were they briefed in advance on this announcement?

Sparks

In fairness BS, while the question stands, the only real statement we've seen from the Minister doesn't mention any ban, and only the Irish Times has said that there's a blanket ban coming in. Not saying don't ask, but I am saying that we're not sure what the feck is going on at the moment.

Red Renard

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/298716

Sparks

RTE are now reporting this as a crackdown, not a ban. No mention of bans at all in there in fact.

Ahern vows crackdown on handguns
Wednesday, 19 November 2008 10:36

The Minister for Justice has signalled a crackdown on licensed handguns.

Dermot Ahern was responding in the Dáil last night to Opposition criticism of the Government's tackling of organised crime.

The murder of Shane Geoghegan in Limerick prompted the private members' debate, with Fine Gael calling for new measures to crackdown on crime gangs.

Fine Gael justice spokesperson Charlie Flanagan said that by failing to prosecute organised crime-linked murders, the Government is failing the victims, failing their families and failing society.

Party colleague Jimmy Deenihan warned that organised crime in Limerick was about to spread into surrounding areas like his own north Kerry constituency, where he said the Limerick gangs were already in control of the drugs trade.

In response, Mr Ahern promised new legislation, including the covert surveillance bill he announced earlier in the day, as well as multi-agency checkpoints including gardaí, customs, social welfare and environment to put relentless pressure on criminal gangs.

He added that there had been no legally held handguns until a number of judicial decisions in 2004, and that he would not tolerate a proliferation of such weapons.

chem

Minister Dermot Ahern Outlines Handguns Ban



The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Mr. Dermot Ahern, T.D.
today outlined his proposals to ban licensed handguns.

The Minister said the handgun ban would be included in legislation
currently being prepared which will be published shortly.

Minister Ahern said: “Since being appointed, I have made clear my growing
concern at the number and type of handguns being licensed.

“From the early 1970s, in the light of the Troubles, until 2004, all
handguns were banned in this jurisdiction. But following a series of
judicial decisions that is no longer the case and about 1800 handguns have
been licensed. There was no public policy decision to bring about this
situation.

“I am mindful of comments made by Mr. Justice Charleton in his judgement in
a recent firearms case that a reasonable person is entitled to feel alarmed
at the proliferation of handguns. My concern is that unless strong and
decisive action is taken the number of handguns could grow exponentially
and our firearms regime would equate to that of countries such as the
United States. Today we have 1800 legal handguns – in three years time that
number could exceed 4,000 and rising.

“This is completely unacceptable. While I know the vast majority of
licensed gun owners behave responsibly, my paramount concern must be the
protection of the public, particularly against the background of the level
of gun crime which is taking place.”

Some time ago the Minister directed his Department and An Garda Síochána to
carry out an urgent and intensive review of the firearms law. Proposals
arising from that review will be reflected in a Criminal Justice
(Miscellaneous) Provisions Bill which is being prepared as a matter of
urgency and which the Minister will bring forward shortly.

His proposals for radical reform in this area include

· no new licences will be issued for handguns.
· existing licenses will not be renewed unless applications fully
meet the requirements of a radically tightened licensing procedure where
the safety of the community will be paramount
· the Minister will keep under annual review, in consultation with
the Garda Commissioner, the outcome of the licensing procedure and, if the
outcome of that procedure leaves a situation which still poses an
unacceptable risk to the community, will use new powers, which the Bill
will contain, to ban outright any type of firearm.


The Bill will provide for the revocation of any handgun licenses which may
be issued between now and the enactment of the legislation and it is
intended that anyone applying for a handgun license in that period will be
informed of that fact.

The Minister is prepared to make very limited exceptions in relation to
Olympic sports only.

The Minister considers that his proposals will not cause inconvenience to
the vast majority of gun owners, who have had no interest in acquiring hand
guns.

The Minister said "While I regret the need for these proposals, the reality
is that if we were subject to a Dunblane type incident or stolen legal
handguns were used to kill innocent civilians the present situation, which
has not arisen as the result of any policy decision, would be impossible to
justify."

19 November 2008

civdef

Very little room for maneuvre there then.

bigred

chem wrote: »

The Minister is prepared to make very limited exceptions in relation to
Olympic sports only.

Where's the piece from Chem?

<edit>D'Oh - should have read the header?!?!?</edit>

Vegeta

Minister Dermot Ahern Outlines Handguns Ban

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Mr. Dermot Ahern, T.D. today outlined his proposals to ban licensed handguns.
The Minister said the handgun ban would be included in legislation currently being prepared which will be published shortly.
Minister Ahern said: "Since being appointed, I have made clear my growing concern at the number and type of handguns being licensed.
"From the early 1970s, in the light of the Troubles, until 2004, all handguns were banned in this jurisdiction. But following a series of judicial decisions that is no longer the case and about 1800 handguns have been licensed. There was no public policy decision to bring about this situation.
"I am mindful of comments made by Mr. Justice Charleton in his judgement in a recent firearms case that a reasonable person is entitled to feel alarmed at the proliferation of handguns. My concern is that unless strong and decisive action is taken the number of handguns could grow exponentially and our firearms regime would equate to that of countries such as the United States. Today we have 1800 legal handguns – in three years time that number could exceed 4,000 and rising.
"This is completely unacceptable. While I know the vast majority of licensed gun owners behave responsibly, my paramount concern must be the protection of the public, particularly against the background of the level of gun crime which is taking place."
Some time ago the Minister directed his Department and An Garda Síochána to carry out an urgent and intensive review of the firearms law. Proposals arising from that review will be reflected in a Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous) Provisions Bill which is being prepared as a matter of urgency and which the Minister will bring forward shortly.
His proposals for radical reform in this area include
• no new licences will be issued for handguns.
• existing licenses will not be renewed unless applications fully meet the requirements of a radically tightened licensing procedure where the safety of the community will be paramount
• the Minister will keep under annual review, in consultation with the Garda Commissioner, the outcome of the licensing procedure and, if the outcome of that procedure leaves a situation which still poses an unacceptable risk to the community, will use new powers, which the Bill will contain, to ban outright any type of firearm.
The Bill will provide for the revocation of any handgun licenses which may be issued between now and the enactment of the legislation and it is intended that anyone applying for a handgun license in that period will be informed of that fact.
The Minister is prepared to make very limited exceptions in relation to Olympic sports only.
The Minister considers that his proposals will not cause inconvenience to the vast majority of gun owners, who have had no interest in acquiring hand guns.
The Minister said "While I regret the need for these proposals, the reality is that if we were subject to a Dunblane type incident or stolen legal handguns were used to kill innocent civilians the present situation, which has not arisen as the result of any policy decision, would be impossible to justify."
19 November 2008


This is from the DoJ website. This is very bad

xesse

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Minister Dermot Ahern Outlines Handguns Ban

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Mr. Dermot Ahern, T.D. today outlined his proposals to ban licensed handguns.
The Minister said the handgun ban would be included in legislation currently being prepared which will be published shortly.
Minister Ahern said: "Since being appointed, I have made clear my growing concern at the number and type of handguns being licensed.
"From the early 1970s, in the light of the Troubles, until 2004, all handguns were banned in this jurisdiction. But following a series of judicial decisions that is no longer the case and about 1800 handguns have been licensed. There was no public policy decision to bring about this situation.
"I am mindful of comments made by Mr. Justice Charleton in his judgement in a recent firearms case that a reasonable person is entitled to feel alarmed at the proliferation of handguns. My concern is that unless strong and decisive action is taken the number of handguns could grow exponentially and our firearms regime would equate to that of countries such as the United States. Today we have 1800 legal handguns – in three years time that number could exceed 4,000 and rising.
"This is completely unacceptable. While I know the vast majority of licensed gun owners behave responsibly, my paramount concern must be the protection of the public, particularly against the background of the level of gun crime which is taking place."
Some time ago the Minister directed his Department and An Garda Síochána to carry out an urgent and intensive review of the firearms law. Proposals arising from that review will be reflected in a Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous) Provisions Bill which is being prepared as a matter of urgency and which the Minister will bring forward shortly.
His proposals for radical reform in this area include
• no new licences will be issued for handguns.
• existing licenses will not be renewed unless applications fully meet the requirements of a radically tightened licensing procedure where the safety of the community will be paramount
• the Minister will keep under annual review, in consultation with the Garda Commissioner, the outcome of the licensing procedure and, if the outcome of that procedure leaves a situation which still poses an unacceptable risk to the community, will use new powers, which the Bill will contain, to ban outright any type of firearm.
The Bill will provide for the revocation of any handgun licenses which may be issued between now and the enactment of the legislation and it is intended that anyone applying for a handgun license in that period will be informed of that fact.
The Minister is prepared to make very limited exceptions in relation to Olympic sports only.
The Minister considers that his proposals will not cause inconvenience to the vast majority of gun owners, who have had no interest in acquiring hand guns.
The Minister said "While I regret the need for these proposals, the reality is that if we were subject to a Dunblane type incident or stolen legal handguns were used to kill innocent civilians the present situation, which has not arisen as the result of any policy decision, would be impossible to justify."
19 November 2008


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chem

Alot of what ifs and maybes have just banned pistols in this country. And it wont stop here. One sporting "sniper" rifle found in criminals hands will open the doors for fullbore rifle ban. Welcome to the 1970s again folks. Start your emailing etc etc NOW.

The news that's coming in dosen't sound good, and the above statements don't make for good reading.

While I don't own a pistol, I enjoy target shooting and had hoped to eventually get a pistol for the same.

I'm curious as to what will happen if a definitive blanket ban on pistols is legislated.

Will the owners of legally held pistols be compensated? What happened after the ban in the 70's?

dimebag249

I think if we all act we could send this the way of the licence fees increase.

kerryman12

That does not look good. But I am not surprised. All of the stuff in the media the last few days has been softening up the public for this. It is not a coincidence that all of this info from political and law enforcement circles has had a very definate slant to it.

Vegeta

Get writing folks.

In the absence of guidance from NGBs (unless anyone can quote policy for me on this) then I suggest we all act independently

info@justice.ie

let him know how you feel about this.

No knew handguns licenses issued, might as well be a ban. No one new can take up the sport. He has effectively killed it

kerryman12

by all emans write the mails, I will - but stop and think first.
It wont help anyone if a few mails arrieve with very negative/derogatory comments.

dimebag249

kerryman12 wrote: »

by all emans write the mails, I will - but stop and think first.
It wont help anyone if a few mails arrieve with very negative/derogatory comments.

What's the alternative?

Mr. Presentable

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Folks,
As this is a pretty stressful time for us all.[Been working the phones and the coffee machine here all AM].I have noticed a couple of new posters here or low count posters making pretty general enquiries about things handgun related.
Not casting asperation or implying on anyone of them,BUT I do find it odd that suddenly we have this happening just like right now???
And for stuff that can be found by simply reading posts from the last couple of weeks and days???? Or by simply googling matters pertaining the dreaded Glocks???
So ,if you are a Journalist,please SAY SO,and I am sure one of the Mods will gladly direct you to some proper PR people who will comment on this.:)

If you are an anti...or just looking for a scoop to fill colum space please F£$K off..We are in no mood today to entertain you.:mad:

I am one of the "new posters here", and I appreciate your concerns. I had my curiosity piqued by the thread title - I had no idea it was allowed to hold a pistol legally and thought gun licenses were issued for hunting/vermin control, thus my naiive questions.

G17

I've written lots of emails before.

I'm personally waiting on a response from the shooting governing bodies before wasting any more of my time. Individual canvassing clearly doesn't work, I've sent so many mails and haven't even got a reply.

kerryman12

What's the alternative?

the alternative is to:

send the mail but do it with a clear head

Vegeta

dimebag249 wrote: »

What's the alternative?

A very nasty tone may lead to them calling us HARDCORE GUN NUTS and things like that.

A civil tone pointing out the weakness of their argument and the fact you will not vote for a party who proposes legislation like this, is probably a better approach.

Write your mail, re-read it and move any insulting terms. They will put the reader on the back foot and he will be less likely to take what you say seriously, and more likely to fob you off as a lune of some sort.

Vegeta

nipplenuts wrote: »

I am one of the "new posters here", and I appreciate your concerns. I had my curiosity piqued by the thread title - I had no idea it was allowed to hold a pistol legally and thought gun licenses were issued for hunting/vermin control, thus my naiive questions.

Your questions are more than welcome mate, its more like the poster with 1 or 2 posts to their name who stir up sh1te.

We've had a few suspected journalists here in the past and with the calibre( oh I luv da puns) of their reporting lately I can see why folks would have a short fuse with them.

As Sparks says though the more who come here and get their facts straight the better

medicman

I would like to start this e-mail by saying thanks, thanks for ruining my chance to compete in pistol competitions, thanks for ruining my chance to represent my country in sporting events that span the globe, here we are again, the stupid comments that all handguns are being used in murders and crime by gang's, most if not all licenced handguns in Ireland have never been used in any crime, this is the Politicians as usual mouthing off, not representing the true facts, any firearm used in crime is more than likely unlicensed, stolen or brought into this country illegally. I have been applying for a pistol licence for 3 months now, and then this happens, I am an upstanding member of the community, i have 2 other firearm licences and now because the Politicians are panicking I will not be receiving the new licence I have applied for. WHAT?, do the government think I will be going out shooting people?, wake up, get a grip, are ye all mad in government?

I have and will never be involved in any crime, so why am I being victimised? Can you answer this? I feel it is irresponsible of this government to start going down this road, I will be losing a deposit of €400.00, will this government reimburse me?, i don't think so. I have joined a pistol club which cost €300.00, will I be reimbursed? I feel this government has lived past it's use by date and will be replaced soon, the sooner the better.
Also, well done on closing down the pistol clubs around Ireland in the comming months, more out of work, well done on closing down Firearm's dealers in the months ahead, more jobs lost, well, no one could accuse ye of being inconsistent.

I am very annoyed, I have put a vast amount of time, money and effort into my pistol training to compete for this to happen, roll on the next election, bye bye Fianna Fáil and good riddance.

---

ok, i havnt sent this off yet, noone panic, i just want to sound out the above, too harsh? this will be sent to DoJ today, hopefully.

kerryman12

perhaps it could be twiked a little mediceman :P

civdef

I'd reckon a more reasoned less obviously angry tone would be more effective.

PJ Hunter

is the fourcourts that bad. drug addicts surprised if a squad car ever passes. syringes inject but also used like a knife to rob, do they get the same crack down treatment. all our cities are going the same way. dont think the capital city deserves this immage.

bigred

Medicman, don't forget that Fine Gael are the ones that were jumping up and down about this all week too. Don't forget Mr. Deasy's and Ms. Mitchell's comments.

And yes - that mail is a bit hot :eek::eek::eek:

medicman

I know, I know, i'm just p***ed, so much time wasted and annoyed that i will not be able to carry on a sport i like, am using friends px4storm at present with him there of course, and was well into it good grouping at 25m - 75m and getting better.

ok, will tweek it and be more civil, just needed to rant and rave.


medicman.