Irish Times reports that all pistols are to be banned

.50 (MOA)

handgun ban 1972

"The Order will remain in force for one month." +(32 years)????

bunny shooter

".......the Minister will keep under annual review, in consultation with
the Garda Commissioner, the outcome of the licensing procedure and, if the
outcome of that procedure leaves a situation which still poses an
unacceptable risk to the community, will use new powers, which the Bill
will contain, to ban outright any type of firearm."

To me this is the most worrying part of the statement ! They will have the power to ban anything!

FCP has been proven to be the joke I reckoned it was. Despite all the meetings and a conference the Minister has done this. Was the FCP informed of this? It they weren't I believe it proves my point, which I made on this forum a long time ago, that the whole FCP concept was/is a waste of time. If they were notified why didn't they release the info. to us, the people they supposedly represent, in advance?

Letters to TD's won't do too much at this stage.

I agree a march on the Dail would be counter productive.

Fellow shooters, pistols are the start of it not the end. I reckon we will be lucky if we only go back to pre 1972 situation now. Everything acquired in recent years eg fullbore above 22/250, pistols etc will be taken from us and the legislation will be there to back it up. There will be no High Court victories for us from now on:(

EVERY FIREARMS OWNER NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING NOW! Just not sure what as our NGB's are about as much good as a chocolate fireguard.

A new all encompassing national organisation needs to be set up to represent ALL firearms owners irregardless of discipline or sport as a matter of urgency. If every firearms owner donated €1.00 to run it there would be a decent fund there?

TargetWidow

What I cant understand about the power to ban in the future is this...
If they cant tell us now (presumably because they dont know or dont care) how much of this "epidemic of gun crime" is attributable to licenced firearms, then how will they know that licenced firearms of a certain caliber are becoming a danger to the safety of the public in the future so that they can ban them? Or is it as I suspect it is a case of "look lads, the feckn gangs are only getting bigger and TBH we're half afraid to take them on so lets BE SEEN to be doing something, these target shooting crowd are fine and tame, sure look at what we got away with in 1972. We'll just take something offa them everytime it looks like guncrime is getting outta hand and at least we'll look good".

jwshooter

TargetWidow wrote: »

What I cant understand about the power to ban in the future is this...
If they cant tell us now (presumably because they dont know or dont care) how much of this "epidemic of gun crime" is attributable to licenced firearms, then how will they know that licenced firearms of a certain caliber are becoming a danger to the safety of the public in the future so that they can ban them? Or is it as I suspect it is a case of "look lads, the feckn gangs are only getting bigger and TBH we're half afraid to take them on so lets BE SEEN to be doing something, these target shooting crowd are fine and tame, sure look at what we got away with in 1972. We'll just take something offa them everytime it looks like guncrime is getting outta hand and at least we'll look good".

the guards are afraid to shift a few nackers ,let alone take on armed gangs . TBH i cant blame them ,the image of the cops in ireland is back in the 60 s. time for them to get with the program and earn some respect back or get some one in to do it .what are the FACTS how many legally held pistols have been involved in a crime ,how many have been stolen ,how many guns were stole in the last 4 years ,,and of these how many were involved in a crime
can any one answer these 4 questions

Meyer

The present gun ownership regime posed a public safety risk and would be unjustifiable if Ireland experienced a "Dunblane- type incident" or if stolen weapons were used to kill innocent people.
Outlining a programme of "radical" legislative reform on the granting of handgun licences, Mr Ahern said there would be a ban on new licences being issued. Existing licensees would face "radically tightened" controls before licences were reissued, he said.

Link

Apart from what was supposed to be on the books, .ie. monitored alarms, proof that you are actually using your handgun for the purpose stated on the licence, ie at a Gun club and not gathering dust in a safe, and that it is keep in a safe...What other "tightening" of the law could the Government come up with?

Manic Moran

Sparks wrote: »

TBA, like I said over there, you can't conceal a two-foot-long air pistol.

I trust you are not working on the basis of "I'll argue to protect my sport as banning my kind of pistol is stupid. But sure, go ahead and ban any Smith and Wessons"?

is it seriously being argued that a glock is designed to "TARGET SHOOT"

No, the primary purpose was indeed to shoot people. But that's not to say that Glocks cannot be used for target shooting purposes. The factors which go into making a good combat pistol also make it a good target pistol. Ultimately both require good balance, reliability and ergonomics. The Olympics are not the be-all and end-all of sporting events, there are a number of recognised disciplines which use centrefire handguns, and when correctly practised, these sports are every bit as safe as Olympic .22 shooting or archery... actually, they're usually safer than swimming, horse riding or motorcycling as well. There was an excerable piece of legislation proposed in the US last year with this gem:

HR1022 wrote:

a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'

If it's used in a sporting event, it seems very reasonable to me to conclude that it's suitable for use in the sporting event, otherwise people wouldn't be using it as such in the first place!

And if you cannot comprehend the concept of a pistol being used safely, don't go underestimating an Olympic weapon either. More people are killed by that piddly little .22 round than any other.

is the humble rimfire .22 with a moderator not used by certain forces here in Ireland as a target specific round?

Yes. It's cheaper. You can get .22 conversions for Glocks as well, to save you money as you practise.

NTM

jaycee

I have watched the progress of these worrying reports with as much personal interest and concern as anyone.
A number of points have become clear to me in the process.

It is self evident that sections of our national media either are unable to reproduce clear, informed and factual reports of current events, or are willing to deliberately distort the facts to suit some agenda.

Incompetent or dishonest ?, who can say? Perhaps both.

What is clear is that they are an unreliable source of information.
I have seen an amount of scare mongering here too, with theories as to how the shooting sports are doomed in every way, this does nothing to calm or clarify the situation.

What facts can we be clear on therefore?

1. There are members of our society who have no respect for either the rule of law or for human life.

2. The public at large (and I include in this the majority of non shooters) ...know little about either sporting firearms or the onerous existing procedures for licensing them.

3. The same people and many shooters have little or no knowledge of the relevant existing legislation.

4. Political parties whose representatives issue poorly researched and inaccurate statements to the Dáil and media should openly apologise and issue retractions to preserve their reputations and not disgrace themselves.

5. Most of what is contained in the Ministers statements (as reported ) simply reflects the reality that is the current or currently impending legislation.

6. The power of the Minister to propose changes to the legislation is not new.

7. In the current climate it is to be expected that a ‘strongly worded statement ‘would be forthcoming.

8. Clear thinking applied to actual problems rather than potential ones is called for

9. Let us wait until we are presented with any new proposals until we react to them.

10. Let us not contribute to the hysteria and disinformation by creating any more of it ourselves, otherwise we are as guilty as the media etc ..we are complaining about.

kerryman12

This article was taken formt he examiner this morning.

Rew

kerryman12 wrote: »

This article was taken formt he examiner this morning.

I turned that 90 degrees left for you kerryman, see attached.

bunny shooter

jaycee wrote: »

I have watched the progress of these worrying reports with as much personal interest and concern as anyone.
A number of points have become clear to me in the process.

It is self evident that sections of our national media either are unable to reproduce clear, informed and factual reports of current events, or are willing to deliberately distort the facts to suit some agenda.

Incompetent or dishonest ?, who can say? Perhaps both.

What is clear is that they are an unreliable source of information.
I have seen an amount of scare mongering here too, with theories as to how the shooting sports are doomed in every way, this does nothing to calm or clarify the situation.

What facts can we be clear on therefore?

1. There are members of our society who have no respect for either the rule of law or for human life.

2. The public at large (and I include in this the majority of non shooters) ...know little about either sporting firearms or the onerous existing procedures for licensing them.

3. The same people and many shooters have little or no knowledge of the relevant existing legislation.

4. Political parties whose representatives issue poorly researched and inaccurate statements to the Dáil and media should openly apologise and issue retractions to preserve their reputations and not disgrace themselves.

5. Most of what is contained in the Ministers statements (as reported ) simply reflects the reality that is the current or currently impending legislation.

6. The power of the Minister to propose changes to the legislation is not new.

7. In the current climate it is to be expected that a ‘strongly worded statement ‘would be forthcoming.

8. Clear thinking applied to actual problems rather than potential ones is called for

9. Let us wait until we are presented with any new proposals until we react to them.

10. Let us not contribute to the hysteria and disinformation by creating any more of it ourselves, otherwise we are as guilty as the media etc ..we are complaining about.

Direct from DOJ site. Are they incapable of reporting what minister said too ?

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Minister%20Dermot%20Ahern%20Outlines%20Handguns%20Ban

Nice touch Mr. Minister sugesting a Dunblane type incident could happen here too. Seems a lot of e-mails have fallen on deaf ears!

jwshooter

bunny shooter wrote: »

Direct from DOJ site. Are they incapable of reporting what minister said too ?

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Minister%20Dermot%20Ahern%20Outlines%20Handguns
%20Ban

Nice touch Mr. Minister sugesting a Dunblane type incident could happen here too. Seems a lot of e-mails have fallen on deaf ears!

cant open that bunny

bunny shooter

give me a minute

bunny shooter

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Minister%20Dermot%20Ahern%20Outlines%20Handguns%20Ban

try that one JWshooter;)

BryanL

So there is going to be "CAP" ON LICENCES?

I don't see how , "first come first served" is a anyway to run a gun policy!
bryan

bunny shooter

Re the piece in the Examiner......................Mark Dennehy of NTSA...............name rings a bell........................oh ya our own Sparks......................seems as it's only Glocks NTSA aren't too upset.

As for NARGC well that's MR. Crofton, God's gift to shooting in Ireland :rolleyes:

I am a member of NARGC and apparently I am happy with the announcement, well Mr. Crofton I AM NOT ! But then again if you asked me in advance you might know that.

Why are NARGC commenting on handguns? Are we allowed to use them to shoot game now?

bunny shooter

BryanL wrote: »

So there is going to be "CAP" ON LICENCES?

I don't see how , "first come first served" is a anyway to run a gun policy!
bryan

Seems some shooting organisations are using the I'm alright sod the rest of ye attitude too

rrpc

Just to point out before someone replies on behalf of any organisation, the following post by Devore

DeVore wrote:

As such, with prior notice (such as this thread which I'm going to mail all of them), any officer or representative of any national or regional association who posts on this forum or the sub forums herein, either explicitly or under pretense or subterfuge to promote their association either explicitly or to promote their associations standpoint by subterfuge, will be deemed to have implicitly ACCEPTED A CHARGE OF €950 euro PER POST MADE. Posts made in this manner may (and most likely WILL) be removed without refund.

G17

bunny shooter wrote: »

Re the piece in the Examiner......................Mark Dennehy of NTSA...............name rings a bell........................oh ya our own Sparks......................seems as it's only Glocks NTSA aren't too upset.

Bunny, you're being a little harsh.

I'm on my third Glock and have won competitons (well some) with them so I'll be super sad to see mine go if it does. But surely you're not taking a newspapaer article seriously, have you been reading all the nonsense lately, comments not printed in context etc. I realise you're upset as we all are but I have to defend those who have put shoulder firmly to the wheel in the past.

I think you should edit your post and not type in anger. Again, I understand your frustration completely. But lets not attack each other please!!!

jwshooter

the narge is a one man show bunny ,can people not see what is going on here ,the practical, tactical shooters call it what you will the powers that be dont want irish citizen's running about shooting glocks and the like ,learning combat shooting . the rest of the shooting bodies are thrown them to the lions so to speak to stay in favour with the state . but it has been coming for a long time

Sparks

bunny shooter wrote: »

Re the piece in the Examiner......................Mark Dennehy of NTSA...............name rings a bell........................oh ya our own Sparks......................seems as it's only Glocks NTSA aren't too upset.

Actually, I kinda am since that quote is half a sentence from two hours on the phone. Completely missed what I was saying to him (or just wanted to miss, or got edited after he submitted it).

sfakiaman

bunny shooter wrote: »

Re the piece in the Examiner......................Mark Dennehy of NTSA...............name rings a bell........................oh ya our own Sparks......................seems as it's only Glocks NTSA aren't too upset.


This is exactly what I am worried about. It's the old divide and conquer. Also the minister is trying to find out through the media just how much he can get away with.

If the NTSA thinks it can roll over they should remember the situation in the UK. Post Dunblane they banned centre fire pistols. Having got away with that they banned rimfire also.

We are all in the same boat here lads.

dresden8

"Sniper" rifles next.

Thanks Dermo. See you at the ballot box.

sfakiaman

Sparks wrote: »

Actually, I kinda am since that quote is half a sentence from two hours on the phone. Completely missed what I was saying to him (or just wanted to miss, or got edited after he submitted it).

Just read this from Sparks,

Maybe the only way to deal with the media is by press release with the caveat that the whole release be printed

Grizzly 45

The Examiner article just shows how with a little tweaking and twisting of words,you can turn round and make it look like we as gunowners are actually happy to give up our stuff,or throw Glock owners to the lions.:mad:
Fact is,we cant expect ANY reasonable factual reporting from the press or TV here.So dont trust them and their reporting an inch .

We have to IMO keep hammering on a one to one basis at our local TDs,keep the Min of Justice and FGs email boxes ,phone and fax lines and clinics jammed solid with the same message 24/7,that they are WRONG about usand this decision.
Second we need some publicity,somthing well orderd that would get some media attention anything obviously that involves firearms is going to get the press to it.So maybe we organise a open day for TDs etc in one of the clubs near Dublin for them to come and try and see for themselves.IOW a well staged PR exercise???

chem

Pistols have been banned from anyone who doesnt have one already. Anyone with one already may have to have a large bank balance, and be ready to hire an unemployied builder to install a bank vault in there home.

FEAR of what might happen or could happen is why they are banning pistols. They couldnt even offer up one hard piece of evidence to back them up.

Talk of the troubles, Dunblane, US, Finland, criminals etc....

Handguns MIGHT reach 4000 in a year or twos time.

Should we close the M50 because there might be a crash on it? Should we cap the amount of cars in the country because our roads cant take anymore traffic?

I cant see them allowing anyone to keep pistols here for to long. After the local elections they will bring in the complete ban and maybe start a cap on fullbore rifles.

The minister said it himself:

• the Minister will keep under annual review, in consultation with the Garda Commissioner, the outcome of the licensing procedure and, if the outcome of that procedure leaves a situation which still poses an unacceptable risk to the community, will use new powers, which the Bill will contain, to ban outright any type of firearm.

a situation which still poses an unacceptable risk to the community. Where was the unacceptable risk to the community to justify the handgun ban?

Everyones shooting sport is at risk now. Garda commissioner sees a troll down the bottom of his garden with a rifle (ban rifles) Fairy stopped in Galway with an air pistol (ban air pistols)

No facts needed. No shots need to be fired. But a make believe FEAR of what MIGHT happen can now get firearms BANNED OUTRIGHT. ITS NOW WRITEN IN LAW.

WE STILL LIVE IN AN ISLAND OF FAIRYTAILES AND MAGIC!!!

Vegeta

Anyone get a response from the DoJ?

I'm not going to send any more letters until the FCP has met again. Hopefully they will give us some direction on how to proceed.

BryanL

seems it might be prudent to get a fullbore rifle licence , just in case!
Bryan

G17

Vegeta wrote: »

Anyone get a response from the DoJ?

I'm not going to send any more letters until the FCP has met again. Hopefully they will give us some direction on how to proceed.

Not yet.


+1

.270 remington

where is the minister getting his figures from .can he prove that any legally held guns have been involved in crime.i can see many legal issues if he cannot prove same.

Sparks

Legal issues like what? I mean, I can see ethical and moral issues aplenty, but actual legal ones?