Irish Times reports that all pistols are to be banned

gofaster_s13

kevin7898 wrote: »

well i dont own a pistol but a good few do it worng wath there done the never get a way with it or well they there a sad crowd

WTF

LB6

i was thinking that too - what he said with some time applied to it - i think is -
"well i dont own a pistol but a good few do it worng wath there done the never get a way with it or well they there a sad crowd - well I don't own a pistol, but a good few do, it's wrong what their doing, they will never get away with it, or will they? - they're a sad crowd" or something along those lines!

However we look at it - it's not good news for the law abiding ppl in our community.

Trojan911

.270 remington wrote: »

i wonder will we get any compensation for our guns/equipment

I was one of those in the UK when the Labour Government revoked all Section 1's after the tragic circumstances of Dunblane. We were fully compensated for our handguns. But that was the UK.

Hagar

Saw this on TV3 News this morning, they showed a clip of a Garda showing off several handguns and a mini machinepistol complete with an enormous silencer. Talk about spin and demonising something.:mad:

Grizzly 45

Wouldnt hold my breath on that one!With the Gombeen politics that are pulled on us here regurlary it would be proably be an insult anyway.!!
Best thing we can do now is ,move them on ,up and out of here.

Vegeta

Ok so we need to get a reply from the Minister (or his office) on this

We are being a bit knee jerk at the moment. ourselves, the papers and other new media have been quite disappointing over the last few weeks. Their levels of research are staggeringly shallow.

Anyone get word back from the Dept. of Justice or the Minister himself?

Sparks

tba wrote: »

Its not like all guns have been banned, just ones that are easy to hide.

Ever try to hide a two-foot long olympic air pistol? It's longer than the sawn-off shotguns you see used by criminals to hold up post offices.

kevin7898

sorry lb6 im new at this

sixpointfive

Can someone fill me in here, am i right in saying that my .22 target pistol licence will not be renew in july next year and i will have to hand it to a gun dealer to be sold, ? who the fcuk is going to buy it??????? so im now set to loose €1500+ because of the criminal element and because of the new buzz word "GLOCKS", i doubt there are too many "Glock".22 pistols out there or scumbags shooting each other with them, i wouldnt be so pi55ed off if they would compensate us for them and if i can get another rifle instead but i think that is a non runner

Sparks

And my air pistol as well, if what we've heard is true.
The problem is, we don't know if it's true or not - the Times and RTE have in the last week shown they really couldn't be bothered to even quote people correctly in the gist of what they're saying, let alone the words - see RRPC's point above about how the Commissioner said one thing, and the papers reported he'd said the complete opposite.

Sparks

Vegeta wrote: »

Ok so we need to get a reply from the Minister (or his office) on this

I've asked for one but not gotten a reply yet. I think the shooting bodies are currently looking for the same thing, but noone's gotten any reply I've heard of yet.

bigred

When someone gets something solid from DOJ or the ministers office, will they just sticky it - we'll get lost in this thread otherwise

gofaster_s13

How long before the few infamous superintendants who dislike .223's etc start disputing having to issue licenses for these now that they have the public on their side:mad:

Sparks

merging this with the main thread on this topic.
TBA, like I said over there, you can't conceal a two-foot-long air pistol.

Sparks

Will do bigred.

civdef

Some time back an awful lot of us rang TDs to protest disproportionate increases in licence fees, time to do the same again. TD's need to appreciate this is going to affect them at local level.

sixpointfive

This is so irish, it doesnt affect the criminals one bit and it wont have any effect on the gun crime, they will still be running around with their famed glocks blasting each other any anyone else unfortunate enough to be close by

chem

Just off phone to DOJ press office. Statement to be released later today by them! Getting it emailed to me. Bloke on phone might have let slip a small bit of info to me. He said it wont be a blanket ban on pistols

Some hope so???

Vegeta

civdef wrote: »

Some time back an awful lot of us rang TDs to protest disproportionate increases in licence fees, time to do the same again. TD's need to appreciate this is going to affect them at local level.

I wholeheartedly agree with you civdef. If this turns out to be true then we have to show what it means to us.

Personally I am going to wait for clarification before I start the mailing campaign. E-mails and letters with overly aggressive and negative tone (not that I would write one like this), when in reality there is nothing new being announced, will not paint us in the best light.

This could genuinely be a case where the Minister implies he is going to implement the restricted lists and the media take it as a ban.

I know the NGBs must desperately be looking for clarification so lets see how they get on.

civdef

Agreed, holding off till we get clarification si the way to go on this, media reports are far too unreliable to depend on.

Ronan|Raven

I am a non shooter but have a few friends who are, one or two of them own pistols. This is an absolute joke. Talk about panic legislation and as always coming down hardest on the law abiding citizens. If they think this will make a damn bit of difference to gun deaths in this country they are more deluded than I thought. If someone wants a weapon for the purposes of criminality they can still easily get one.

It wasn't me!

tba wrote: »

Well concealment is the reason, I have no problem with it frankly. Rifles and shotguns are still legal.

Shotguns get sawn off down to pistol sizes without any real hassle, so that argument doesn't really hold water, to be honest.

The thing about rifles and shotguns is that you can't practise pistol disciplines with them, and why should people have to give up their popular international sport because some scumbag has a pistol? The figures demonstrate the fact that there is no connection between gun crime and licensed firearms, the availability or non-availability thereof.

nipplenuts wrote: »

As a non shooter;

Where do you practise with your pistols?

Is the problem people having their legit guns stolen for use by criminals?

Is 1700 Glocks not a lot for what's a fringe hobby?

If you have proper managed clubs could a compromise not be that the guns are not taken home?

Pistol training is done in approved and inspected ranges with trained range officers, safety precautions and personnel.

No, the number of firearms stolen is absolutely miniscule. I seem to recall a figure posted here of 115 in the past five years. Out of 234,000 or so, that's not even a drop in the ocean. There's also no data to suggest that these are then used in crimes. My own suspicion would be that the majority are opportune thefts and the firearms are quickly lost or destroyed afterwards.

The 1700 Glocks bit, as has been asserted, is completely false. There are about 1700 pistols in total, of which the majority are air or smallbore pistols. Very few will be Glocks, probably 5-10%.

The suggestion has been made before that people would store their pistols in their clubs, but the suggestion is pretty obviously ridiculous, when you outline that you then have perhaps dozens of pistols in one place, with weekend and some evening attendance, generally in the middle of nowehere. Such a measure is the single fastest and most surefire way to increase the number of thefts of firearms by those who do have an agenda.

Unless people have data to indicate that licensed firearms are contributing to gun-crime in Ireland, and pistols in particular, I find it extremely disingenuous to impose further sanctions and restrictions, and a complete ban is just a disgusting and pathetic way to make a scapegoat and to attempt to direct public ill-feeling against the most law-abiding group in society.

G17

Vegeta wrote: »

I know the NGBs must desperately be looking for clarification so lets see how they get on.

Yes please wait and see everyone.

For anyone who's reading this who hasn't an idea about sporting handgun shooting and can't understand what all the fuss is about.
This is like the people in Kilkenny waiting to hear if hurls are about to be banned.

Many of us are sick in the stomach waiting for news.

civdef

An important point to be borne in mind in relation to all this is that thousands of euros were spent by each indivdual shooter in meeting Garda security requirements before getting a licence in relation to safes, monitored alarms etc.
All of which seems to be now ignored as the risk of firearms being stolen for criminal use is being put forward as part of the justification for new restrictions.
This constitutes a significant finiancial grievance, in addition to the loss of a sport.

rrpc

+ 1 to Vegeta and CivDef

We need to wait for a definitive statement from the DoJ or the Minister. I have no faith in the media to properly report the news and the little snippets I heard of the Minister in the Dail last night did not involve the word ban. The word I heard was curtailment.

Having said that I didn't hear all he said so I don't want to raise false hopes.

So chill pills all round and wait for the facts to be revealed. Everything that could have been done has been done at this stage, and thanks to everyone who lent a hand or an email to the situation.

gunhappy_ie

i spent the last hour and a half posting a rely.... i the had to relog in and i couldnt .... lost everythin i wrote !!!

but another point... look at the uk ... they banned pistols... look at there knife crime go through the roof !

and do you think that they will stop at pistols..... i suspect anything militaty looking will eventally go .. this will also affect airsoft fire.. (whatever ya wanna call them)

Vegeta

rrpc wrote: »

I have no faith in the media to properly report the news

Really am amazed at this myself.

So chill pills all round and wait for the facts to be revealed.

Dr. rrpc prescribes

bigred

G17 wrote: »

Yes please wait and see everyone.

For anyone who's reading this who hasn't an idea about sporting handgun shooting and can't understand what all the fuss is about.
This is like the people in Kilkenny waiting to hear if hurls are about to be banned.

Many of us are sick in the stomach waiting for news.

The hurley I have at the front door is 1000 times more dangerous than my single shot air pistol - especially when the wife has it :rolleyes:

Kimber

Have our NGB's or our Firearms Legislative Panel made any statement anyone?

chem

Statement by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, in Debate
on Fine Gael Private Members’ Motion on Crime
Dáil, 18 November, 2008

The use of weapons by gang members is a matter of particular concern. I
fully support the comments which the Garda Commissioner made at the Public
Accounts Committee last week about licensed handguns, and, as he
acknowledged at the meeting, this is a matter which I have raised with him
on many occasions.

In particular, I have made clear since I became Minister for Justice,
Equality and Law Reform my concern at the number and type of handguns being
licensed.

That is why, at my direction, my Department and the Garda Síochána have
engaged in an urgent and intensive review of the firearms law.

That review is now in its final stages.

In addition, work is well under way on the preparation of a Criminal
Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill which, among other things, will
give effect to the proposals emerging from that review.

My bottom line is this:

I do not believe that as a matter of public policy we as a people can
countenance a proliferation of handguns. While I recognise that the vast
majority of handgun owners are responsible people, as Minister my concern
is the safety of the public, particularly at a time of concern about gun
crime.

I will make a detailed statement in the near future on this matter.

Tonight I will simply record the fact that from the early seventies, in the
light of the Troubles, until a few years ago all handguns were banned in
this jurisdiction.

Following a series of judicial decisions that is no longer the case. There
was no public policy decision to bring about this situation.

It is the case that the Criminal Justice Act 2006 made a number of changes
strengthening our firearms code. One of the purposes of the Criminal
Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill will be to make a number of
technical changes which are necessary to ensure that some of those changes
can be brought into operation effectively.

But in the light of the situation which we face, I do not believe that
those measures on their own will be enough – I will be going further.

I am conscious of the remarks made by Mr Justice Charleton in a recent
judgement in a firearms case, and indeed remarks made by a number of
Deputies in the House, which reflect my concerns.

The increasing prevalence of handguns has not come about as a result of any
deliberate policy decision by the Government or this House. That situation
is clearly unsatisfactory, and I will be bringing forward effective
proposals to deal comprehensively with it.

There is simply no excuse for the type of gangland activities which we have
witnessed. Members of gangs bear complete personal responsibility for
their deeds.

It is no contradiction of that to point out that in the longer term we risk
condemning future generations if we do not face up to the deep seated
social problems which have beset parts of Limerick. It is in recognition
of that fact that my Department was instrumental in initiating and
supporting the Limerick Regeneration Project led by John Fitzgerald.

Indeed as recently as yesterday the Secretary General of my Department was
in Limerick making a presentation to the Board of the regeneration project
dealing with developments in relation to the services connected with or
under the aegis of my Department. We totally support that regeneration
process and the unprecedented increase in the number of Gardaí is just one
element of my Department’s response.

I do not stand before the House tonight to claim our criminal justice
system is perfect and needs no change. For my part, I pledge as Minister
to keep under constant and intensive review all aspects of the operation of
our criminal justice system and continue to bring forward whatever changes
are sensible and required. But it serves only to demoralise those in the
front line who have to face down the evil doers in our midst not to
recognise what is being achieved.

It is against that background that I commend the amendment to the House.