Motorway redesignation Phase #2 released

Stark

70mph is the default limit on a UK dual carriageway. 60mph is a special speed limit that they impose in areas like you mention. Just like most Irish national routes will have a 100km/hr limit by default and special speed limits where there are roundabouts, built-up areas, traffic signals, roadworks etc.

cherrypicker55 wrote:

For a dual carriageway to allow its 70mph limit, it must meet various criteria, suprised as an adavanced motorist you never knew this.

If you read the UK highway code, it will say that dual carriageways are 70mph unless otherwise specified.

cherrypicker555

cherrypicker555 wrote: »

No most dual carriageways have a 60mph or 40mph limit, because they have roundabouts, traffic lights, lanes not wide enoough to have a 70 mph limit and many other factors.

.

You obviously don't drive on many UK rural dual carriageways then...
Even with roundabouts they are still NSL, you're referring to suburban dual carriageways.

cherrypicker555

Stark wrote: »

70mph is the default limit on a UK dual carriageway. 60mph is a special speed limit that they impose in areas like you mention. Just like most Irish national routes will have a 100km/hr limit by default and special speed limits where there are roundabouts, built-up areas, traffic signals, roadworks etc.



If you read the UK highway code, it will say that dual carriageways are 70mph unless otherwise specified.

Yes and in most places its otherwise specified. Hence 40 in urban areas and 60 in many others are the norm.

cherrypicker555

Deleted User wrote: »

You obviously don't drive on many UK rural dual carriageways then...
Even with roundabouts they are still NSL, you're referring to suburban dual carriageways.

Dual carriageways with roundabouts have a restricted limit.

L1011

cherrypicker555 wrote: »

No most dual carriageways have a 60mph or 40mph limit, because they have roundabouts, traffic lights, lanes not wide enoough to have a 70 mph limit and many other factors.

For a dual carriageway to allow its 70mph limit, it must meet various criteria inc a hard shoulder, suprised as an adavanced motorist you never knew this.

Most urban dual carriageways would be 40mph due to being urban and in the UK as with here there are huge quantities of urban DC. Rural dual carriageways are 70mph by a huge majority - despite having median breaches and private accesses. And there is no requirement for a hard shoulder, only a median. The median is the sole element in law which differentiates between defaulting to 60 and defaulting to 70.

cherrypicker555 wrote: »

I drive in the republic all the time and see the carnage and poor planning.

Thats not an answer. When and where. I suspect it was a bloody long time ago.

Actually, I can't be bothered arguing with you any more. You have a very distinct agenda, anyone can use the search posts function to see you've done very little on boards.ie other than attempt to denigrate Ireland compared to the UK. Its trolling, subtle, but trolling none the less.

cherrypicker555

cherrypicker555 wrote: »

Dual carriageways with roundabouts have a restricted limit.

The A45 at wellingborough is one that has a roundabout & NSL is one that immediately springs to mind, a couple on the A55 near llanrwst (sp) as well.

Steviemak

Can we get back on topic and ignore the obvious attempts by cherrypicker to wind people up.

Thanks

Back OT, I know that the Athlone bypass was included in the original list of roads to be redesignated, but was it approved?

Stupido

It will be as the rest of the N6 is being redesignated.

Would be stupid to have a small stretch of DC in the middle of the route. I think it needs an upgrade though, at least a resurface.

There is talk of a second bypass of athlone, possibly south of the town, which would take the local traffic, thus allowing the existing bypass to be motorway.

Steviemak

Stupido wrote: »

It will be as the rest of the N6 is being redesignated.

Would be stupid to have a small stretch of DC in the middle of the route. I think it needs an upgrade though, at least a resurface.

There is talk of a second bypass of athlone, possibly south of the town, which would take the local traffic, thus allowing the existing bypass to be motorway.

I think now is the time to resurface before it has a motorway at either end.

marmurr1916

cherrypicker555 wrote: »

70 is the max NSL on Dual carriageways, 60 is the normal limit. although it varies depending on the strech of dual carriageway, in urban areas it can be 40, its mostly 60. Dual carriageways with roundabouts have a 60mph limit.

70mph is the 'normal' limit on most rural dual-carriageways in the UK, whether they have roundabouts or not.

For example, the dual-carriageway section of the A96 between Aberdeen and Inverurie has a speed-limit of 70mph despite having several roundabouts and no hard-shoulders.

Your assertion that UK dual-carriageways with roundabouts and no hard-shoulders cannot have a 70mph limit is incorrect.

OT, Furet's posts indicate that under-construction sections of the MIUs (plus the Gort-Tuam road) will be motorways on completion.

However, there is uncertainty over some sections of existing roads which have been proposed for re-designation.

It seems that this uncertainty is down to dithering by the minister (or inefficiency) than cost considerations.

Surely the cost of replacing existing signposts and changing existing road-markings must be minimal in the context of the overall Transport 21/roads budget?

marmurr1916

cherrypicker555 wrote: »

Obviously dual carriageways in urban areas have bus stops, no hard shoulder etc.

As do dual-carriageways in many rural areas.

The A90 is the example I'm most familiar with: no hard shoulders for its entire length; bus stops, lay-bys, gaps in median, private accesses, right-hand turns etc are all frequent.

Despite this, the standard speed limit on this route is 70mph in rural areas.

Quite frankly, there's little difference between the standard of most motorways in Scotland and Ireland.

cherrypicker555 wrote: »

...apart from less wire barriers, better lighting, service stations, wider lanes, bigger signage,rumble strips, etc, etc, etc.

I don't think you're very familiar with the Scottish motorway network: the M9, M90, M80, M73 and other routes are very similar in quality to motorways in Ireland.

There is even a section of the M9 which has no hard shoulder on either carriageway.

Instead it has a series of 'emergency lay-bys', not all of which have emergency phones.

Also wire barriers are not the norm on the Irish motorway network.

Recently completed sections have concrete barriers as will all sections which are currently under construction.

By the time these are completed, only the M1 and parts of the M7, the M9 and M4 will have wire barriers.

The rest of the network will have mainly concrete barriers.

Steviemak

Steviemak wrote: »

I think now is the time to resurface before it has a motorway at either end.

I believe that upgrading the Athlone bypass is included as part of the N/M6 Athlone Ballinasloe project.

KevR

Deleted User wrote: »

I believe that upgrading the Athlone bypass is included as part of the N/M6 Athlone Ballinasloe project.

What sort of upgrade work will they carry out on it do you know?

KevR

KevR wrote: »

What sort of upgrade work will they carry out on it do you know?

Not sure, I read somewhere that the junctions would be "improved" the main carriageways resurfaced and new signs erected, this is necessary as the junctions have been renumbered and the existing signs are worn. (can't link as I don't know the url)

clon

Looks like all the designations will be approved as the nra have tendered for line and stud replacements on all the daul carriageways that are affected by the motorway re-designations.When you add up all the existing dual carriageway distances it exactly adds to what needs to be currently changed on all routes under review.

http://www.nra.ie/TendersRecruitment/TenderNotices/

Amtmann

Good news. Thanks clon, well spotted.

BluntGuy

Great find Clon! Thank you.

At least this shows us that money doesn't seem to be the issue I might thought it would be.

Of course this is by no means a confirmation. It's still up to DoT and the minister.

Glad to hear that Watergrasshill-Dunkettle will be sorted out. I also hope the contract includes burning off the "N8" markings on the road because they will just confuse people.

AugustusMaximus

clon wrote: »

Looks like all the designations will be approved as the nra have tendered for line and stud replacements on all the daul carriageways that are affected by the motorway re-designations.When you add up all the existing dual carriageway distances it exactly adds to what needs to be currently changed on all routes under review.

http://www.nra.ie/TendersRecruitment/TenderNotices/

Some fine forensic work there.

Looking at the N6, it appears that the Athlone bypass will not be resurfaced!

childoforpheus

Am I seeing this right, is the N17/N18 Gort to Tuam scheme gone to tender?
http://www.e-tenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=JAN113131

marmurr1916

childoforpheus wrote: »

Am I seeing this right, is the N17/N18 Gort to Tuam scheme gone to tender?
http://www.e-tenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=JAN113131

Yes. I posted that link ages ago (well about 10 days back).;)

marmurr1916

clon wrote: »

Looks like all the designations will be approved as the nra have tendered for line and stud replacements on all the daul carriageways that are affected by the motorway re-designations.When you add up all the existing dual carriageway distances it exactly adds to what needs to be currently changed on all routes under review.
http://www.nra.ie/TendersRecruitment/TenderNotices/

Nice!

It means an extra 112.7 km of motorway (39.9 km on the N2, N4, N6 and N8, 36.8 km on the N7, N18 and N20, 36 km on the N11) added to the network.

Amtmann

This is indeed good news, but let's not forget how coy the DoT is being about the whole thing. Still, tenders for the delineation and studding must be in by 5 March...

Also, there was no mention of sign replacement on any of those tender notices. Does the NRA have a long-standing contract with Rennicks already?

mysterious

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Nice!

It means an extra 112.7 km of motorway (39.9 km on the N2, N4, N6 and N8, 36.8 km on the N7, N18 and N20, 36 km on the N11) added to the network.

So they are bluifying the N18 and N17 yet have a standard DC at ennis with compact GSJs..

Why does there have to be such lunacy all the time in matters such as this, that doesnt need to be created at all.

Why couldnt they have just built proper slips at the Ennis bypass. I just don't get it. The Ennis bypass has traffic levels 15,000 a day more than most of the inter urbans. Why didnt the Ennis bypass get a HQDC status

D.L.R.

mysterious wrote: »

So they are bluifying the N18 and N17 yet have a standard DC at ennis with compact GSJs..

But its good that these slightly inferior roads qualify. Smaller junctions shouldn't automatically mean all-purpose road. Bottom line, Ennis BP is still a great road worthy of an M.

Chris_533976

mysterious wrote: »

So they are bluifying the N18 and N17 yet have a standard DC at ennis with compact GSJs..

Why does there have to be such lunacy all the time in matters such as this, that doesnt need to be created at all.

Why couldnt they have just built proper slips at the Ennis bypass. I just don't get it. The Ennis bypass has traffic levels 15,000 a day more than most of the inter urbans. Why didnt the Ennis bypass get a HQDC status

It was built as standard DC. The main junctions (Ennis) are full long sliproads.

The compact GSJs are at places like Barefield, where only one or two cars per day ever use them.

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

So they are bluifying the N18 and N17 yet have a standard DC at ennis with compact GSJs..

There are (some) compact GSJs remaining on the UK motorway network and they were the original design standard there for parts of the M5 and M6 - once the merge slip on the mainline is long enough they're grand - assuming drivers know how to use them!

marmurr1916

MYOB wrote: »

There are (some) compact GSJs remaining on the UK motorway network and they were the original design standard there for parts of the M5 and M6 - once the merge slip on the mainline is long enough they're grand - assuming drivers know how to use them!

Some of the merge slips on Poland's A4 motorway (the section from Wroclaw west towards the German border) are very, very short.

Plus there are several rest areas which are basically glorified lay-bys with a cafe and toilets along this stretch.

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

This is indeed good news, but let's not forget how coy the DoT is being about the whole thing. Still, tenders for the delineation and studding must be in by 5 March...

We musn't forget though that the NRA's last Delineation contract took six and a half months to go from deadline to contract award. If we're looking at similar timescale here, then perhaps my original somewhat pessimistic prediction of the redesignations not taking place until September 24th this year may not be so ridiculous after all.

Also, there was no mention of sign replacement on any of those tender notices. Does the NRA have a long-standing contract with Rennicks already?

I didn't see any signage replacement contracts on E-Tenders for the last round of redesignations. They must just have a contract with them.

D.L.R wrote:

But its good that these slightly inferior roads qualify. Smaller junctions shouldn't automatically mean all-purpose road. Bottom line, Ennis BP is still a great road worthy of an M.

Exactly. Once we start getting to finnicky about these things we end up no-where. The Athlone Bypass is certainly below our normal design standards for a motorway, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't have appropiate restrictions.

As for the N11, I want to see that M'd so badly. Not least to shut up the councillors and halt their hidden intentions to reck the road with development.