Motorway redesignation Phase #2 released

Chris_533976

No news yet but just something interesting.

I got a lift from Dublin to Galway the other day, and the person driving (not mentioning names ) went at 120 along the Athlone bypass.

It is absolutely fine IMO at 120kmh, the junctions arent anywhere near as close as I thought they were and the bends are perfectly ok at 120. If this doesnt get redesigated it will be absolutely ridiculous and a complete shambles.

No I'm not giving names, and no I wasnt driving the car. I stick to speed limits, no matter how ridiculous they are

Chris_533976

Chris_533976 wrote: »

I got a lift from Dublin to Galway the other day, and the person driving (not mentioning names ) went at 120 along the Athlone bypass.

It is absolutely fine IMO at 120kmh, the junctions arent anywhere near as close as I thought they were and the bends are perfectly ok at 120. If this doesnt get redesigated it will be absolutely ridiculous and a complete shambles.

Going west, Most motorists don't drop their speed, but going east, many will do 100 (ish) till they get to J8.

dowlingm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

the junctions arent anywhere near as close as I thought they were and the bends are perfectly ok at 120.

Yeah but if it's redesignated the likely traffic speed will be 120+10-20% without vicious enforcement. How safe is it at 135-145?

dowlingm

dowlingm wrote: »

Yeah but if it's redesignated the likely traffic speed will be 120+10-20% without vicious enforcement. How safe is it at 135-145?

Very unlikely for experieced users to chance going much over 120 along some sections of that bypass, the bends do feel a bit tight at 120Kmh.

It may even be necessary to erect warning signs for the bends.

mysterious

Chris_533976 wrote: »

No news yet but just something interesting.

I got a lift from Dublin to Galway the other day, and the person driving (not mentioning names ) went at 120 along the Athlone bypass.

It is absolutely fine IMO at 120kmh, the junctions arent anywhere near as close as I thought they were and the bends are perfectly ok at 120. If this doesnt get redesigated it will be absolutely ridiculous and a complete shambles.

No I'm not giving names, and no I wasnt driving the car. I stick to speed limits, no matter how ridiculous they are

The interchanges are close:rolleyes:
They are literally one right after the other when the you include the merges, the longest gap is the actual bridge ffs.

Also since the M6 is straight at either side of the Atlone bypass, this will exaggerate the curve on the actual bypass.

KevR

Chris_533976 wrote: »

It is absolutely fine IMO at 120kmh, the junctions arent anywhere near as close as I thought they were and the bends are perfectly ok at 120. If this doesnt get redesigated it will be absolutely ridiculous and a complete shambles.

Agree. 120kmh is a perfectly safe speed limit for the Athlone bypass. The bends seemed fine to me at 120kmh, although I wouldn't go any faster than that on the bypass.

mysterious

KevR wrote: »

Agree. 120kmh is a perfectly safe speed limit for the Athlone bypass. The bends seemed fine to me at 120kmh, although I wouldn't go any faster than that on the bypass.

Why would even question to go any faster than that?

I seriously doubt the curves on this road, is built to 130kmh deisgn speed limit! Kev just cus you think it's perfectly safe, doensn't mean for a fact it's perfectly safe

You have 3/4 interchanges if not more spaced all within 3km, with curves and the biridge itself doesn't even have a HS.

KevR

I think it's very odd that the Athlone Bypass has a speed limit of 100kmh when the single carriageway N6 from West of Athlone to Oranmore also has a speed limit. The Athlone Bypass is obviously considerably safer/better. They both should not have the same limit. The N6 Athlone-Oranmore: possibility of head-on collisions, dangerous/impossible to overtake on parts of it (especially because it's so busy), at grade junctions, worse bends/curves than the Athlone Bypass....etc.

Either the N6 Athlone-Galway should have a 80kmh limit and the Athlone Bypass be 100kmh or the Bypass should be 120kmh and the Athlone-Galway stretch remain at 100kmh.

I know that the current N6 will probably have it's speed limit reduced to 80kmh when the M6 opens but we've had the crazy situation I outlined above for many many years on the N6. Makes no sense to me that 2 completely different standards of roads could have the same limit.

PS - Mysterious, I do agree; just because I think it's safe doesn't mean for a fact it is. It's just my opinion, but I would imagine that common driving practice is >100kmh..

Zoney

I've been on the Athlone bypass and it is entirely obvious it should be at 100 km/h - thinking otherwise is just wishful thinking. And for any limit, there *should* be a safe buffer zone above it.

The old N6 should of course be 80 km/h, as with many other not yet upgraded national routes (although the lack of alternatives on these make it a lot less feasible/acceptable to do). There are of course bypassed national route sections that could be 100 km/h, but when you consider at grade junctions, hills, etc. - not just curves, the amount of sections this could apply to is further limited.

Zoney

An unrelated item to my previous post - excavations are being carried out on the verge of the N20 south of Limerick, further south than the N7 works. The small footprint deep excavation at a certain point approaching the Dell junction heading southbound (just before the 3/2/1 signs) would suggest that they are putting in foundations for gantry/cantilever signs. Presumably these will be blue - a start to the M20!

Chris_533976

No concrete news yet of course, but the Ennis bypass is littered with new signage poles. These are clearly designed to support new ADS signage. Also, some single poles have appeared near current speedlimit poles, presumably to take 120kmh. Also, on some off-ramps, two signage poles have appeared halfway up and look the right size to take an end of motorway sign. They have appeared in the characteristically wrong position of halfway up the sliproad, a la the M6 redesignation.

Interestingly however I didnt see any new poles on the Newmarket on Fergus bypass, but its really too early to rumour-mill as to what'll be redesignated. It could be under a seperate contract or just simply not done yet.

Tho it really really does look like the Ennis bypass (at least) will be redesignated.

Edit; And some on the Ennis bypass are in the correct position to be the "Next exit 2km" signs.

BluntGuy

Chris_533976 wrote: »

No concrete news yet of course, but the Ennis bypass is littered with new signage poles. These are clearly designed to support new ADS signage. Also, some single poles have appeared near current speedlimit poles, presumably to take 120kmh. Also, on some off-ramps, two signage poles have appeared halfway up and look the right size to take an end of motorway sign. They have appeared in the characteristically wrong position of halfway up the sliproad, a la the M6 redesignation.

Interestingly however I didnt see any new poles on the Newmarket on Fergus bypass, but its really too early to rumour-mill as to what'll be redesignated. It could be under a seperate contract or just simply not done yet.

Tho it really really does look like the Ennis bypass (at least) will be redesignated.

Edit; And some on the Ennis bypass are in the correct position to be the "Next exit 2km" signs.

Thanks for that Chris.

So, we've had confirmation that *some* kind of work at least is going on - on the N8, N2, N18 and N7/N20. What about the N11 and N6?

Also, is anybody else finding the lack of information from the Department of Transport frustrating, especially when it is becoming increasingly evident that the NRA are pressing ahead with this?

My theory on what's happening is that the NRA originally anticipated the S.I to be published in January/February so that they could begin changeover work in late February. The NRA are clearly sticking to that timeline, despite the fact the S.Is aren't prepared.

Chris_533976

If its any consolation I tried emailing redesignation@transport.ie and it bounced. Doesnt exist anymore.

The only signage work being carried out on the N/M6 at the moment is to do with the new section west of Tuam rd, a concrete base for a gantry has been constructed just before the Tuam rd westbound.

There is no evidence of any resigning work on the bypass itself, I think that they'll wait untill the Ballinasloe road is being "Signed".

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

I was told on the phone today that the engineer making the report to d'minister has been up to his elbows recently with R- and L- road funding paperwork, and that I should call back in "a fortnight" for an update.

It's been a fortnight.

I actually rang the DoT myself today. Spoke to a friendly gentleman and basically asked him all the usual questions most of us seem to have.

First of all without going into the fine details of what was discussed: the DoT have not told the NRA to proceed - it is all still with the engineering team. Second, I was told that even when the minister agrees to the submissions being put together, it will still take two-to-three weeks to prepare the S.I. Third, (and this is pretty obvious), even if the NRA put up blue signage, it has no legal grounding until the S.I is signed.

So what can we take from this? Well, when I was speaking I got the distinct impression that work is progressing at a reasonable pace behind the scenes, but we shouldn't expect anything too soon, certainly not this month. I now also don't know what the NRA is doing, because the DoT doesn't even seem to have indicated that things can proceed.

I will contact the NRA to clarify exactly why they are putting up new poles. I hope this has shed a little light on the situation.

Amtmann

Sounds like the man I've spoken to before. Nice leisurely air about him, and very helpful.

Be sure to let us know what the NRA say, Blunt.

BluntGuy

I will indeed. I have just e-mailed them with a bunch of questions related to the redesignation. I'll give them a call if they don't reply within two weeks.

Also, I am sure it was the same man you spoke to. He seemed to think I was you for a moment - you must have mentioned the Watergrasshill poles to him at some stage!

Anyway, he also said he'd get back to me regarding the issue of replacing signage when old national routes are detrunked. I will let you know what comes of that. And yes, I agree, a very helpful man and quite laid back.

Still doesn't mean I'm satisfied with the lack of updates on their website. No offense to that man, he was very helpful, but I shouldn't have to go to the effort of calling them to obtain that information. They should at least say on their website: "The DoT is putting together submissions for the minister and the engineering team is dealing with the redesignations". At least then we'd know what's going on. Instead, you go to motorway redesignations page and you find it's EXACTLY the same as September.

Tech3

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Interestingly however I didnt see any new poles on the Newmarket on Fergus bypass, but its really too early to rumour-mill as to what'll be redesignated. It could be under a seperate contract or just simply not done yet.

Tho it really really does look like the Ennis bypass (at least) will be redesignated.

Just drove past the Shannon and Newmarket on Fergus bypass yesterday and now they have poles in place around these areas heading north. Looks like its going to be Shannon- Ennis bypass as planned

Didnt see anything happening around the N20 from limerick to partickswell but theres a few cones on the side which might suggest its going ahead there also.

Zoney

tech2 wrote: »

Didnt see anything happening around the N20 from limerick to partickswell but theres a few cones on the side which might suggest its going ahead there also.

They had the hard shoulder blocked off at various points on the N20 at various times during the week as they excavated for foundations of gantry/cantilever signs. There was work right up to the Patrickswell junction on the southbound (didn't notice work on the northbound).

The interesting thing about the N20 would be the N20 spur on the Dell junction (i.e. to the Dell roundabout) which would presumably be under motorway restrictions as part of the M20 despite being WS2 from the roundabout to the split for the trumpet.

mysterious

Zoney wrote: »

They had the hard shoulder blocked off at various points on the N20 at various times during the week as they excavated for foundations of gantry/cantilever signs. There was work right up to the Patrickswell junction on the southbound (didn't notice work on the northbound).

The interesting thing about the N20 would be the N20 spur on the Dell junction (i.e. to the Dell roundabout) which would presumably be under motorway restrictions as part of the M20 despite being WS2 from the roundabout to the split for the trumpet.

If it's classed as motorway it will have to be since, its only used for motorway traffic and this road will end at this point. It would tben too be reclassified.

Tech3

Zoney wrote: »

The interesting thing about the N20 would be the N20 spur on the Dell junction (i.e. to the Dell roundabout) which would presumably be under motorway restrictions as part of the M20 despite being WS2 from the roundabout to the split for the trumpet.

As there was only one way to get from the N20 to N18 that route had to stay N20. When phase 2 of the N7 bypass is completed the N20 spur should be redisnated an R route. The future M20 will end at the M7 free flow junction.

mysterious

tech2 wrote: »

As there was only one way to get from the N20 to N18 that route had to stay N20. When phase 2 of the N7 bypass is completed the N20 spur should be redisnated an R route. The future M20 will end at the M7 free flow junction.

The M7 begins at Rossbrien, N18 and N20 begins at Rossbrien.

That was my understanding am I wrong?

BluntGuy

But all this erection of poles/cantilevers etc. is still meaningless as to knowing what will go ahead and what won't. The DoT haven't given the NRA any sort of go-ahead, so we really don't know.

Tech3

mysterious wrote: »

The M7 begins at Rossbrien, N18 and N20 begins at Rossbrien.

That was my understanding am I wrong?

Currently N7 and N20 start at rossbrien except for
the N18 which starts at the dock road/condell road roundabout

When the Limerick tunnel bypass is complete
The N7 and N18 start at the same section at summerhill where the bypass ties in with the existing N18 dual carriageway.
N20 starts at rossbrien.

What I was saying was that the M20 will start at rossbrien but change the
N20 extended slip/spur to the dell roundabout and redesignate it to a link or regional road to avoid confusion only when the bypass is completed. The N18 will not have to be accessed through the city centre anymore then.

Sorry about going off topic on this.

Zoney

Some photographic evidence of work on the N20:

VMS on northbound carriageway between J3 and J2:


Before J2/the Dell junction (possibly 2km mark?):


Northbound off-slip for J2:


Work at J1 (Dooradoyle). The lorry-mounted stay right sign is on the slip road hard shoulder just at the roundabout - must be putting new signs/foundations in there too.


Another gantry foundation on the N7 southern ring road eastbound just after the N20 junction (probably the 2km mark from the N24/Tipp Rd junction):


Hard to take photos on the return trip due to the sunlight and mobile phone camera - just one came out. New sign foundations at the southbound off-slip/diverge for J2:

BluntGuy

Thanks Zoney.

Hmmmm... certainly seems to be related to the redesignation. I imagine "exit" signs will be put at the gore where the excavations are.

BluntGuy

Some news for you. I can now affirm exactly why the NRA are erecting new signposts and foundations.

As you are probably aware, I rang the DoT and asked them to forward my queries to the NRA. I now have a response. To summarize:

- The NRA iniated a re-signing program in 2006 (to re-sign and upgrade all directional signage on the national road network).

- Various routes were put on hold due to being considered for redesignation.

- All routes considered are now having the appropiate upgrades made, including: installation of post and foundations, cutting back of vegetation and erection of safety barrier where required. However: the actual signpost faces are NOT part of that.

- The colour of signs erected depends (obviously) on whether the redesignation on their particular route is considered. If it is redesignated, blue will be erected, if not, then green.

- The NRA state that they are CLEARLY AWARE they cannot redesignate any stretch without prior ministerial permission.

- They state their reasons for the preparatory works are so that signage can be erected reasonably quickly should redesignation go ahead.


So there you have it, the answers to our speculation on what the NRA is doing have been found (see what a bit of searching around can do!). New signposts and foundations will continue to be erected, but should NOT be taken as any kind of indication as to whether the stretch will be redesignated or not.

I won't be calling or e-mailing them for a while, I feel we've gotten as much information as we're going to get this month.

Chris_533976

Thanks for that and for the effort

I guess it makes sense and proves they arent just a money wasting bunch. Routes need to be resigned, some might be redesignated. Put signpoles up, and then when you know what routes will be motorway, order the appropriate signs.

Common sense from an Irish public body!

Zoney

Makes a change for people not to just sit on their rear ends doing nothing while they wait for other people to do stuff!

Good to see the NRA doing as much as they can even without the final decision on the redesignations.

Still hoping for an M20 - if nothing else, this stretch of road needs the restrictions of motorway even at the current 100 km/h (although certainly from J1 to the N21 start should be 120 km/h).

Tech3

Thanks BluntGuy at least now we know what is actually going on. The long wait for the DoT to confrim the routes of redesignations continues:mad: ................