Motorway redesignation Phase #2 released

Chris_533976

In the Independant and Times tomorrow.

Also on the Transport.ie website.

http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=10193&lang=ENG&loc=2270

Havent dug through it yet, but they say -

N2, N3, N4, N6, N7/N20, N8, N11, N18, N20/N21,

AugustusMaximus

N8: 400m north of the Dunkettle Interchange to the start of the Fermoy bypass at Watergrasshill.

This means that the entire lenght of the N8, barring the bit along the Lower Glanmire Road in Cork city will be motorway.

It starts 400m north of Dunkettle so that learners and other vehicles can access the Dunkettle Interchange via the sliproad up from Glounthaune.

Sadly, nothing on upgrading either the Ballincollig bypass or the N25 east of Cork.

Chris_533976

Yup, makes sense.

So now that I've looked through all this, we have -

M2 Killshane - Ashbourne (incl Ashbourne bypass)
M3 Littlepace - Pace
M4 Kinnegad - McNeads Bridge
M6 Athlone - 'Galway' (includes Athlone bypass and M6 to Galway airport junction. NOT all the way to Galway and NOT the Outer bypass)
M7 Limerick SRR Phase 1 and relevant, inescapable parts of the M7/M20 interchange at Rossbrien. (NOT the Limerick tunnel which will inescapably lead to the below standard N18 DC west of Limerick)
M8 Watergrasshill to Dunkettle - From the junction about 400m north of Dunkettle to the Fermoy bypass.
M11 Arklow - Rathnew, Arklow Bypass, Arklow to Gorey This leaves a gap. No alternate route by the looks of it. Includes Gorey bypass as M.
M18 - Shannon to Athenry From Shannon junction to Rathmorrisey. (I told ye )
M20 - Limerick to Attyflin From M7/M20 interchange to M20/N21 junction (Cork road junction).

This is great, loads new M roads on the way Hopefully there will be very little whinging against these.

Closing date = 14th November for comments etc.

AugustusMaximus

Well, the Galway outer bypass is still in the planning stage so I guess they will get around to that when its being built.

I'm guessing Ballincollig bypass will only be done once the HQDC to Macroom is built. Will be a few years considering everything.


Have to note aswell that the NRA seem to have no trouble with the fact that junction 18 (Glanmire) on the soon to be M8 contains an at-level slip road for M8 north into Glanmire.

Chris_533976 wrote: »

M7 Limerick SRR Phase 1 and relevant, inescapable parts of the M7/M20 interchange at Rossbrien. (NOT the Limerick tunnel which will inescapably lead to the below standard N18 DC west of Limerick)

They'd prob slap an M on that section too but for the fact IIRC that there is no alternative route at the other side. Its a bit twisty too but that is no reason to disallow motorway status.

E92

N2 - 13 km(8 miles) parts of Finglas/Ashbourne bypass

N3 - 2.1 km(1.3 miles) Littlepeace to Loughshalla

N3 - 2.3 km(1.4 miles) Loughshalla to Pace (wherever these places may be)

N4 - 6.8 km(4.2 miles) Kinnegad to McNead's bridge

N6 - 6.8 km(4.2 miles) Athlone bypass

N6 - 20 km(12.5 miles) Athlone - Ballinasloe

N6 - 51 km(32 miles) Galway - Ballinasloe

N7 - 10 km(6 miles) Limerick Southern Ring Road - split into 2 sections - Phase 1 8.5 km(5.3 miles) and N7/N20 Rossbrien Interchange 1.5 km(0.9 miles)

N8 - 7 km(4.3 miles) Watergrasshill to Glanmire

N8 - 6.3 km(4 miles) Glanmire bypass

N11 - 8 km(5 miles) Ashford to Rathnew

N11 - 7 km(4.3 miles) Arklow bypass

N11 - 21 km(13 miles) Arklow to Gorey

N18 - 8.3 km(5.2 miles) Shannon to Ennis

N18 - 12.5 km(8 miles) Ennis bypass

N18 - 22 km(14 miles) Gort - Crusheen

N18 - 28 km(17 miles) Oranmore - Gort

N20 - 5 km(3.1 miles) Limerick - Attiflynn(starts 660 m south of the existing N20/N7 Roundabout)

In total they're hoping to re-classify 236.1 km or around 147 miles of road.

Surprised to see no mention of either the N25(especially the Ballincollig bypass) or the 40 miles(64 km) bit of the N9 that they were unable to re-classify the last time. I believe that the Sligo Inner Relief Road is a Dual Carriageway, surprised to see no mention of that either.

If they all go through this will result in a combined time saving of around 25 minutes(assuming you average the speed limit the whole way, which obviously isn't going to happen for a host of reasons), equivalent to opening a bypass on a major road so that is why we need higher speed limits, especially as no-one ever achieves an average speed of the speed limit, meaning that the time savings will be even better than the 25 minutes outlined above.

Amtmann

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Well, the Galway outer bypass is still in the planning stage so I guess they will get around to that when its being built.

I'm guessing Ballincollig bypass will only be done once the HQDC to Macroom is built. Will be a few years considering everything.


Have to note aswell that the NRA seem to have no trouble with the fact that junction 18 (Glanmire) on the soon to be M8 contains an at-level slip road for M8 north into Glanmire.

Very good point. I wonder what'll happen there...

Any bets on when the Statutory Instrument will be signed? Before January?

marmurr1916

E92 wrote: »

Surprised to see no mention of either the N25(especially the Ballincollig bypass) or the 40 miles(64 km) bit of the N9 that they were unable to re-classify the last time. I believe that the Sligo Inner Relief Road is a Dual Carriageway, surprised to see no mention of that either.

I don't know what the story with the Ballincollig bypass is. Maybe because of the roundabouts along the Cork SRR?

The N9 section will have been covered in the previous round of announcements - it's just that objections have been raised to its redesignation.

The Sligo IRR is never going to be a motorway: it's basically a wide urban road with traffic lights, at-grade junctions, houses facing on to it etc. etc.

This is from one of the pdf files on the transport.ie site: "Objections or representations must be received not later than 4.00pm on Friday 14th November 2008."

Presumably the go-ahead will be given some time in January if there's no objections.

AugustusMaximus

Furet wrote: »

Very good point. I wonder what'll happen there...

I think this is likely to be a mute point on the basis that the Dunkettle to Glanmire section will not have an increase in the speed limit.

I believe the start of the 120kph will be just after this sliproad. That's where the start of construction on the Watergrasshill bypass started anyways.

AugustusMaximus

marmurr1916 wrote: »

I don't know what the story with the Ballincollig bypass is. Maybe because of the roundabouts along the Cork SRR?

The NRA and Government do not want to upgrade sections of DC or even HQDC where there are only short sections of road.

They are planning on HQDC all the way to Macroom as part of the Macroom - Ballyvourney bypass. When this is finally completed I would be sure that this scheme and the Ballincollig bypass would be upgraded.

Amtmann

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

I think this is likely to be a mute point on the basis that the Dunkettle to Glanmire section will not have an increase in the speed limit.

I believe the start of the 120kph will be just after this sliproad. That's where the start of construction on the Watergrasshill bypass started anyways.

Sound reasoning. Do they state explicitly that the section will indeed be subject to a 100 km/h limit? (I haven't had time to read through the documents myself yet)

AugustusMaximus

Furet wrote: »

Sound reasoning. Do they state explicitly that the section will indeed be subject to a 100 km/h limit? (I haven't had time to read through the documents myself yet)

Didn't see anything about speed limits in the document except for saying that 120kph is the standard motorway speed limit.

I normally drive that section at 120kph and would personally find no problem in a 120kph although I doubt it meets general standards for such a limit.

People said the same thing about the Cashel bypass so anything is possible I guess.

mackerski

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

N8: 400m north of the Dunkettle Interchange to the start of the Fermoy bypass at Watergrasshill.

This means that the entire lenght of the N8, barring the bit along the Lower Glanmire Road in Cork city will be motorway.

It starts 400m north of Dunkettle so that learners and other vehicles can access the Dunkettle Interchange via the sliproad up from Glounthaune.

This is a bit anomalous. The slip road you refer to only goes southbound, doesn't it? For the northbound stretch, there's no reason not to start motorway restrictions at the Dunkettle Roundabout. But not to start them there is mad - what's the message? Prohibited traffic is OK to proceed, but will have to U-turn in 400m? Impossible to sign in a useful way. This is going to get silly.

icdg

E92 wrote: »

N3 - 2.1 km(1.3 miles) Littlepeace to Loughshalla

N3 - 2.3 km(1.4 miles) Loughshalla to Pace (wherever these places may be)

Its the Clonee bypass and a very short section of the M3 Clonee-Kells project that was all-purpose.

spacetweek

Been having a good read of all this today. Great news but some of it is very suspect:

The Athlone Bypass? That's waaay below spec.
N3 - they shouldn't faff about here and should be making the whole thing motorway as far as the M50. Close those awful looking yard entrances near the Mulhuddart village turn off.
N11 Rathnew-Wicklow is way below spec - look at this junction.
Proposed road between N11 Arklow Bypass and N11 Rathnew left out.
Limerick South Ring Phase 1 but not Phase 2.
N8 Glanmire before Dunkettle interchange is fixed - weird.
N22 Ballincollig - well I suppose there's nothing to connect to at either end yet. Cork South Ring Interchanges and Macroom extension needed first.

E92 wrote: »

64 km bit of the N9 that they were unable to re-classify the last time.

Weird - I only just noticed this. I had assumed it was a typo. People were probably objecting because the existing road is so, so appalling - and a redesignation would have kept local traffic on it.

E92 wrote: »

I believe that the Sligo Inner Relief Road is a Dual Carriageway, surprised to see no mention of that either.

It's an at-grade dual carriageway. Though there's gonna be a Sligo Western Relief Road which will bypass it. When this is built, you could do West Bypass - Collooney.

BluntGuy

Great news!

And some sections I wasn't really expecting to be considered this time around...

But where the hell is the M25 motorway? And the N9 at Waterford? That's missing too...

BluntGuy

spacetweek wrote: »

Been having a good read of all this today. Great news but some of it is very suspect:

The Athlone Bypass? That's waaay below spec.

It's not too bad. There are some junctions which are... questionable.
But you can't have a gap in a motorway network just because there's a chunk of road which isn't quite up to the usual standards.

The N7 Naas gap is unacceptable enough as well, but the difference is, the Athlone bypass has no direct accesses.

spacetweek wrote: »

N3 - they shouldn't faff about here and should be making the whole thing motorway as far as the M50. Close those awful looking yard entrances near the Mulhuddart village turn off.

I guess it's too much work, but it should be considered.

spacetweek wrote: »

N11 Rathnew-Wicklow is way below spec - look at this junction.

There's a few more questionable junctions, but most of it's fine.

spacetweek wrote: »

Proposed road between N11 Arklow Bypass and N11 Rathnew left out.

They're waiting for construction to begin I guesss...

spacetweek wrote: »

Limerick South Ring Phase 1 but not Phase 2.

I don't get that either.

spacetweek wrote: »

N8 Glanmire before Dunkettle interchange is fixed - weird.

Utter stupidity. WHAT is the point in having a non-motorway dual-carriageway leading directly onto a motorway with no possibility of escape?

I can foresee bad signposting galore...

spacetweek wrote: »

N22 Ballincollig - well I suppose there's nothing to connect to at either end yet. Cork South Ring Interchanges and Macroom extension needed first.

Definately...

murphaph

The Athlone bypass would easily meet Autobahn standards. I don't get the fixation (we have picked up from our cousins over the water) with having such a high spec before considering motorway restrictions to be appropriate.

Many super UK roads are denied motorway status because of silly little things that a german wouldn't bat an eyelid at. It's a POSITIVE step to take. Motorway doesn't automatically mean racetrack, it's just a set of restrictions on certain classes of road user and vehicle. Nothing more. It is positive to prohibit people walking their dog from the likes of the Athlone Bypass.

jd

murphaph wrote: »

Nothing more. It is positive to prohibit people walking their dog from the likes of the Athlone Bypass.

I think the main reason the NRA redeignate as Motorway is to ring fence the road from development (private entrances etc)

murphaph

Agree completely-the NRA is simply protecting its 'property' from moronic local politicians who'd rezone anything put in front of them. The banning of inappropriate classes of traffic is a (welcome) side effect.

jd

jd wrote: »

I think the main reason the NRA redeignate as Motorway is to ring fence the road from development (private entrances etc)

That is SO true.

As it is I was of the understanding that part of the contract for building the Athlone - Ballinasloe section included upgrade(updating) works to be carried out on the bypass, resurfacing, new signage etc

edit: There WILL be issues with agricultural vehicles wanting to cross the shannon!

Aard

Are the junction layouts on www.transport.ie definitive? If so, I can't believe that the M6/M18 interchange will be a roundabout with flyovers. Surely the land is available for a whirlpool, and if not then at least a cloverleaf...

BluntGuy

Well we can't expect every bit of motorway to be 'perfect'...

The Athlone bypass is near enough to 'real' motorway standard. And having two M6s in such close proximity connected by nothing more than local road is a bit ridiculous.

As for the M11, I'm glad of it. At the moment it's a pathetic enough, this'll help shape it for the future.

As far as I'm concerned, our motorway network is about to take another massive leap forward over the coming months with the creation of three 'new' Ms (M2, M18, M20) and major expansion of the others. It can only be a good thing...

I am sure once this is done, the N9, N25, N22 and N7 (phase 2) will get looked at. Remember, the plan is redesignated 800 km of dual-carriageway (high quality or otherwise) to motorway standard. Even if these go through, there's still another 100 - 200 km left. The NRA know what they're doing.

BluntGuy

Aard wrote: »

Are the junction layouts on www.transport.ie definitive? If so, I can't believe that the M6/M18 interchange will be a roundabout with flyovers. Surely the land is available for a whirlpool, and if not then at least a cloverleaf...

The M6/M17/M18 trible-stack roundabout is disaster.

They failed in England and it's going to fail here.

And shoving a service station onto it? I get the logic, (serving three motorways at once), but it's going to cause traffic chaos!

They really should construct a free-flow junction (but that would impede the construction of the damned service station they seem so desperate on gluing onto it).

Stark

BluntGuy wrote: »

But where the hell is the M25 motorway?

No need for redesignation if the road was designated motorway from the word go.

spacetweek wrote:

N3 - they shouldn't faff about here and should be making the whole thing motorway as far as the M50. Close those awful looking yard entrances near the Mulhuddart village turn off.

As far as I know, there's no alternative route for part of it. Damastown road is a private road and gets closed off after hours. Also, are you allowed have bus lane on a motorway?

Amtmann

So, I take it this means the M18 from Limerick to Galway is going ahead asap in its entirity?

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

So, I take it this means the M18 from Limerick to Galway is going ahead asap in its entirity?

Pretty much.

Nice to see other inter-urban routes getting some attention as well. If only there was a pratical way to link the M18 to the M20 through the M7 without any gap in M.

Also, you are allowed to have a bus lane on a motorway (the M11(A406) in England has a bus lane on it.)

marmurr1916

And the M4 on the way to Heathrow.

Sponge Bob

The M17 is not on the list as well as the N6 Galway Outer Bypass .

The Athlone bypass east of the Roscommon Road is far too dodgy for motorway. 3 exits on top of another in short order ,maybe add a third lane between the Ballymahon and Blyry exits to separate local traffic like they sort of did west of the Ballymahon exit ?

There is a wicked corner east of the bridge although a decent camber could fix that to make it 120kph . Asit is today it if lethal as a 120kph proposition.

It could also be a 100kph motorway for that 1.5mile stretch could it not

BluntGuy

Somebody on SABRE asked if they could see what the network will look like if all these go through.

Well, here's a quickly drawn map illustrating the changes if all the inter-urbans are completed, all other schemes planned are completed and the motorway redesignations go through...

Correct me if I've anything wrong...

marmurr1916

BluntGuy wrote: »

Somebody on SABRE asked if they could see what the network will look like if all these go through.

Well, here's a quickly drawn map illustrating the changes if all the inter-urbans are completed, all other schemes planned are completed and the motorway redesignations go through...

Correct me if I've anything wrong...

Cool!

You'll probably be able to add an extension to the M4 as far as Longford eventually.

Sponge Bob

Well in theory New Ross and Enniscorthy will be bypassed but I would not hold my breath. The M17 is not on the designation list possibly because it is an M17 not N17 .

N4 Longford Mullingar may also be built as DC ,all by 2015 . I am frankly sceptical that any of them will be built before 2015 at present.

Dempsey made the following announcement in January

http://www.nra.ie/News/PressReleases/htmltext,11671,en.html

Eight projects are moving forward into the Compulsory Purchase Order stage in 2008 and the projects are
(N4) Carrick-on-Shannon to Dromod;
(N11) Enniscorthy Bypass;
(N15) Ballybofey / Stranolar Bypass;
(N22) Tralee Bypass;
(N22) Ballyvourney to Macroom;
(N25) Carrigtwohill to Midleton;
(N56) Mountcharles to Inver and
(N85) Ballyconnell Inner Relief Road.

Mind you most of those were announced as going to cpo in 2007 as well. How did the 2008 candidates do , was there any money in Wexford ??

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055041950

N4: Carrick-on-Shannon bypass 6km S2+1
N5: Longford bypass 2.6km S2
N7: Newlands Cross grade separation
N11: Enniscorthy bypass 20km DC
N15: Ballybofey/Stranorlar bypass 16km DC
N17: Galway-Tuam 22km DC
N22: Tralee Bypass 11km S2
N22: Ballyvourney-Macroom 42km S2
N25 New Ross Bypass 16km DC
N25 Carrigtwohill-Midleton 4.5km DC
N26 Ballina/Bohola Phase 2, 18km S2
N56 4.9km S2, N87 1.2km S2

SeanW

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Cool!

You'll probably be able to add an extension to the M4 as far as Longford eventually.

I wouldn't bank on it - believe me I'd love to have even a Grade Separated Dual Carriageway out here, but at the public consulutation day in Longford recently, I found out they're thinking of doing it as a cheap crappy 2+2 "Type 2 Dual Carriageway." Apparently it's all down to existing and projected traffic volumes.

Now, I'd be happy with even a medium quality type 1 Dual, but with the collapsing public finances and a planned "bloodbath" budget coming up, I extremely pleasantly surprised if the scheme isn't cancelled and approved for some kind of decent DC.

Ah well, we can live in hope.

As for the extra 6-odd km of Motorway Kinnegad-Downs, ok it will be nice to have another short stretch to do 120km/h but other than I don't really see the point.

JayeL

I'm a little peeved at the plan for the N2.

I'm all for making it a motorway, but why only from the Cherryhound exit? Once you allow non-motorway traffic off at Coldwinters and on at the Dublin Airport Logistics Park (sounds romantic, doesn't it?), surely the only six-lane stretch on the N2 should be motorway?

If it isn't, then we'll have a strange situation where the limit on the widest part of the road will be 100kmh and once the road narrows after Cherryhound, it goes up to 120.

L1011

E92 wrote: »

Surprised to see no mention of either the N25(especially the Ballincollig bypass) or the 40 miles(64 km) bit of the N9 that they were unable to re-classify the last time. I believe that the Sligo Inner Relief Road is a Dual Carriageway, surprised to see no mention of that either.

The SIRR has about 6 at grade, signal controlled junctions. Theres about 15km of motorway grade road south of it, though.

Steviemak

BluntGuy wrote: »

Somebody on SABRE asked if they could see what the network will look like if all these go through.

Well, here's a quickly drawn map illustrating the changes if all the inter-urbans are completed, all other schemes planned are completed and the motorway redesignations go through...

Correct me if I've anything wrong...

When you look at that map it clearly illustrates the lack of investment to the North and West. If only the Northwest motorway could get off the ground to serve Donegal and Derry. To be most effective (population and area served) it should travel the M3 route and serve Cavan, spur to Sligo, Fermanagh, Donegal and on to Derry. Can't see it happening though.

Alun

BluntGuy wrote: »

Somebody on SABRE asked if they could see what the network will look like if all these go through.

Well, here's a quickly drawn map illustrating the changes if all the inter-urbans are completed, all other schemes planned are completed and the motorway redesignations go through...

Correct me if I've anything wrong...

Maybe it's just the scale of the map, but there's a section of N11 still between Bray and Rathnew (or is it earlier, I'm a bit hazy as to where the M designation will start now exactly?) that isn't immediately obvious from the map. At least the section around Bray / Kilmacanogue doesn't stand a bat in hell's chance of becoming Motorway in the foreseeable future, I reckon.

loyatemu

Alun wrote: »

Maybe it's just the scale of the map, but there's a section of N11 still between Bray and Rathnew (or is it earlier, I'm a bit hazy as to where the M designation will start now exactly?) that isn't immediately obvious from the map. At least the section around Bray / Kilmacanogue doesn't stand a bat in hell's chance of becoming Motorway in the foreseeable future, I reckon.

no - the section between the Bray bypass and Kilpedder is a mess of local accesses and duplicate junctions. It also has no alternative route.

The Newtown bypass and northern section of Ashford\Rathnew are easily Mway standard, but again no easy alternative route, so the M11 will only start at the Cullenmore junction and then continue to south of Gorey (assuming they build the missing section).

Good news IMO - the Arklow bypass in particular was originally built as a motorway but local political meddling led to it being opened as dual-carriageway. It is well capable of a 120km/h limit.

jd

loyatemu wrote: »

Good news IMO - the Arklow bypass in particular was originally built as a motorway but local political meddling led to it being opened as dual-carriageway. It is well capable of a 120km/h limit.

I presume there will be objections from local cycling clubs. They seem to use it for their Sunday cycles! :eek:

D'Peoples Voice

BluntGuy wrote: »

Somebody on SABRE asked if they could see what the network will look like if all these go through.

Well, here's a quickly drawn map illustrating the changes if all the inter-urbans are completed, all other schemes planned are completed and the motorway redesignations go through...

Correct me if I've anything wrong...

FFS, there'll be riots on the streets of Knock if this map is made public,
people in the underpopulated west of land will feel that the Northwest has seriously been deprived of proper infrastructure!!!
we'll have to commit to building the N5 longford & ballaghaderreen bypasses to pacify them!

Zoney

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

FFS, there'll be riots on the streets of Knock if this map is made public,
people in the underpopulated west of land will feel that the Northwest has seriously been deprived of proper infrastructure!!!
we'll have to commit to building the N5 longford & ballaghaderreen bypasses to pacify them!

I believe a lot of the primary routes in the "gap" are now earmarked for dual carriageway rather than 2+1. Although said dual carriageway will be mostly at-grade, with no hard shoulder and a wire median barrier (hence the NRA calling it "2+2"). Pretty decent for the low traffic on those roads - and indeed not over the top either, as it is necessary to have safe and fast access to even the lower populated parts of the country.

On the 2+2 they should probably go for concrete barrier though - as the wire fence has high maintance costs (or more likely, it can even be *useless* for safety when it isn't maintained, e.g. re-tension/fix hours after a crash, check daily for damaged sections). Also at-grade junctions will be tricky - really some over/underbridges needed to avoid having junctions at all for minor roads, and then use roundabouts for the major ones (e.g. secondary or important R roads only).

spacetweek

Been thinking about the N3 redesignation as far as Clonee turnoff. I think on mature reflection this is probably better. It means that we could dedicate the rest of the road as far as the M50 to bus, etc. We should do an N4/N7 job on it and widen this Clonee-M50 part to 6 lanes with proper bus lanes (not the current crap) and cycle/walking paths. Stop getting buses to drop people off at the door to Blanch Centre, taking hours to get there, and use the N3 as the primary route. With the bus stops here on widened offramps, it would only be 200m to the entrance. Build a pedestrian bridge to allow access to the bus stop on the other side of the N3.

Furet wrote: »

So, I take it this means the M18 from Limerick to Galway is going ahead asap in its entirity?

Had always assumed that, but we'll have to see what Coweye comes up with in his budget, which is gonna be a tough one. To be honest, I'd always thought the Atlantic corridor would be finished after 2015, but it's a certainty now. I'm more worried about them slowing down the public transport bits , though.

BluntGuy wrote: »

Well, here's a quickly drawn map illustrating the changes if all the inter-urbans are completed, all other schemes planned are completed and the motorway redesignations go through...

Correct me if I've anything wrong...

Nice map, but you included a lot of non-motorway low standard bits, like N18 at Limerick, N11 south of Bray, etc.

Steviemak wrote: »

When you look at that map it clearly illustrates the lack of investment to the North and West. If only the Northwest motorway could get off the ground to serve Donegal and Derry.

I know! The lack of motorway north of the midlands jumps right off the screen.

Agreed with the N3 routing, but they've already decided to use the N2. And NI has messed it up by planning their section as dual, not motorway.

L1011

Its being planned to their concept of HQDC which is close enough to some of the bits of the N11 we're intending to make motorway, though. The UKs idea of 'motorway' is obsessive when its applied properly (and can be horrific when not - single carriageway roads that are 'motorways' exist).

Poster King

Aard wrote: »

Are the junction layouts on www.transport.ie definitive? If so, I can't believe that the M6/M18 interchange will be a roundabout with flyovers. Surely the land is available for a whirlpool, and if not then at least a cloverleaf...

I've read and heard a lot about this infamous M6/M18/M17 junction, but have not yet seen any plans/image of it. Can someone point me in the right direction please.
While I'm at it, can I express my incredulity at the planned route which goes no where near Galway City, what is the rationale for this?

spacetweek

Poster King wrote: »

I've read and heard a lot about this infamous M6/M18/M17 junction, but have not yet seen any plans/image of it. Can someone point me in the right direction please.
While I'm at it, can I express my incredulity at the planned route which goes no where near Galway City, what is the rationale for this?

Sh1te junction planned for here - can be seen in this map, click on the leftmost (southernmost) image.

As for the M18-M17 route not taking in Galway, they must have been aiming for a straight run north-south and traffic is supposed to use the M6 to complete the journey. That said, they could at least have deviated slightly to the west to take in Claregalway.

BluntGuy

spacetweek wrote: »

Sh1te junction planned for here - can be seen in this map, click on the leftmost (southernmost) image.

As for the M18-M17 route not taking in Galway, they must have been aiming for a straight run north-south and traffic is supposed to use the M6 to complete the journey. That said, they could at least have deviated slightly to the west to take in Claregalway.

Utter crappiness...

If the N7/N20 (or M7/M20 as the case may soon be), junction can get a free-flow (or partial free-flow now that I think about it), then this should as well, considering there is much more space available.

D.L.R.

Steviemak wrote: »

When you look at that map it clearly illustrates the lack of investment to the North and West. If only the Northwest motorway could get off the ground to serve Donegal and Derry. To be most effective (population and area served) it should travel the M3 route and serve Cavan, spur to Sligo, Fermanagh, Donegal and on to Derry. Can't see it happening though.

Agree on the need for a NW motorway, but disagree on your route choice. For me, the most effective route is:

(M1 Dublin-Dundalk)-N53-Castleblayney-N2-Monaghan-border-(A5)

OR

(M1/A1 Dublin-Newry)-A28 via Armagh-(A5)

both much shorter than an M3 extension, and serving much larger population corridors.

Zoney

BluntGuy wrote: »

Utter crappiness...

If the N7/N20 (or M7/M20 as the case may soon be), junction can get a free-flow (or partial free-flow now that I think about it), then this should as well, considering there is much more space available.

The N7/N20 junction is only going to be freeflow by virtue of omitting city-bound traffic flows. All the traffic from Cork, Kerry, West Limerick will no longer be able to access the city via Childers Road (such as that is) and will have to use the ring road and then paltry junctions at the N69 Dock Road and N24 Tipp Road. These two junctions are already traffic jams at peak times - the former is currently a roundabout connecting to a R link road to Raheen - this will form one half of the dumbell junction for the ring road (guesses as to how magnificently that will work?). The N24 is a diamond junction that was plagued by unsafe right turn movements, and now has traffic calming strewn along the bridge (to little effect) and traffic lights to stop traffic backing up onto the ring road (instead having it back up on the main Tipperary road).

Steviemak

DLR I agree to some extent.

However, the only Dublin orientated population centre on that route not served by my proposal is Monaghan. Alot of Omagh Armagh traffic heads to Belfast. It can be argued that Monaghan is 30mins from the M1 on a high standard single carriage way.

My route although longer will serve - Cavan, Virginia, Sligo, (Enniskillen),Ballyshannon, Donegal Town, Stranolar, Letterkenny and Derry. It removes the onus on NI to build the majority of the road which is the reason there is no motorway today. I believe if the route to Derry Letterkenny was all in the Republic it would currently be under construction.

My route will never happen but it would save us building two roads in the future.

BluntGuy

Zoney wrote: »

The N7/N20 junction is only going to be freeflow by virtue of omitting city-bound traffic flows. All the traffic from Cork, Kerry, West Limerick will no longer be able to access the city via Childers Road (such as that is) and will have to use the ring road and then paltry junctions at the N69 Dock Road and N24 Tipp Road. These two junctions are already traffic jams at peak times - the former is currently a roundabout connecting to a R link road to Raheen - this will form one half of the dumbell junction for the ring road (guesses as to how magnificently that will work?). The N24 is a diamond junction that was plagued by unsafe right turn movements, and now has traffic calming strewn along the bridge (to little effect) and traffic lights to stop traffic backing up onto the ring road (instead having it back up on the main Tipperary road).

Yes...

But as we all know, terrible junction designs and locations are facets of PPP schemes. The only reason for them, as far as I can see, is to make the old road as inaccessible as possible so as to annoy people into using the toll road. Devious... :mad:

D.L.R.

Steviemak wrote: »

DLR I agree to some extent.

However, the only Dublin orientated population centre on that route not served by my proposal is Monaghan. Alot of Omagh Armagh traffic heads to Belfast. It can be argued that Monaghan is 30mins from the M1 on a high standard single carriage way.

My route although longer will serve - Cavan, Virginia, Sligo, (Enniskillen),Ballyshannon, Donegal Town, Stranolar, Letterkenny and Derry. It removes the onus on NI to build the majority of the road which is the reason there is no motorway today. I believe if the route to Derry Letterkenny was all in the Republic it would currently be under construction.

My route will never happen but it would save us building two roads in the future.

Its too extravagent IMO. The only part of the NW which could argue the case for full motorway to Dublin is Derry. The rest is small potatoes. Your idea is very indirect regards Derry, just to connect a few small towns of 5,000 population and Enniskillen (15,000).

Therefore the best route is the most direct one, whether its built mainly in NI or the Rep. The M1 as far as Dundalk or Newry is generally headed toward Derry anyway so another large road is wasteful. Sligo will eventually have a dualled N4 all the way to Dublin. Cavan and Enniskillen are just too isolated. Omagh and Armagh on the other hand are large towns right on the Dublin-Derry axis.

Chris_533976

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The M17 is not on the list as well as the N6 Galway Outer Bypass .

M17 doesnt need to be redesignated as a Motorway Order was published for it and it will be built as motorway from day 1 (whenever/if ever that is). It wont be built as HQDC so wont need to be reclassified.

I guess the Galway Outer Bypass will be reclassified if built, but I'd say as little attention to that as possible until its being built is the best. Lets not give the people/departments objecting to it another reason to keep complaining. I reckon thats what the NRA will do too.