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Motorway redesignation Phase #2 released
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cherrypicker555 wrote: »Heres the M8, its below UK motorway safety standards. The M8 goes partly from cork to Dublin, you compare it to an A road through the Scottish highlands.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3216/2689300469_7b9d8d57ef.jpg
An A road which consists of the signposted route from the first to the second capitals of the UK.cherrypicker555 wrote: »Most UK motorways are "older" obviously they are updated , they certainly do have VMS, you cant have driven them.
http://www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge/334.aspx
"Electronic information signs are now a familiar sight across England's motorway and trunk road network.
These signs provide advance warning to drivers of emergencies, incidents and road management. They are aimed at improving safety and minimising the impact of congestion.
We use the term Variable Message Signs (VMS) to describe these signs.
This section of our Knowledge Centre explains how these signs work and contains more detail on their uses.
The main purpose of VMS on the Agency’s network is to communicate information and advice to drivers"
They still have them on about the same proportion of routes that we have, all the blurb in the world won't change that.cherrypicker555 wrote: ».....The UK also has red and amber and blue.
Red is entirely superflous - seeing as its used in the UK only its differentiation between each side of the road is un-needed; amber IS orange/yellow as we have here and we use green for where they use blue - as well as other places they neglect to use green at all.cherrypicker555 wrote: »........Now I know you have never driven on the uk motorway network.
No, now I know you haven't. The UK motorway network may have far more fully lit routes but they are lit with aging and often failed low quality lights. On a recent night journey I did in the UK on average one in four of the lights were working. This includes junctions.
Here rather than pointlessly lighting rural stretches of motorway we light the junctions and, generally, the lights work.cherrypicker555 wrote: »As for service stations not being a safety issue...
1 in 5 fatal motorway accidents are caused by tirerdness.
http://www.articlesbase.com/personal-injury-articles/tiredness-causes-15-of-all-road-accidents-465213.html
Nothing prevents people leaving the motorway network to use service stations.cherrypicker555 wrote: »heres the UKs oldest motorway, the M1, note the barriers each side, lighting behind barriers, rumble strip on hard shoulder, chevrons to keep cars from driving to close.
http://citytransport.info/PhotoCD/0692_26a.jpg
Now compare to the new M8 above.
Hence why UK motorways are safer, even with a larger traffic volume.
The M1 isn't the oldest motorway in the UK for starters. Secondly, its traffic volume - both actual and capacity - is many times higher than the M8. It NEEDS additional safety featuers. However, of those you list:
*Where lighting exists on the network here is it is behind barriers, useless point
*Side barriers are used when required here, I would agree with full barriers however.
*Chevrons are used when required here - the M50 DPT has them. Our other roads are not at the required level of usage AND speed to need them.cherrypicker555 wrote: »..............comedy gold.
Entirely true. Its just that there are plenty of people who love to denegrate their own country here who refuse to believe that we can actually do something right.
Our motorways are inherently going to be lower capacity than the UK ones. We build multiple routes rather than trunking on to single ones where possible (the UK would not have an M9 and an M11; and the M8 would branch of the M7 far further down for instance). We are a SIGNIFICANTLY smaller country. Less traffic means you don't need as complex safety features - but it also means we can consistantly apply and maintain the ones we have.
Anyway, cherrypicker appears to be, erm, cherry picking the UK motorways he's using as examples. Lower capacity sections of the UK m-way network are unlit with no side barriers, no colour coded catseyes, no VMS, no services, etc etc etc. So he compares roads of a standard we will never, ever need rather than ones the same as we do...
- M45 in the UK.
I've driven thousands of miles on the UK motorway network, you appear to get your information off the Highways Agency.0 -
An A road which consists of the signposted route from the first to the second capitals of the UK.
They still have them on about the same proportion of routes that we have, all the blurb in the world won't change that.
Red is entirely superflous - seeing as its used in the UK only its differentiation between each side of the road is un-needed; amber IS orange/yellow as we have here and we use green for where they use blue - as well as other places they neglect to use green at all.
No, now I know you haven't. The UK motorway network may have far more fully lit routes but they are lit with aging and often failed low quality lights. On a recent night journey I did in the UK on average one in four of the lights were working. This includes junctions.
Here rather than pointlessly lighting rural stretches of motorway we light the junctions and, generally, the lights work.
Nothing prevents people leaving the motorway network to use service stations.
The M1 isn't the oldest motorway in the UK for starters. Secondly, its traffic volume - both actual and capacity - is many times higher than the M8. It NEEDS additional safety featuers. However, of those you list:
*Where lighting exists on the network here is it is behind barriers, useless point
*Side barriers are used when required here, I would agree with full barriers however.
*Chevrons are used when required here - the M50 DPT has them. Our other roads are not at the required level of usage AND speed to need them.
Entirely true. Its just that there are plenty of people who love to denegrate their own country here who refuse to believe that we can actually do something right.
Our motorways are inherently going to be lower capacity than the UK ones. We build multiple routes rather than trunking on to single ones where possible (the UK would not have an M9 and an M11; and the M8 would branch of the M7 far further down for instance). We are a SIGNIFICANTLY smaller country. Less traffic means you don't need as complex safety features - but it also means we can consistantly apply and maintain the ones we have.
Anyway, cherrypicker appears to be, erm, cherry picking the UK motorways he's using as examples. Lower capacity sections of the UK m-way network are unlit with no side barriers, no colour coded catseyes, no VMS, no services, etc etc etc. So he compares roads of a standard we will never, ever need rather than ones the same as we do... - M45 in the UK.
I've driven thousands of miles on the UK motorway network, you appear to get your information off the Highways Agency.
OK if you want too be pedantic the M1 was opened in 59 a few months after the M6.
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They still have them on about the same proportion of routes that we have, all the blurb in the world won't change that.
......there are thousands of electronic info boards on A roads and M ways in the UK, certainly many more then found in the republic.
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Red is entirely superflous - seeing as its used in the UK only its differentiation between each side of the road is un-needed;
.......It is very useful for showing the outside of the carriageway in poor visiblity, such as fog...hardly superflous.
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uk motorways are lit with failing lights.
......Motorway maintance, such as changing lights is ongoing, you obviously have an agenda.
All motorways have colour coded cat eyes and central barriers.
The m45, why use an old picture ?
Heres it today.
http://www.rural-roads.co.uk/m45/m45_1_1.shtml
http://www.rural-roads.co.uk/m45/m45_1.shtml
But even if you study your pic of the M45 before its upgrade, its still in terms of road markings and barriers safer then many of the reps new motorways.0 -
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This is great but does anyone know the implementation date?LOL I suppose!
Well, I'm just off the phone with the Dept. of Transport. We should have a signing within the next three or four weeks at the latest. The N9 bit that was refused in tranche 1 is to be included in the statutory instrument for tranche 2. Oh, and there appears to be enough money for blue signs.
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marmurr1916 wrote: »Let's make a more realistic comparison between Ireland and Scotland which has a population of ca. 800,000 more people than Ireland (5.2 million vs 4.4 million).
Here's a picture of the M90 in Scotland: D2M, hard-shoulder ends in 1 mile, wire barrier.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Gzh8FcNHKjA/SCyvaTtpkII/AAAAAAAACww/901y2ginaMI/P1010613.JPG
Quite frankly, there's little difference between the standard of most motorways in Scotland and Ireland.
The exceptions are the M8 through Glasgow which is a multi-lane urban motorway and the M74/A74 (M) south towards Greater Manchester, the West Midlands and London which is D3M.
Also, dual-carriageways in Scotland (and other parts of the UK) are often like this:
http://image20.webshots.com/20/4/57/90/334945790sPHMNe_fs.jpg
or this:
http://www.drivingmarket.co.uk/Driving%20Tips/Road.gif
Note the lack of hard shoulders, the lay-bys, bus-stops and the lane allowing for right-hand turns, and all at a speed-limit of 70mph!
Almost all non-urban dual-carriageways in Ireland have hard-shoulders and right-turns/crossing of the dual-carriageway are much rarer than in the UK.
Even so, with the exception of the N2 from Finglas/M50 to Ashbourne and the N1 from the northern end of the M1 to the border (both of which are HQDC), all Irish dual-carriageways have a lower speed-limit of 100 km/h (62.4mph).
UK dual carriageways have a top speed limit of 70, usually 60, in urban areas like in your pic usually 40mph.
dont know why you think the road in your link has a 70mph limit
Obviously dual carriageways in urban areas have bus stops, no hard shoulder etc.
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Quite frankly, there's little difference between the standard of most motorways in Scotland and Ireland.
...apart from less wire barriers, better lighting, service stations, wider lanes, bigger signage,rumble strips, etc, etc, etc.0 -
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cherrypicker555 wrote: »UK dual carriageways have a top speed limit of 70, usually 60, in urban areas like in your pic usually 40mph.
dont know why you think the road in your link has a 70mph limit
Obviously dual carriageways in urban areas have bus stops, no hard shoulder etc.
QUOTE :
Quite frankly, there's little difference between the standard of most motorways in Scotland and Ireland.
...apart from less wire barriers, better lighting, service stations, wider lanes, bigger signage,rumble strips, etc, etc, etc.
It is true that British roads (but not roads in Northern Ireland) are safer that Irish Roads. But do you have any evidence that British motorways are safer than Irish motorways?
And Irish road standards are higher than UK ones in some key areas - especially hard shoulders. There are very few single carriageway, or non-motorway dual carriageway roads in the UK with hard shoulders, and they are even compromising motorway safety by allowing driving in the shoulder of certain motorways at peak times.
And only major motorways in urban areas are lit - no better than Ireland. see here:
http://www.cbrd.co.uk/reference/network/img/lighting.gif
And they're even turning some of those lights off on cost grounds.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/4338967/Motorway-lights-to-be-switched-off-at-night-despite-safety-warnings.html
And British rural dual carriageways with private entrances, roundabouts, and no hard shoulders have a standard 70 mph limit - the same as a motorway.
And wire barriers are only on a minority of the Irish motorway network - the new roads use concrete step barriers, safer than the british steel barriers.
Wider lanes are not safer than the (slightly) narrower ones we have here - they give a false sense of security on the road and encourage higher speeds. And we also do have rumble strips to warn you if you lose concentration and start drifting into the next lane. Have you ever driven on motorways in Ireland?
I'll give you the lack of service stations, but at the moment every major road has service stations facing onto it on the single carriageway sections, and service stations are in the process of being put onto our existing network.0 -
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