Waterford University discussion

SeanieW1977

vriesmays wrote: »

A university won't reduce Waterford's unemployment.

Yes it will.

It will attract employment and investment as it will make the city a university city.

There are hundreds of examples all over the globe.

Harry Palmr

That's literally the stupidest thing this person has said.

Jobs follow money.

smellyoldboot

vriesmays wrote: »

A university won't reduce Waterford's unemployment.

It literally will. Think about it for a millisecond. For all the businesses that won't locate here because of difficulty in sourcing experienced professionals (sounds bs to me but it's an excuse used). Think of a factory, for every 5-10 qualified engineers/scientists/accountants they have there are prob 10 times as many (relatively well paid) floor monkey positions created. The relatively small amount of jobs that would require university education would create thousands more downstream.

Harry Palmr

It's not even that - university would simply need more of everything from the get-go. Staff at all levels, capital spend items from new buildings to new whiteboards. Most of that spend would be local/regional.

JimWinters

azimuth17 wrote: »

Council input has no effect.

Then why are KK CoCo commissioning a report on up to two new campuses for Kilkenny? What is Waterford Council’s position on the TU? All TDs bar Matt Shanahan have been MIA on the whole thing

You’re right about the HEA, Dept of Education line on Waterford but I wonder has any official reason been given on why Carlow are leading the process. The FOI in the News & Star suggested Tom Boland’s company was contracted through ITC (though they don’t appear to have had any input into his appointment).

SeanieW1977

vriesmays wrote: »

A university won't reduce Waterford's unemployment.

Is this you John Cummins ? Or is it David Cullinane?!

azimuth17

JimWinters wrote: »

Then why are KK CoCo commissioning a report on up to two new campuses for Kilkenny? What is Waterford Council’s position on the TU? All TDs bar Matt Shanahan have been MIA on the whole thing

You’re right about the HEA, Dept of Education line on Waterford but I wonder has any official reason been given on why Carlow are leading the process. The FOI in the News & Star suggested Tom Boland’s company was contracted through ITC (though they don’t appear to have had any input into his appointment).

Carlow are leading the process because WIT let them do so . Wrongly in my view. Boland was contracted by Carlow because they were advised I believe by the Dept to do so. WIT has been made toxic to them in past decade by allegations of irregularities, all shown to be baseless, made by some staff members in WIT to suit their own agenda, which conveniently suited Dept and HEA. They are like silent mice now. David Cullinane's carry on at a PAC I recall with Prof Willie Donnelly, certainly did not help. He is in Sinn Fein's corner and not Waterfords (on most issues).

Kilkenny, like many councils, commission reports into what they might like to have, third level, better shopping, white water rafting etc. What I mean is that I believe Waterford council input is unlikely to make Dept. or HEA change their views at this stage although they should be making noise on the subject. The politics of the "Kilkenny and Wexford must get something" are well entrenched at this stage and were initiated by Ms Hogan and Howlin in 2011. Getting a report done by Tom Boland's consultancy is merely a way of given retrospective cover to any recommendation pre merger made by him or any decision made Dept or HEA post merger. John Cummins and Mary Butler and Mr O'Cathasaigh will be flogging the departmental and HEA line on the merger even if Waterford is to be eviscerated. What do you think?

Wanderer78

smellyoldboot wrote:

It literally will. Think about it for a millisecond. For all the businesses that won't locate here because of difficulty in sourcing experienced professionals (sounds bs to me but it's an excuse used). Think of a factory, for every 5-10 qualified engineers/scientists/accountants they have there are prob 10 times as many (relatively well paid) floor monkey positions created. The relatively small amount of jobs that would require university education would create thousands more downstream.

'Floor monkeys', that's nice! Believe it or not, many general ops would have high level academic and trade qualifications, most multinationals would have continual educational programs linked with local educational and training facilities, uptake tends to be very good. so I think it's rather ignorant to label them as such, even if they don't partake, without the general ops, fcuk all happens

Wanderer78

smellyoldboot wrote: »

lol. I knew you would be on with your pseudo-commie "I'm not a socialist" bs. Having worked in such positions in the past I can verify most of these roles are created in such a way that a reasonably intelligent monkey could perform them. If that offends you in some way then: <SNIP>

nice, and mature! it must be tough being surrounded by 'monkeys'!

smellyoldboot

Wanderer78 wrote: »

nice, and mature! it must be tough being surrounded by 'monkeys'!

Unfortunately we all are in fairness. Most humans are of pretty limited potential. Not their fault but not much can be done about it other than simplify tasks as much as possible. See warning labels on EVERYTHING as further proof: " Don't put this pointy thing up your nose" etc.

BBM77

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Unfortunately we all are in fairness. Most humans are of pretty limited potential. Not their fault but not much can be done about it other than simplify tasks as much as possible. See warning labels on EVERYTHING as further proof: " Don't put this pointy thing up your nose" etc.

There is little difference between most humans. Potential is only a get out. It is more down to their outlook, upbringing and frankly luck.

SeanieW1977

i dont agree with this either too. A lot of people that go to college arent bright either! Just have good memories and passed the biggest memory test in the land (the leaving cert!)

College / third level should be a place that allows people to progress into a niche area.

Every bit of data in the world shows that in 4-5 years time it will be very difficult to get any kind of job without a third level qualification in some shape or form.

calling people floor monkeys is totally out of order.

The take up rate of third level is in Waterford is one of lowest in the country, another huge reason why companies do not wish to locate here, percevied as a poorly educated population.

A huge barrier for entry to say a university is the distance to travel and cost associated with same for Waterfordians.

azimuth17

SeanieW1977 wrote: »

calling people floor monkeys is totally out of order.

The take up rate of third level is in Waterford is one of lowest in the country, another huge reason why companies do not wish to locate here, percevied as a poorly educated population.

A huge barrier for entry to say a university is the distance to travel and cost associated with same for Waterfordians.

Not sure this is true, but university participation as distinct from IoT participation is low across all counties in south east.Have you a link to support the comment?

SeanieW1977

i do.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp10esil/p10esil/le/

do further search for the rest on the CSO site.

38.1% waterford - Lowest in munster, Lowest of any county that has a city, Lowest of any county that has a University

Also Waterford is below the average of ceasing education in the state per 2016 CSO - 19.7 vs state average of 19.9

Galway City - 22
Cork City 20.3
Dublin City 20.6

Lowest of any county that has a city, Lowest of any county that has a University

That enough or ?

azimuth17

While i research that I would just like you to understand that it is information I am after, not trying to put down the substance of the matter you post. It is too serious at this stage for that.

Statements like "The take up rate of third level is in Waterford is one of lowest in the country, another huge reason why companies do not wish to locate here, percevied (sic) as a poorly educated population." are counter productive IMHO and may not be accurate allowing for the politics of the situation.

I note from the CSO that the number of people with PhDs in Waterford is 14th in national terms, but below all the usual suspects of Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway and above our adjacent counties of Wexford and Kilkenny etc. But we need to beat the top of the table rather than the laggards.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp10esil/p10esil/tl/

SeanieW1977

azimuth17 wrote: »

While i research that I would just like you to understand that it is information I am after, not trying to put down the substance of the matter you post. It is too serious at this stage for that.

Statements like "The take up rate of third level is in Waterford is one of lowest in the country, another huge reason why companies do not wish to locate here, percevied (sic) as a poorly educated population." are counter productive IMHO and may not be accurate allowing for the politics of the situation.

I note from the CSO that the number of people with PhDs in Waterford is 14th in national terms, but below all the usual suspects of Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway and above our adjacent counties of Wexford and Kilkenny etc. But we need to beat the top of the table rather than the laggards.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp10esil/p10esil/tl/

And it all boils down to jobs & where businesses chose to locate. Availability of skilled work force, spending power potentially in cases of consumer products etc

imacman

I had a quick look at the recently released Higher Education Research & Development Survey (HERD) for 2018 . It clearly visible how well WIT is doing in the research sphere but the graph below just shows how big a difference there there is between Waterford and Carlow when it comes to research spend. This relates to the spend the college has on research with the funding coming from external partners like EI or EU research funding programmes .
The 2018 figure WIT 21.2 million ITcarlow 2.6 million


WIT is the top preforming IT by a long way , Carlow just off the bottom with IADS only below them ( and art and design colleges are not hot beds of research ).Yet again research is an area that Carlow portray themselves as near equilvent to WIT but when you look into it the reality of the figures its a very different story.

azimuth17

imacman wrote: »

I had a quick look at the recently released Higher Education Research & Development Survey (HERD) for 2018 . It clearly visible how well WIT is doing in the research sphere but the graph below just shows how big a difference there there is between Waterford and Carlow when it comes to research spend.

WIT is the top preforming IT by a long way , Carlow just off the bottom with IADS only below them ( and art and design colleges are not hot beds of research ).Yet again research is an area that Carlow portray themselves as near equilvent to WIT but when you look into it the reality of the figures its a very different story.

The inescapable conclusion is that the Carlow IT position is being sponsored by Fine Gael and or Fianna Fail politics (both in my view) to undermine WIT and Waterford. Unless WIT retreat from this merger, with management and staff (staff union walking their future into the dirt) rejecting it, then WIT will be eviscerated.

John Cummins, Mary Butler, Marc O'Cathasaigh of the Greens will accept any outcome for party political purposes. What good will be the Waterford Crystal site if the TUSE is based in Carlow?

Mr. Cullinane playing the Sinn Fein game although his party will not commit to Waterford. Shanahan playing a strong but lone game in the Dail.

Harry Palmr

When this goes through its going to be a 2:1 ratio spend in favour of Carlow for years as they are so far behind the cutting edge.

SeanieW1977

This is a bigger issue to waterford then any North Quays. It’s the biggest issue for a generation & no one, I mean no one bar a few have the balls to tackle it or speak out.

BBM77

SeanieW1977 wrote: »

This is a bigger issue to waterford then any North Quays. It’s the biggest issue for a generation & no one, I mean no one bar a few have the balls to tackle it or speak out.

Biggest issue for a generation? The need for a university in Waterford has been going since the 1930's!

imacman

SeanieW1977 wrote: »

This is a bigger issue to waterford then any North Quays. It’s the biggest issue for a generation & no one, I mean no one bar a few have the balls to tackle it or speak out.

I think the man on the Waterford street has no idea of what's going on with the merger an the political games being played. Im sure most Waterford ordinary people think getting a TU is a good thing and assume that WIT as the larger organization is leading the campaign and the HQ will be in Waterford. If that doesn't play out then hopefully become a problem for local TDs who seem happy will watch on as WIT is being sidelined

SeanieW1977

BBM77 wrote: »

Biggest issue for a generation? The need for a university in Waterford has been going since the 1930's!

glossed over by a huge amount of manufacturing jobs here when there wasnt a job else where in the country.

not many of those jobs left, when other cities diversified we kept betting on manufacturing until it was too late

Wanderer78

SeanieW1977 wrote: »

glossed over by a huge amount of manufacturing jobs here when there wasnt a job else where in the country.

not many of those jobs left, when other cities diversified we kept betting on manufacturing until it was too late

our IT industries are growing nicely

SeanieW1977

sure are - just need the grads now to keep filling the jobs!

SeanieW1977

Update

According to minister Harris post today... Wicklow and Kildare are now in the south east and will be part of the TUSE going forward

Talk about the gift that keeps giving

Harry Palmr

Saw that.

friendlyfun

SeanieW1977 wrote: »

Update

According to minister Harris post today... Wicklow and Kildare are now in the south east and will be part of the TUSE going forward

Talk about the gift that keeps giving

This is fiasco is reading like a Waterford Whispers News article

azimuth17

Wicklow, Kildare and Laois. Press release by Simon Harris can be seen

https://www.facebook.com/MattShanahanTD/photos/a.927692077622330/1463562337368632/

imacman

Its looks like they are determined to belittle Waterford and spread the TU thinly across the regional so local parish pump politicians can say they brought a university their area.

That didn't happen in Limerick when UL established but we are expected to be thankful this decentralised lite University . Waterford is the main city in the region but what we have here is the tail wagging the dog, how much more of this can we take