Waterford University discussion

JaCrispy

Christy Browne wrote: »

I’ve just done this and I suggest you all do the same. This merger could undo decades of campaigning with the stroke of a pen. There is no chance of a University College Waterford in the next 100 years if we’re handcuffed to IT Carlow.

You think an IOT will go directly to full University status now that there are TUs? Absolutely no chance.



Like it or lump it, WIT has to merge with ITC and the new entity may have a chance at getting full university status in the future. Absolutely no chance of jumping from Tier 3 to Tier 1.

Deiseen

JaCrispy wrote: »

You think an IOT will go directly to full University status now that there are TUs? Absolutely no chance.



Like it or lump it, WIT has to merge with ITC and the new entity may have a chance at getting full university status in the future. Absolutely no chance of jumping from Tier 3 to Tier 1.

Better than jumping from Tier 3 to Tier 10 with the worst I.T. in the country.

taytobreath

We should be organising protest marches like they did with the cath lab issue. Surely the students union would be behind us, as would the lecturers and the staff of WIT. Why hasn't it been done already is what I'd like to know?

Anyone interested in starting a Facebook group highlighting the issues to see if it would gather any bit of momentum?

imacman

Deiseen wrote: »

Better than jumping from Tier 3 to Tier 10 with the worst I.T. in the country.

19th and bottom of all third level institutes 2 years in a row in the Sunday times good university guide rankings , pity there is no relegation. WIT was Institute of Technology of the year this year , top ranked IT last year ahead of Maynooth university and TU Dublin and 2nd highest ranked IT this year behind CIT but again ahead of those two universities.

spaceCreated

imacman wrote: »

19th and bottom of all third level institutes 2 years in a row in the Sunday times good university guide rankings , pity there is no relegation. WIT was Institute of Technology of the year this year , top ranked IT last year ahead of Maynooth university and TU Dublin and 2nd highest ranked IT this year behind CIT but again ahead of those two universities.

Not to worry Simon Harris who never had a job before being given charge of the multi-billion budget of the HSE and putting in place such projects as the children's hospital and maternity hospital... and also no qualifications is in charge of this process.

Lass1992

I'm lost, what happening?
How is this going to affect stem students vs let's say business students?
Thabks

spaceCreated

Lass1992 wrote: »

I'm lost, what happening?
How is this going to affect stem students vs let's say business students?
Thabks

If you find out I'm sure we'd all love to know. It looks to be a big push for votes put together with blu tack and elastic bands.

Edit: also lollipop sticks

JaCrispy

imacman wrote: »

19th and bottom of all third level institutes 2 years in a row in the Sunday times good university guide rankings , pity there is no relegation. WIT was Institute of Technology of the year this year , top ranked IT last year ahead of Maynooth university and TU Dublin and 2nd highest ranked IT this year behind CIT but again ahead of those two universities.

imacman wrote: »

Its an irish times award with no real educational criteria
2015 winner gmit ,
2014 winner carlowit
2013 winner lit
2012 winner cit
2011 winner wit
2010 winner ait
2009 winner dit
Etc
seems like the times just give this award out and carlows turn came around in 2014.The big deal they made about it was embarrassing

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Harry Palmr

Irish Times and Sunday Times are two completely different newspapers with very different levels of resources.

imacman

JaCrispy wrote: »

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I agree the Institute Technology of the year is a bit symbolic but I would rather be winning it than not . But the rankings are important, 19th and bottom of the league 2 years in a row is embarrassing for ITcarlow. Even the basket case ITTralee was ahead of them

Johnboy1951

I hope the Waterford lecturers are a lot more careful than their GMIT counterparts ...... (although one is from Waterford apparently) ...

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1214/1184422-gmit/

Wanderer78

Johnboy1951 wrote:

I hope the Waterford lecturers are a lot more careful than their GMIT counterparts ...... (although one is from Waterford apparently) ...

Its a complicated one, there's still a major stigma in regards psychological disorders, including my own, in society. there's a possibility, most complex disorders are actually undiagnosed, therefore most simply aren't aware of their issues, then if you are aware, and have been diagnosed, society isn't particularly embracing or accepting of them. This becomes internalized in the individual, leading to further complications, and those we interact with, to discuss it in 'private'. We ve a long way to go in regards accepting complex psychological disorders

BBM77

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Its a complicated one, there's still a major stigma in regards psychological disorders, including my own, in society. there's a possibility, most complex disorders are actually undiagnosed, therefore most simply aren't aware of their issues, then if you are aware, and have been diagnosed, society isn't particularly embracing or accepting of them. This becomes internalized in the individual, leading to further complications, and those we interact with, to discuss it in 'private'. We ve a long way to go in regards accepting complex psychological disorders

Not even psychological disorders. Students may have suffered toxic childhoods that destroyed their confidence and left them appearing “weird” to other people or painful when doing presentations. Often it is they may have barely heard a good word said to them their whole life. Then they hear a lecturer mocking them when they are trying to get away from the toxic experiences. It just feels to the student as confirmation of the toxic behaviours they suffered in the past and as you say leads to further complications. I know the lecturers did not mean the students to hear what they said but they should be more careful. The reality is words do hurt people.

Wanderer78

BBM77 wrote: »

Not even psychological disorders. Students may have suffered toxic childhoods that destroyed their confidence and left them appearing “weird” to other people or painful when doing presentations. Often it is they may have barely heard a good word said to them their whole life. Then they hear a lecturer mocking them when they are trying to get away from the toxic experiences. It just feels to the student as confirmation of the toxic behaviours they suffered in the past and as you say leads to further complications. I know the lecturers did not mean the students to hear what they said but they should be more careful. The reality is words do hurt people.

i agree, but believe it or not, you re actually talking about environmentally induced psychological disorders and issues, but otherwise, your right. theres an astonishing stigma attached to such issues, which ultimately manifests as 'shame', internally

Johnboy1951

BBM77 wrote: »

Not even psychological disorders. Students may have suffered toxic childhoods that destroyed their confidence and left them appearing “weird” to other people or painful when doing presentations. Often it is they may have barely heard a good word said to them their whole life. Then they hear a lecturer mocking them when they are trying to get away from the toxic experiences. It just feels to the student as confirmation of the toxic behaviours they suffered in the past and as you say leads to further complications. I know the lecturers did not mean the students to hear what they said but they should be more careful. The reality is words do hurt people.

To me this is not the real problem ........ the real problem is that the lecturers had such a conversation at all ...... that apparently it was not unusual for them to do so ......

...... and then GMIT issuing an apology for that conversation being heard ....... not an apology that the conversation took place ......

Toxic.

imacman

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

To me this is not the real problem ........ the real problem is that the lecturers had such a conversation at all ...... that apparently it was not unusual for them to do so ......

...... and then GMIT issuing an apology for that conversation being heard ....... not an apology that the conversation took place ......

Toxic.

Agreed its like a politician is who caught on a mike saying what they really feel behind the scenes.

smellyoldboot

I would hope both lecturers would lose their jobs over this because:

There will be an incoming statement from both about how "out of character" this incident was and how "deeply sorry" they are.

The reality is, far from it being the first such instance, the behaviour was so normalised and ingrained, they forgot to even check they were off mic before proceeding. It's just the first time they got caught. Disgraceful and disrespectful way for people on very healthy salaries to nurture and encourage the potential in young people to behave.

Who was perfect doing their first presentation in college or the workplace? Jesus even well into careers they still give people the heeby jeebies at the thought of having to do them.

BBM77

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

To me this is not the real problem ........ the real problem is that the lecturers had such a conversation at all ...... that apparently it was not unusual for them to do so ......

...... and then GMIT issuing an apology for that conversation being heard ....... not an apology that the conversation took place ......

Toxic.

Yeah, that is pretty poor alright.

Wanderer78

smellyoldboot wrote: »

I would hope both lecturers would lose their jobs over this because:

There will be an incoming statement from both about how "out of character" this incident was and how "deeply sorry" they are.

The reality is, far from it being the first such instance, the behaviour was so normalised and ingrained, they forgot to even check they were off mic before proceeding. It's just the first time they got caught. Disgraceful and disrespectful way for people on very healthy salaries to nurture and encourage the potential in young people to behave.

Who was perfect doing their first presentation in college or the workplace? Jesus even well into careers they still give people the heeby jeebies at the thought of having to do them.

funnily enough, sacking them would probably make the situation worse, if complex psychological disorders and issues are at play, sacking would probably effectively shut down the possibility of a more open discussion on campuses of these kind of issues, staff would be too scared to do so, and it would end up working against the interest of everyone involved, its a tricky one

Johnboy1951

Wanderer78 wrote: »

funnily enough, sacking them would probably make the situation worse, if complex psychological disorders and issues are at play, sacking would probably effectively shut down the possibility of a more open discussion on campuses of these kind of issues, staff would be too scared to do so, and it would end up working against the interest of everyone involved, its a tricky one

It is unknown (at least to me) whether or not any of the named students have any kind of issue at all.
It would be wrong to interpret the lecturers conversation as indicating anything definitive.

There are ways to promote open discussion, but this incident is surely not one of them, and hopefully some action will be taken against the 'attitude' portrayed by the lecturers, and that action is open and appropriate.

GMIT also needs to apologise for the 'attitude' of the lecturers which caused such a conversation, and not just apologise for them being caught at it.

invara

There was a very uncomfortable (being kind here) staff briefing on the TU process with both Carlow and Waterford staff on Monday morning, I am not sure it is appropriate to be talking about it on boards, but there were 300 people on the unhappy zoom call. Both organisations look very far apart still.

Johnboy1951

invara wrote: »

There was a very uncomfortable (being kind here) staff briefing on the TU process with both Carlow and Waterford staff on Monday morning, I am not sure it is appropriate to be talking about it on boards, but there were 300 people on the unhappy zoom call. Both organisations look very far apart still.

That might not be a bad thing .......

Harry Palmr

Broadly which cohort is more in favour of the TUSE project and on what basis - power/resources/prestige/other?

imacman

invara wrote: »

There was a very uncomfortable (being kind here) staff briefing on the TU process with both Carlow and Waterford staff on Monday morning, I am not sure it is appropriate to be talking about it on boards, but there were 300 people on the unhappy zoom call. Both organisations look very far apart still.

I heard a small campus was mentioned by the Carlow president as the location for the headquarters comparing it to the University of Ulster where Colraine is the UU headquarters . That's seems like a set up for a Kilkenny corporate headquarters. And this is the stuff we will hear from the Waterford politicians "its a good compromise half way between both campus" "This is bigger than Waterford and about the region "
The brewery site in Kilkenny is well under construction and looks very impressive, that's the likely location right in the heart of the city . But its ok , we get the university name over the door sure isn't that enough for us in Waterford what are we whinging about.

smellyoldboot

It's what happens when you have multiple generations of cap tippers and hand wringers left behind in a broken city. Sure what else can you do, our hands are tied etc etc.

914

invara wrote: »

There was a very uncomfortable (being kind here) staff briefing on the TU process with both Carlow and Waterford staff on Monday morning, I am not sure it is appropriate to be talking about it on boards, but there were 300 people on the unhappy zoom call. Both organisations look very far apart still.

Also an information session on the TU held via zoom for students on Monday gone. Ran by both both Prrsidents and Tom Boland.

spaceCreated

This merger is like Brexit, a lot of slogans and repition without any substance or explanation of how or why. But somehow it will work because *gestures vaguely

Wanderer78

spaceCreated wrote:

This merger is like Brexit, a lot of slogans and repition without any substance or explanation of how or why. But somehow it will work because *gestures vaguely

Best description of this So far, what a train wreck

invara

Interesting piece in the News & Star about how Tom Boland was appointed. Based on an FOI, it appears Carlow were not consulted on his appointment, even though he claims to have been employed by them. They also did not have a Governing Body in place when he was recruited. All very odd.

JimWinters

invara wrote: »

Interesting piece in the News & Star about how Tom Boland was appointed. Based on an FOI, it appears Carlow were not consulted on his appointment, even though he claims to have been employed by them. They also did not have a Governing Body in place when he was recruited. All very odd.

Is the article online? At first I was under the impression he was a civil servant but then I heard his company https://www.bhassociates.eu/ were brought in to run the merger. I take it that it’s another “jobs for the boys” arrangement?