Waterford University discussion

azimuth17

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

My thought on that is that as this is not the forum which will require a vote to be taken, there is no need (or real benefit) in providing all that background info to those empty seats.
That kind of info is easily diseminated in another manner.
Heck a flyer to each representative would get as much (and more?) attention!

I do not expect to see what I described to happen.

The important thing is to get the information that Mr Shanahan spoke about to the Taoiseach on the permanent record of the Dail. Its there forever. A flyer like all pub guff is ephemeral. That is the point of representative democracy which many people in Waterford (forgive me) don't really understand. We have rarely been a "political" people.

Johnboy1951

azimuth17 wrote: »

The important thing is to get the information that Mr Shanahan spoke about to the Taoiseach on the permanent record of the Dail. Its there forever. A flyer like all pub guff is ephemeral. That is the point of representative democracy which many people in Waterford (forgive me) don't really understand. We have rarely been a "political" people.

More important than getting an answer to the question on the record?

imacman

azimuth17 wrote: »

The important thing is to get the information that Mr Shanahan spoke about to the Taoiseach on the permanent record of the Dail. Its there forever. A flyer like all pub guff is ephemeral. That is the point of representative democracy which many people in Waterford (forgive me) don't really understand. We have rarely been a "political" people.

On the record or not its just tokenism which allows him to say he raised it in the Dail . This merger is going to happen whether we like it or not , Waterford Tds need to now focus on making sure that Waterford as the larger organization is the senior partner in this merger with the headquarters in Waterford and a new independent president appointed.

azimuth17

imacman wrote: »

On the record or not its just tokenism which allows him to say he raised it in the Dail . This merger is going to happen whether we like it or not , Waterford Tds need to now focus on making sure that Waterford as the larger organization is the senior partner in this merger with the headquarters in Waterford and a new independent president appointed.

Jeez Imacman I feel your pain. What is Shanahan to do, not raise it in the Dail? Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. The reality is the process is being driven by FF, FG, Greens and SF all of whom suggest it is the only game in town. In that sense it seems inevitable although I do not agree with it. FF/FG south eastern politics are driving the TUSE. Government and Department and HEA want it and Tom Boland will try deliver it. Recent funding decisions for Carlow versus WIT have been very skewed towards Carlow. I would accept it if the HQ is designated for WIT and if the resources to deliver a university of scale in Waterford, which can compete with existing universities is delivered. Sadly the multi campus farce with Carlow being treated as equal to WIT when it obviously is not, looks like being inevitable unless WIT pulls out.

Harry Palmr

What would happen if WIT actually called the Depts bluff and said we're not going to be party to this? Could they just sack the board and put in a cabal of yes men?

914

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What would happen if WIT actually called the Depts bluff and said we're not going to be party to this? Could they just sack the board and put in a cabal of yes men?

You could probably wave bye bye to the new engineering building, see further reduction in funding for WIT.

See massive funding pumped into ITC while ITC create campuses in KK amd Wex.

WIT go ahead with the merger, we're fecked.

WIT pull out we're fecked.

I would encourage everyone to contact our five representivities on the issue with your concerns views etc.

Complaining on boards won't solve it, contacting our reps won't solve it but if enough people contact them it might encourage them to start raising the issue in the Dail and actually get them behind supporting WIT and not this balls of a merger.

imacman

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What would happen if WIT actually called the Depts bluff and said we're not going to be party to this? Could they just sack the board and put in a cabal of yes men?

The Governing body is appointed by the government so they will approve what ever the government want .The executive which includes the head's of the academic schools and other managers have no real power .The other two main people who have any power are the president and the chair of the governing body .
The chair is again a government appointee and is currently the ex mayor of Wexford who has strong ties to Carlow as a result of the campus there . That leaves the president who can go against the chair and the governing body but will be out voted and also come under massive political pressure . So as I have already said its a done deal and we need to make the best of it and get our politicians to fight for WIT as the HQ and senior partner of the merger.

Harry Palmr

I was of course never expecting a rebellion on any basis! As you say it's a done deal.

This is even more speculative but if the Carlow campus was seen to be a failing part of the TUSE in say 5/10 years and the body was losing high end tie ins with private enterprise, EU grants for top level research (H2020 etc) and even "proper" Universities would the Waterford end be able to make a case to dissolve the organisation I wonder?

914

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I was of course never expecting a rebellion on any basis! As you say it's a done deal.

This is even more speculative but if the Carlow campus was seen to be a failing part of the TUSE in say 5/10 years and the body was losing high end tie ins with private enterprise, EU grants for top level research (H2020 etc) and even "proper" Universities would the Waterford end be able to make a case to dissolve the organisation I wonder?

I doubt it. I would say once your in your in and this is my big concern

Dunmoreroader

Oh for a Deise-orientated Chuck Feeny type to come along with a couple of hundred Mil and say to the government " call off this TUSE sh1tshow and have this for an independent UW"......
....Al Hokair?

914

I'm not even bothered about the name university. If WIT was allowed to come under the HEA allowing them to provide for funding as the same level as other Universities that would do.

Look at MIT in the states. I'm not saying we become like MIT, but having proper funding and WIT to reach the levels of UL UCC etc.....

I don't see anywhere that the TU's can applying for the required level of funding so have no idea how this is going to be more of a benefit as to what we currently have in south east

Harry Palmr

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Oh for a Deise-orientated Chuck Feeny type to come along with a couple of hundred Mil and say to the government " call off this TUSE sh1tshow and have this for an independent UW"......
....Al Hokair?

This is a good reason to make sure the NQ and Michael St. are a success. It might keep them interested in Waterford beyond these projects. Unfortunately the only area outside retail/property they have interest in is healthcare.

Wanderer78

Harry Palmr wrote:

This is a good reason to make sure the NQ and Michael St. are a success. It might keep them interested in Waterford beyond these projects. Unfortunately the only area outside retail/property they have interest in is healthcare.

The only thing these projects will truly do is drive up property and land prices, but It will be impressive to see it all unfold

smellyoldboot

Wanderer78 wrote: »

The only thing these projects will truly do is drive up property and land prices, but It will be impressive to see it all unfold

Property in Ireland will only ever go up while it is driven by government policy and ideology. Private investment has very little effect.

Wanderer78

smellyoldboot wrote:

Property in Ireland will only ever go up while it is driven by government policy and ideology. Private investment has very little effect.

Partly true, the main cause of property and land prices rising is the availability of credit to the market, current developments have just opened Pandoras box there, I think it's already starting to happen, property prices just rose by 20k last quarter, probably due to recent announcements. Credit comes from private sector banks, used by private sector developers, this is exactly what happened in the last boom

smellyoldboot

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Partly true, the main cause of property and land prices rising is the availability of credit to the market, current developments have just opened Pandoras box there, I think it's already starting to happen, property prices just rose by 20k last quarter, probably due to recent announcements. Credit comes from private sector banks, used by private sector developers, this is exactly what happened in the last boom

The 20k rise is more or less in tandem with a 10k increase in government subsidy towards new homes, allied to there being absolutely no middle market in Ireland: you either qualify for very very limited public housing, or are thrown the wolves of the private market, with no stepping stones in between. This creates a further premium on available properties and a very effective price floor.

Worse again any properties toward the bottom of the price scale may be bid on by government bodies (councils/housing associations) who ideologically oppose building units themselves, forcing further pressure upward in the market.

Any effects from private investment are miniscule when you have multiple government hands already in the mix guiding prices in their preferred direction.

Wanderer78

smellyoldboot wrote:

Any effects from private investment are miniscule when you have multiple government hands already in the mix guiding prices in their preferred direction.

False, it's clearly visible from data, particularly from the previous boom, what effect increasing the credit supply does to markets, the hundreds of millions of credit based developments, is opening Pandoras box again, regarding property and land prices in the region, expect them to rise significantly mainly due to this increase in the money supply in the region via credit creation, from the private sector

smellyoldboot

Wanderer78 wrote: »

False, it's clearly visible from data, particularly from the previous boom, what effect increasing the credit supply does to markets, the hundreds of millions of credit based developments, is opening Pandoras box again, regarding property and land prices in the region, expect them to rise significantly mainly due to this increase in the money supply in the region via credit creation, from the private sector

It's pure supply restriction causing Irish price increases. Most Irish credit institutions offer credit at rates, that in any normal functioning market would indicate they actually don't want the rates to be taken up. Like a red flag rate that says "go elsewhere", we do t want custom.

Advertise 3-4% mortgage rates in Continental Europe and see how many takers you get....

Wanderer78

smellyoldboot wrote:

It's pure supply restriction causing Irish price increases. Most Irish credit institutions offer credit at rates, that in any normal functioning market would indicate they actually don't want the rates to be taken up. Like a red flag rate that says "go elsewhere", we do t want custom.

Supply restrictions are only an element of price increases, this is where mainstream economics breaks down, it doesn't realise or accepts the implications of credit in the system, the fact that banks simply creates this out of thin air, mainstream believes banks are 'intermediates', simply moving money around. This is completely untrue, they are in fact creating the majority of the money supply in the form of credit, hence the term 'Credit crisis'. Recent development announcements have just opened Pandoras box in the region regarding the credit supply to the region, expect problems ahead.

imacman

Much as I like a discussion on property prices and capitalism this isn't the thread for that .

Harry Palmr

Every thread is a soapbox for Wanderer these days!

Wanderer78

Harry Palmr wrote:

Every thread is a soapbox for Wanderer these days!

I like soap, it keeps me clean

Deiseen

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I like soap, it keeps me clean

Good to see you are laughing because no one else is.

Please stop.

Aquos76

It’s clear to see that Wanderer78 is starting to get a reputation here, as has been pointed out already, please stop trying to steer all these threads is a particular direction. If you want to start a thread on your economic views and views on the property market, then feel free, but let’s try and keep this one on topic and not have it end up like the original north quays one.

Wanderer78

Aquos76 wrote:

It’s clear to see that Wanderer78 is starting to get a reputation here, as has been pointed out already, please stop trying to steer all these threads is a particular direction. If you want to start a thread on your economic views and views on the property market, then feel free, but let’s try and keep this one on topic and not have it end up like the original north quays one.

Tis all interwined believe it or not, was only talking to a local business owner about all this recently, and both of us came to the same conclusion, why isn't any local journalist writing about all of this stuff!

Aquos76

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Tis all interwined believe it or not, was only talking to a local business owner about all this recently, and both of us came to the same conclusion, why isn't any local journalist writing about all of this stuff!

There you go so, put your thoughts into an email and send them in to the editors of both local newspapers along with Waterford Today and see will they publish it in their letters to the editor section for you.

Wanderer78

Aquos76 wrote: »

There you go so, put your thoughts into an email and send them in to the editors of both local newspapers along with Waterford Today and see will they publish it in their letters to the editor section for you.

boards is a public forum, whereby public opinion should be allowed to be expressed with respect, to all, including you, but that also means, you must also be respectful to the other users

Aquos76

Wanderer78 wrote: »

boards is a public forum, whereby public opinion should be allowed to be expressed with respect, to all, including you, but that also means, you must also be respectful to the other users

Where have I been disrespectful to you? The amount of reported posts that come in about threats going off topic is unreal, you aren’t the only person who I’ve had to call out, but your posts do tend to get reported more often than others.

As I’ve said previously, I have absolutely no issue with you our your views and whether I agree or disagree with them is irrelevant, my issue is when it takes threads of topic. It has been suggested to you on numerous occasions within different threats to start a new thread on a particular topic if you want to keep a conversation going.

Now, here we are taking this thread off topic again, so if you want to continue this via PM, feel free.

invara

For anyone who still thinks the TU is going to transform the region, Athlone and Limerick have one now....
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/284dd-minister-harris-welcomes-application-for-tu-status-from-athlone-and-limerick-institutes-of-technology/

UCD has declared three days of mourning!

JimWinters

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Tis all interwined believe it or not, was only talking to a local business owner about all this recently, and both of us came to the same conclusion, why isn't any local journalist writing about all of this stuff!

If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. You think everything is intertwined but in reality you keep steering every conversation on here towards the one area you are clearly passionate about. That passion isn't a bad thing but it seems to be moving to an unhealthy place if it is taking over your conversations in real life as well as every single thread here.



I have tried to engage with you on the topic in the past but you've ignored my points to keep on about the same things over and over again. We get your point, we agree with your points but there isn't anything we can do about it on the Waterford forum on Boards. If you want to affect change, this is not the place to do it unfortunately...